i agree philosophy should be separated from sun worshiping and wishing (ie..religion and faith). good call hoope.Originally Posted by hoope
somewhat more seriously though, i can think of a few philosophers that wrote as if they found 'it.' who's to say if they lived like they wrote though. i heard Kant was quite the guy
sidenote: anthropomorphism is blasphemy of "it", sort of. sometimes not though. emphasis sometimes. usually is
Last edited by billyjack; 03-05-2009 at 02:07 AM.
The message of the original story isn't,"This is why god exists". The message is more along the lines of "come to god, because he must exist". If so which god? From what I recall, "All gods where immortal"
Whether a god or set of gods exist is moot. Which truth do we choose to realize? usually it's the one we're indoctrinated in at birth. Sometimes folks research other religions and find they're not all that dissimilar. Although, here's how general Philosophy and Religions differ:
Philosophy is figuring out how to live. Religion is being told how to live. Philosophy is focused on this plane of existence . Religion goes beyond the mortal coil, either as a punishing or a rewarding system. Philosophy proposes rewards in this life. Religion promises rewards in this life and beyond. Philosophy builds itself on premise. Religion builds itself on tradition.
So which do you take? A proposal or a promise? And if you chose the promise which one? There are more than enough out there to provide enough pleasure and pain for lifetimes to come.
This very question is why there is conflict in the world. "He can't be right because that would make me wrong". Really, what does it matter whether a god truly exists or not? Religion should be a means to a healthy lifestyle or it's masochistic. If you live righteously you'll usually be considered a good person, and end up in heaven (One of the christian varieties or nirvana or Firdaus or one of the Lokas or...). Otherwise the religion brings conflict instead of peace, and is hypocritical in some capacity.
What I'm saying is it's not if god exists, but how you believe 'it' would want us to exist. If you live well, you're a winner either way.
but grounds for faith can be very philosophical. But you are right Krym, religion is the ages of manmade tradition indoctrinating its dogma into us all. Religion is the group you belong to, it is your community, the word suggests it - you conform. Our cognitive mechanisms freely accept irrational non-doubting explanations for design.
Yet we as humans possess the inner religious struggle between melancholy and happiness, and trance is our cognitive mechanism. Fear and pain, the need for a powerful parent to care for us, the obsessional nature of ritual, and the hypnotic state a community can induce are all factors of religion. Philosophy can strip this bare of false axioms, or it can back it up. at the end of the day you are thinking for yourself with philosophy.
peace.
Last edited by Judas130; 03-09-2009 at 04:00 PM. Reason: uncalled for.
Judas that post is objectionable on many levels. It is uncalled for, baseless, and vulgar.
Last edited by NikolaiI; 03-09-2009 at 01:18 AM.
apologies, it is edited now, to an extent...i hit a chord maybe? forgive me.
Last edited by Judas130; 03-10-2009 at 04:26 PM.
I don't really believe in god, and I'm not offended. It wasn't meant to insult anyone, I'm sure. Chillax
God must exist, and without God existing nothing exist. We are manifestations of God; in fact we are different forms of God. We coexist or our existence is God's existence in a different way.
How can water exist without a container, and so does God exist and God is the container of this universe and all of us.
Realizing the existence of God demands of us a certain quality or else we fail to comprehend this subtlety and few can understand it.
God is a process. God is not a thing, or entity or physicality at all as we generally tend to conceive of. We associate God with issues of heaven, otherworldliness, something extraordinaire, some entity that is unrealisable in this part of the world.
God permeates through everything.
“Those who seek to satisfy the mind of man by hampering it with ceremonies and music and affecting charity and devotion have lost their original nature””
“If water derives lucidity from stillness, how much more the faculties of the mind! The mind of the sage, being in repose, becomes the mirror of the universe, the speculum of all creation.
I agree with everything you've said. God permeates the whole of creation, into every atom.
God is the source of all spiritual and material worlds. God is Truth, the source of Light, of all love, bliss, knowledge, peace, renunciation, wealth, fame, power, etc.. God is the source of reality.
The source of all worlds, all reality, is within the heart of every living being. The center of the universe, as the Daoists say, is within the heart of every being.
We're seprate because of our desire, our consciousness, our ego. We associate ourselves with gross, subtle and mental consciousness. But we are none of these. Our pure essence is non-different from our source. How can we be different from our source? And yet due to ignorance we create layers and layers of falsity.
We feel like we are separate from reality but we are not. God is within us, the source. How can any living being not have the potential for enlightenment? We all do. Enlightenment is simply enacting our true nature, our pure essence, our true self, our source. It is spontaneous love. It is fearlessness, happiness, peace, and knowledge.
A cute story, from my point of view, very flawed logic.
Pain and suffering and death are part of life for every living thing, not just human beings. God doesn't inflict pain, nor does it take it away and confer health and happiness. Pain and suffering simply "are."
I agree with the things blazeofglory wrote, but of course, I think everyone has the right to believe whatever they want. A person's belief is his belief and cannot be changed by others.
but people who suffer in this life and are patient and there suffering does'nt make them disbelivers will be awarded in the next life , they will go to heaven. All prophets suffered, didn't they? suffering is a test, and belief needs to be tested.
Nice try! How do you know this? Have you passed to the nether world and have come back to enlighten us? Maybe, my guess is though, it’s conditioned thought. People are trained to believe in suffering, it’s an addiction, along with the cure for that self imposed suffering. There are many mystics throughout history who didn’t spent their lives suffering, but then again, organized dogma can’t use them to sell their medicine.
Religion has no interest in showing the cure, it’s only interested in selling the medicine.
Yes, I will agree with you on one point, but not in the way you intended. Belief in deed needs to be tested! The testing needs to be, why you believe in anything at all? What is the reason for your belief? Is it only because it’s what you have been told to do and think?
It’s a good thing that someone didn’t think the world was flat or that everything revolved around the earth. Its unfortunate the sheep, when in large enough numbers can indeed stampede the wolf.
"doesnt that trouble anyone? the idea that god might be ****ing with our heads? i have trouble sleeping with that knowledge... some prankster god running around.
i think god put YOU here to test MY faith, dude" (b.h.)
I do not believe that God is just as thing. God is a Person with intelligence, power, personality, and emotion. If the universe was created (science indicates that it was) and if it was created with design (again...there is a design to it) then Someone with an intelligence greater than the design must have created it. The same can be said about mankind. The human (and animal forms) are created with such an intricate design, then the Creator must have more intelligence than is reflected in the design. The same arguments can be made about the love that is reflected in mankind. A greater love must be found in the Creator.
Les Miserables,
Volume 1, Fifth Book, Chapter 3
Remember this, my friends: there are no such things as bad plants or bad men. There are only bad cultivators.
Dear grotto, Yes,I have been told to believe in God when I was a child. I was a good believer until I was 22, when I started to ask questions about all what I have taken for granted for the past years. I discovered that believing in God and life after death answers all questions about man and existence and his last destiny, while suspecting all that doesn't answer anything. I don't want to be astray again after I arrived to the truth at last. And there is a question to you: Have you ever died and discovered that there is nothing after death and you have come back to enlighten us?
The Inner Fields
by Sri Aurobindo
There is a brighter ether than this blue
Pretence of an enveloping heavenly vault,
Royaler investiture than this massed assault
Of emerald rapture pearled with tears of dew.
Immortal spaces of cerulean hue
Are in our reach and fields without this fault
Of drab brown earth and streams that never halt
In their deep murmur which white flowers strew
Floating like stars upon a strip of sky.
This world behind is made of truer stuff
Than the manufactured tissue of earth's grace.
There we can walk and see the gods go by
And sip from Hebe's cup nectar enough
To make for us heavenly limbs and deathless face.
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