I believe that she asked us to be honest and descriptive. Who are YOU to judge Virgil's reaction. She wants to know people's reactions...if she didn't want to hear the truth, she wouldn't have asked the way that she asked...Originally Posted by OrphanPip
Les Miserables,
Volume 1, Fifth Book, Chapter 3
Remember this, my friends: there are no such things as bad plants or bad men. There are only bad cultivators.
Because this is a discussion forum, presumably Virgil accepts that his opinions are placed up for debate, just as mine are, and are open to being challenged? Who knows maybe I'll even have my opinion changed.
Edit: Or maybe the formation of a thread specifically about discussing polyamorous relations would be called for.
Last edited by OrphanPip; 01-28-2010 at 12:47 AM.
"If the national mental illness of the United States is megalomania, that of Canada is paranoid schizophrenia."
- Margaret Atwood
Thumbs up to you. You said exactly what I was thinking.
And Bienvenu, yes everyone has expressed their true and honest opinion and each poster has a right to be heard. Orphan is merely responding to Virgil's admittingly appaulling remarks, not once does he seem to say that Virgil shouldn't have posted. He's merely responding with his own opinion, which I deeply agree with.
Ack, all of this stuff has made me real pissy. I'm going to bed.
The Moments of Dominion
That happen on the Soul
And leave it with a Discontent
Too exquisite — to tell —
-Emily Dickinson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVW8GCnr9-I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckGIvr6WVw4
"My question is: if I were your daughter/sister/best friend/aunt/neice/grandmother/granddaughter/coworker...whatever...what would you think if you found this out about me? If this idea angers/upsets/disgusts you, please, be honest and descriptive, as I want badly to understand people's aversion to what has become a very happy part of my life"
The subject matter is NOT whether this is right/wrong. The matter for discussion is what people's aversion is. We ought to stick to that. It seems that you are coming down on Virgil's opinions...his aversions to this situation. Maybe I am wrong but it seems that you are becoming defensive of the situation.
Les Miserables,
Volume 1, Fifth Book, Chapter 3
Remember this, my friends: there are no such things as bad plants or bad men. There are only bad cultivators.
Maybe I'm crazy, but the perceived morality of the relationship is clearly an issue for Virgil, thus it is clearly related to the aversion some individuals may feel towards this. Seriously, how do you expect me not to be defensive when you directly address me with accusations of being judgmental of Virgil. On top of that, you include very thinly veiled slights at people who support her decision to be polyamorous by suggesting that they have a vested interest in protecting their "lifestyles from judgment". I presume Virgil is quite willing, and able, to defend his position or he wouldn't bother to respond. I'm hardly "coming down on Virgil's opinions", as if I'm bullying him and insulting his intelligence. I wouldn't bother to articulate an argument against his opinion if I did not respect his right to have one.
"If the national mental illness of the United States is megalomania, that of Canada is paranoid schizophrenia."
- Margaret Atwood
Ok...but I just wanted to point out that...according to what I saw here...that our purpose isn't to hash out whether it is right or wrong, but to state our opinions/feelings that this individual may be confronted with. She will no doubt be confronted with people like me, Virgil, and you. Why don't we just leave it at that?
Les Miserables,
Volume 1, Fifth Book, Chapter 3
Remember this, my friends: there are no such things as bad plants or bad men. There are only bad cultivators.
Fair enough, I'm willing to leave it as it is.
Last edited by OrphanPip; 01-28-2010 at 02:07 PM.
"If the national mental illness of the United States is megalomania, that of Canada is paranoid schizophrenia."
- Margaret Atwood
This is true of the vast majority of monogamous relationships as well, so does it really matter? as quoted by OrphanPip-----sorry forgot how to do the quotes.
I think it does manner. The lady asked what my adversion would be. I discarded for the purposes of this forum my PERSONAL beliefs about it which oyu may well guess and rather decided to point out the trap she and her companions are oh so slowly falling into. SOMEONE will get hurt. Might be the lady, might be one of the guys but sooner or later human nature will out and this lovely little house of cards will crumple intothe dust. Fully agree with you about monogamous relationships BUT that isn't the issue here. My adversion is simply that one person will be eventually sold short--won;t even get into the consequences of the other guy wondering who might be next on the plate or the young lady thinking maybe a third might be permissable. So it matters. Right now they just don't see it.
Well, Pip has the scientific and anthropological (edit: and moral) angle of this debate pretty much cinched. I'll just say that Virgil and Bienvenu are being foolishly Eurocentric. Just because in your culture it is common to do things in a certain way doesn't mean that it is the best and only way that things should be done. I wish that you would stop being so hateful and open your mind. We were asked to help, not to condemn or ridicule.
Furthermore Virgil, it is extremely shocking to me that you are behaving so disrespectfully. Yes, your opinions were asked for; that doesn't mean that you have to be so mean. We were asked to show some sensitivity and kindness. In what way were your remarks constructive? This is someone's real life that we're talking about here.
I wonder, would you have spoken out so brazenly if this were a case of one male with multiple female partners? I sincerely doubt it. Oh, you probably would have said something judgemental and derogatory, but not so vehemently. Ugh, now I feel ill.
Pip's argument stands. There are problems in every monogamous relationship. In almost every case, one of the parties is "sold short." Someone is always hurt. So what makes a polygynandrous relationship any different/worse? Besides, she's fine with her relationship. That's not going to change. The issue is whether or not she's going to tell her family and friends, not whether or not she's going to abandon her lifestyle choice. I guess your answer would be not to let the cat out of the bag.
Last edited by JuniperWoolf; 01-28-2010 at 05:46 AM.
__________________
"Personal note: When I was a little kid my mother told me not to stare into the sun. So once when I was six, I did. At first the brightness was overwhelming, but I had seen that before. I kept looking, forcing myself not to blink, and then the brightness began to dissolve. My pupils shrunk to pinholes and everything came into focus and for a moment I understood. The doctors didn't know if my eyes would ever heal."
-Pi
Ok, Chances are, in the long run, this relationship won't work out but neither will half of conventional marriages.
Even though I'm pretty liberal if I was a friend/family member my first concern would be for your happiness and well being. I would question if this is truly working for you and the two guys, since you've already confirmed you're happy I would trust your judgement.
As for the family, if they're like mine there would be a lot of hand wringing, praying, and drama but eventually they will get over it. (At least that was what happened when my cousin came out) The big question is being yourself and being honest with family and friends worth the risk that some won't accept it? What's the worst that could happen?
I'm just wondering for those that have a problem with this lifestyle. What would you do if your sister/daughter/mother came to you and told you they were in this type of relationship? Seriously, what could you do? Aside from expressing your displeasure and perhaps counseling your daughter/sister don't you kind of have to accept the situation?
Last edited by papayahed; 01-28-2010 at 08:57 AM.
Do, or do not. There is no try. - Yoda
I my opinion is if the person is this poly relationship, that all 3 happy then ok,
as person I would hope to be open minded enough, if you happy then that fine, even if I do agree with they lifestyle but it up to them as long don't try push their beliefs of they relationship on to me.
If booted was other footed and it was man in similar relationship, most men would consider a good thing and so would most friends.
Being honest does not mean being hurtful or cruel in our posts.
~
Please do not personalise your arguments.
Posts containing personal remarks will be removed without any further notice.
~
~
"It is not that I am mad; it is only that my head is different from yours.”
~
What I mean to said is' do not agree they lifestyle choice so I am to judge'.
Perhaps I have misunderstood what was requested. I was only speaking for myself AS IF I was a friend/family member and my first reactions tend to be of the warning nature. Whether she tells family members or not is really up to her. I am presuming she is at least 18 so as an adult it's down to her comfort levels. Way too much emphasis on the monagamy here. I still don't see what that has ANYTHING to do with my reply which if read carefully ONLY focused on the THREE members of the relationship and not on any others be they single, divorced or cousins. I really did not have any adversions to her relationship--sounded rather tame and dare I say it--banal. I have known some very interesting relationships over the years--will have to work a LOT harder then that to shock me anymore. So whether the cat stays in the bag or no is up to her. My reaction was on the quality of the cat. I could have gone for quite a bit about commitment issues but I didn;t sense any advice in that area was requested.
Last edited by mtpspur; 01-28-2010 at 06:03 PM.
Thank you Bien. If people want to spit in the face of moral decorum, then they have to expect a reaction by the majority of those that feel those morals mean something. You want to do your own thing, then do it. You're free to do it. But I am free to have a judgmental opinion of that person and if I want to ostracize that person from my circle I'm free to do so. I have a right to my opinion, my free speech, and my free associations. If that person person feels slighted, then don't spit in the face of moral decorum.
I was thinking of this question today, and frankly I find it impossible to believe this has been going on for three years. I think it's all made up.
LET THERE BE LIGHT
"Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena
My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/
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