Richard II - Act II

[Scheherazade]

Please post your comments and questions in this thread.


Scene I


Scene II


Scene III


Scene IV

[lugdunum]

I've finished Act II and must say that my opinion of RII is getting worse and worse. Not only did he come across as wishy washy as Virgil said, but he's also selfish and so full of himself! and, may I add, not the best at making the right decisions!

I particularly liked that part:

KING RICHARD II
Can sick men play so nicely with their names?

JOHN OF GAUNT
No, misery makes sport to mock itself:
Since thou dost seek to kill my name in me,
I mock my name, great king, to flatter thee.

KING RICHARD II
Should dying men flatter with those that live?

JOHN OF GAUNT
No, no, men living flatter those that die.

KING RICHARD II
Thou, now a-dying, say'st thou flatterest me.

JOHN OF GAUNT
O, no! thou diest, though I the sicker be.

KING RICHARD II
I am in health, I breathe, and see thee ill.

JOHN OF GAUNT
Now He that made me knows I see thee ill;
Ill in myself to see, and in thee seeing ill.
Thy death-bed is no lesser than thy land
Wherein thou liest in reputation sick;
And thou, too careless patient as thou art,
Commit'st thy anointed body to the cure
Of those physicians that first wounded thee:
A thousand flatterers sit within thy crown,
Whose compass is no bigger than thy head;
And yet, incaged in so small a verge,
The waste is no whit lesser than thy land.
O, had thy grandsire with a prophet's eye
Seen how his son's son should destroy his sons,
From forth thy reach he would have laid thy shame,
Deposing thee before thou wert possess'd,
Which art possess'd now to depose thyself.
Why, cousin, wert thou regent of the world,
It were a shame to let this land by lease;
But for thy world enjoying but this land,
Is it not more than shame to shame it so?
Landlord of England art thou now, not king:
Thy state of law is bondslave to the law; And thou--

KING RICHARD II
A lunatic lean-witted fool,
Presuming on an ague's privilege,
Darest with thy frozen admonition
Make pale our cheek, chasing the royal blood
With fury from his native residence.
Now, by my seat's right royal majesty,
Wert thou not brother to great Edward's son,
This tongue that runs so roundly in thy head
Should run thy head from thy unreverent shoulders.

JOHN OF GAUNT
O, spare me not, my brother Edward's son,
For that I was his father Edward's son;
That blood already, like the pelican,
Hast thou tapp'd out and drunkenly caroused:
My brother Gloucester, plain well-meaning soul,
Whom fair befal in heaven 'mongst happy souls!
May be a precedent and witness good
That thou respect'st not spilling Edward's blood:
Join with the present sickness that I have;
And thy unkindness be like crooked age,
To crop at once a too long wither'd flower.
Live in thy shame, but die not shame with thee!
These words hereafter thy tormentors be!
Convey me to my bed, then to my grave:
Love they to live that love and honour have.

I realize it's a long quote but I just enjoyed the whole passage. I really like Gaunt, at least in that part (and if it wasn't for what Virgil mentioned, that in real history, Gaunt wasn't exactly the most loyal kind...)

But anyway, first I liked the little jokes about flattering the King because Richard seems to be the kind to listen to people flattering him all day without ever asking himself whether it may or may not be true.

Then I like the play on words with "ill": I don't see well, I'm sick end I see evil in you

And finally I like the part where RII loses it and calls the other lunatic lean-witted fool. I think that we can see R.'s real nature there, someone so full of himself that he cannot stand any negative remarks.
And then later on, we'll discover his methids to get money and we'll realize what kind of King he is.

Just one doubt though, the Duke of York, who's side is he on? Because it's not very clear to me. Can someone explain? Or maybe we find out later?

[mayneverhave]

Just one doubt though, the Duke of York, who's side is he on? Because it's not very clear to me. Can someone explain? Or maybe we find out later?

The Duke of York's loyalties fluctuate during the play - as you'll see later. What Shakespeare is doing with York is a microcosm of the play's broader theme, that of the justification of the kingship. As Richard remains the de jure king and Henry steps up as the de facto king, York's dilemma becomes the play's dilemma.

[Quark]

Just one doubt though, the Duke of York, who's side is he on?

The Duke of York's loyalties fluctuate during the play - as you'll see later. What Shakespeare is doing with York is a microcosm of the play's broader theme, that of the justification of the kingship. As Richard remains the de jure king and Henry steps up as the de facto king, York's dilemma becomes the play's dilemma.

I think mayneverhave is right to say that York's position changes throughout the play. He begins act two as a staunch defender of Richard, but by the end he's accepted Bullingbrook as king. In this, York reflects the change in power from one leader to the other. He even shows up at important moments when Bullingbrook is gaining influence: the landing of the rebels, the exchange of the crown, and the new king's first appearance in society. While York's sympathies appear to be with Richard, he feels powerless to stop Bullingbrook's rebellion. Instead of resisting the change, he decides to "remain as neuter" (II, iii 159). One might see this as the fatal flaw of not only York, but also of Richard and his group. Gaunt, Richard, and York all seem to lack resolve. When ill-fortune befalls them, it completely unmans them and they can't react. As mayneverhas points out, there is a dilemma over who has the right to rule, but York doesn't contemplate the situation and react. Rather, he merely gives in because he's outnumbered. This is where I may disagree with mayneverhas when he says that York "fluctuates" and is a "microcosm" of the dilemma. I don't think York fluctuates, but instead reflect the shift in power of the two kings--which is pretty much a steady move one way. Nor do I think he is a "microcosm" of the dilemma, because this would give too much weight to a character who doesn't have much to say in this play. York's role is rather functional, and I don't think he has much to add to the themes.

[Virgil]

It took me three reads of Act II to get it, but i finally have got it. For those that are having trouble here's a thumbnail of it:
Scene 1 - We see through Gaunt's eyes the deterioration of the state; Gaunt dies and Richard takes his assests.
Scene 2 - We learn that Richard has gone off to Ireland, even though the kingdom is in dissolution; we learn that Bolingbroke has come back to reclaim his father's property in violation of his banishment.
Scene 3 - Bolingbroke has returned and is coordinating his forces to challenge the king.
Scene 4 - The King's absence has weakened his support, even instilling a thought that he is dead.

As we can see the Richard II is a screw up.

There are a number of places to highlight. Perhaps I'll come back with more, but I think in this post I would like to highlight the fine speeches of Gaunt in scene 1. He is a dying man and he knows it and whatever the time gap that has occured between Acts 1 & 2 may be, in the iterim he has completely lost respect for Richard. Obviously the kingdom is falling apart and its through Richard's mismanagement. The scen opens with the two wise men of the play, Gaunt and York. Throughout these quotes, please admire the brilliant poetry that Shakespeare puts in Gaunt's mouth.

JOHN OF GAUNT
Will the king come, that I may breathe my last
In wholesome counsel to his unstaid youth?

DUKE OF YORK
Vex not yourself, nor strive not with your breath;
For all in vain comes counsel to his ear.

JOHN OF GAUNT
O, but they say the tongues of dying men
Enforce attention like deep harmony:
Where words are scarce, they are seldom spent in vain,
For they breathe truth that breathe their words in pain.
He that no more must say is listen'd more
Than they whom youth and ease have taught to glose;
More are men's ends mark'd than their lives before:
The setting sun, and music at the close,
As the last taste of sweets, is sweetest last,
Writ in remembrance more than things long past:
Though Richard my life's counsel would not hear,
My death's sad tale may yet undeaf his ear.

Gaunt is going to speak the truth because there is nothing left that the King can do to him: "Where words are scarce, they are seldom spent in vain,/For they breathe truth that breathe their words in pain." But even in the end he wishes to help the King: "My death's sad tale may yet undeaf his ear."

Gaunt continues and this contains one of Shakespeare's greatest passages:

JOHN OF GAUNT
Methinks I am a prophet new inspired
And thus expiring do foretell of him:
His rash fierce blaze of riot cannot last,
For violent fires soon burn out themselves;
Small showers last long, but sudden storms are short;
He tires betimes that spurs too fast betimes;
With eager feeding food doth choke the feeder:
Light vanity, insatiate cormorant,
Consuming means, soon preys upon itself.
This royal throne of kings, this scepter'd isle,
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
This other Eden, demi-paradise,
This fortress built by Nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war,
This happy breed of men, this little world,
This precious stone set in the silver sea,
Which serves it in the office of a wall,
Or as a moat defensive to a house,
Against the envy of less happier lands,
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England,
This nurse, this teeming womb of royal kings,
Fear'd by their breed and famous by their birth,
Renowned for their deeds as far from home,
For Christian service and true chivalry,
As is the sepulchre in stubborn Jewry,
Of the world's ransom, blessed Mary's Son,
This land of such dear souls, this dear dear land,
Dear for her reputation through the world,
Is now leased out, I die pronouncing it,
Like to a tenement or pelting farm:
England, bound in with the triumphant sea
Whose rocky shore beats back the envious siege
Of watery Neptune, is now bound in with shame,
With inky blots and rotten parchment bonds:
That England, that was wont to conquer others,
Hath made a shameful conquest of itself.
Ah, would the scandal vanish with my life,
How happy then were my ensuing death!

This is one of the most patriotic speeches ever put into a character's mouth: "This royal throne of kings, this scepter'd isle,/This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,/This other Eden, demi-paradise..." If he could die to end the dissolution it would be a happy death. Clearly a shame has come over England. What is the cause of the shame is not clear to me. Unfortunately Shakespeare doesn't show here but tells and an abstract telling at that. We saw in Act 1 Richard's incompetance and moral weakness. But we have to assume that it has only gotten worse, to the point where Gaunt will confront the king. And he does so:

DUKE OF YORK
The king is come: deal mildly with his youth;
For young hot colts being raged do rage the more.

QUEEN
How fares our noble uncle, Lancaster?

KING RICHARD II
What comfort, man? how is't with aged Gaunt?

JOHN OF GAUNT
O how that name befits my composition!
Old Gaunt indeed, and gaunt in being old:
Within me grief hath kept a tedious fast;
And who abstains from meat that is not gaunt?
For sleeping England long time have I watch'd;
Watching breeds leanness, leanness is all gaunt:
The pleasure that some fathers feed upon,
Is my strict fast; I mean, my children's looks;
And therein fasting, hast thou made me gaunt:
Gaunt am I for the grave, gaunt as a grave,
Whose hollow womb inherits nought but bones.

I love the wonderful puns on the word "gaunt." And he says he has watched England for a long time. And then Gaunt challenges the King, saying that though sick it is the King who is actually dying:

KING RICHARD II
Thou, now a-dying, say'st thou flatterest me.

JOHN OF GAUNT
O, no! thou diest, though I the sicker be.

KING RICHARD II
I am in health, I breathe, and see thee ill.

JOHN OF GAUNT
Now He that made me knows I see thee ill;
Ill in myself to see, and in thee seeing ill.
Thy death-bed is no lesser than thy land
Wherein thou liest in reputation sick;
And thou, too careless patient as thou art,
Commit'st thy anointed body to the cure
Of those physicians that first wounded thee:
A thousand flatterers sit within thy crown,
Whose compass is no bigger than thy head;
And yet, incaged in so small a verge,
The waste is no whit lesser than thy land.
O, had thy grandsire with a prophet's eye
Seen how his son's son should destroy his sons,
From forth thy reach he would have laid thy shame,
Deposing thee before thou wert possess'd,
Which art possess'd now to depose thyself.
Why, cousin, wert thou regent of the world,
It were a shame to let this land by lease;
But for thy world enjoying but this land,
Is it not more than shame to shame it so?
Landlord of England art thou now, not king:
Thy state of law is bondslave to the law; And thou--

Gaunt tells the King that actually the King is on death's bed, a reversal of positions, or perhaps a parallel of positions. It's the "thousand flatterers" that swell the King's head and the land has suffered. Intersting choice of words here:

O, had thy grandsire with a prophet's eye
Seen how his son's son should destroy his sons,
From forth thy reach he would have laid thy shame,
Deposing thee before thou wert possess'd,
Which art possess'd now to depose thyself.

On the one hand Gaunt is talking about Richard's forefathers, but the suggestion of "depose" has been articulated and this becomes a sort of prophesy. And the King, furious, cuts him off:

KING RICHARD II
A lunatic lean-witted fool,
Presuming on an ague's privilege,
Darest with thy frozen admonition
Make pale our cheek, chasing the royal blood
With fury from his native residence.
Now, by my seat's right royal majesty,
Wert thou not brother to great Edward's son,
This tongue that runs so roundly in thy head
Should run thy head from thy unreverent shoulders.

And Gaunt in his fianl speech says his last words with pride and honor:

JOHN OF GAUNT
O, spare me not, my brother Edward's son,
For that I was his father Edward's son;
That blood already, like the pelican,
Hast thou tapp'd out and drunkenly caroused:
My brother Gloucester, plain well-meaning soul,
Whom fair befal in heaven 'mongst happy souls!
May be a precedent and witness good
That thou respect'st not spilling Edward's blood:
Join with the present sickness that I have;
And thy unkindness be like crooked age,
To crop at once a too long wither'd flower.
Live in thy shame, but die not shame with thee!
These words hereafter thy tormentors be!
Convey me to my bed, then to my grave:
Love they to live that love and honour have.

He calls him the bloody murderer of his brother, that was held mute in Act 1. I'm not quite sure I understand that last line, but I take it as he has maintained his honor.

[Janine]

Finally I found the thread extension for Act II. I will comment later, tomorrow night (hopefully); but so far, I agree with most that I have read in this new thread. It is late now and I am merely putting in a quick appearance before I head for bed.

[Quark]

but I think in this post I would like to highlight the fine speeches of Gaunt in scene 1.

Throughout these quotes, please admire the brilliant poetry that Shakespeare puts in Gaunt's mouth

You're right to point out the wonderful lines in the first scene. It is "brilliant poetry", and, while I usually dislike saying something is the best part of a story, I do think this is one of the better scenes. Richard's final scene is also good, as well.

Gaunt is going to speak the truth because there is nothing left that the King can do to him: "Where words are scarce, they are seldom spent in vain,/For they breathe truth that breathe their words in pain." But even in the end he wishes to help the King: "My death's sad tale may yet undeaf his ear."

That's true, but I think Gaunt also finds his voice here because of the sobering effect of his coming death. In what you quoted above he draws a connection between "truth" and "pain". Also, he notices that his "words are scarce" which makes them "seldom spent in vain". Like Richard, Gaunt needs a disaster to make him realize the situation and try to act. His coming death is like Richard's loss of the kingdom in that it rescues them from their false notions. Gaunt drops his passive, forbearing attitude of Act I, and Richard will eventually follow this lead in Act V.

This is one of the most patriotic speeches ever put into a character's mouth

I hadn't actually thought of it in that sense--after all, Gaunt is chewing out the king--but it is, in the end, a very loyal speech about England. The late John of Gaunt sees Richard as a blemish on what is otherwise a noble and powerful England.

Clearly a shame has come over England. What is the cause of the shame is not clear to me. Unfortunately Shakespeare doesn't show here but tells and an abstract telling at that.

York's dialogue gives some of it away, but for the rest you have to go to Shakespeare's sources. I'll try to post more on this tomorrow.

He calls him the bloody murderer of his brother, that was held mute in Act 1. I'm not quite sure I understand that last line, but I take it as he has maintained his honor.

I think he means the opposite actually. Gaunt believes that only those who believe in their own honor can want to live. And, since he's sacrificed his honor to go along with Richard, he doesn't want to live anymore.

[Virgil]

You're right to point out the wonderful lines in the first scene. It is "brilliant poetry", and, while I usually dislike saying something is the best part of a story, I do think this is one of the better scenes. Richard's final scene is also good, as well.

Actually I think the whole play is filled with gorgeous poetry. I think Shakespeare out did himself in this one.

That's true, but I think Gaunt also finds his voice here because of the sobering effect of his coming death.

Well, that's what I meant. We're saying the same thing.

I think he means the opposite actually. Gaunt believes that only those who believe in their own honor can want to live. And, since he's sacrificed his honor to go along with Richard, he doesn't want to live anymore.

Oh I think you got that right. Thanks for untangling that for me.

[Quark]

Actually I think the whole play is filled with gorgeous poetry. I think Shakespeare out did himself in this one.

You and I may disagree on this one. I think there are some great parts, but there are also a few points where I wish things would have moved a little quicker. The last half of the first scene in Act II goes on for 150 lines but we don't really learn that much in them. It further explores Richard's shortcomings (that's probably not strong enough of a word) and tells us something about the problems that are on the horizon for him. One would think, though, that Richard's shortcomings had already been established and don't need to dwell on this part about Gaunt. If you think it's important, then it's worth a mention. Does it really need to be acted out like this? I think we get it: Richard's not a good king. Usually, Shakespeare is good at explaining a lot to the audience in a very compressed space, but here it seems unnecessarily wordy. This is just one complaint, but I think there are others that one could make. That isn't to say that it's awful or something like that. It's rather to point out that some parts of the play are better than others, and I think the beginning of this first scene is one of the better parts.

[Virgil]

But Quark, you complain about everything but the poetry. All I mentioned was the poetry was gorgeous in this play. I did not say it was perfect as a work of drama.

[Janine]

But Quark, you complain about everything but the poetry. All I mentioned was the poetry was gorgeous in this play. I did not say it was perfect as a work of drama.

Are you guys going to start duking it out like real men!? haha....

I think I see Quark's point to some extend here. I have some difficulty with this play myself. I guess I am impatient with it and that is really my own deficiency. I have a hard time with Shakespeares long poems such as "The Rape of Lucrea"...afterawhile I get totally lost and bored with the long passages of poetry. I think epic poetry is your thing Virgil from your other studies and discussion on this forum. It is not everyone's bag though. I find this play difficult because I think the long passages of gorgeus poetry are wonderful alone but in the context of the play they tend to distract for me from the plot development. It is probably just a matter of how one perceives poetry or a play like this one. Do you know where it falls in the cannon of Shakespeare's work. Was it an earlier play? I took it he wrote the histories in order but that very well might not be the case. Richard II is a fine play indeed but I just find it a harder one for myself to fully grasp the full and underlining meanings.

[Virgil]

My thing is all poetry *holds his head up so that his nose is in the air* not just epic poetry. I think this play is a little harder to read. Perhaps the poetic diction makes it so. Does that make it harder? Perhaps. But Hamlet also has such poetic diction. I think it's just this story doesn't grab you like that of Hamlet.

Here's a chronological list of Shakespeare's plays:

Henry VI pt 1,2,3 1589-92
Richard III 1592-93
The Comedy of Errors 1592-93
Titus Andronicus 1593-94
The Taming Of The Shrew 1593-94
The Two Gentlemen Of Verona 1594-95
Romeo And Juliet 1594-95
Love's Labor's Lost 1594-95
A Midsummer Night's Dream 1595-96
Richard II 1595-96
King John 1596-97
The Merchant Of Venice 1596-97
Henry IV pt 1,2 1597-98
Henry V 1598-99
Much Ado About Nothing 1598-99
Julius Caesar 1599-1600
As You Like It 1599-1600
The Merry Wives Of Windsor 1600-01
Hamlet 1600-01
Troilus and Cressida 1601-02
Twelfth Night 1601-02
All's Well That Ends Well 1602-03
Measure for Measure 1604-05
Othello 1604-05
King Lear 1605-06
Macbeth 1605-06
Antony and Cleopatra 1606-07
Coriolanus 1607-08
Timon of Athens 1607-08
Pericles 1608-09
Cymbeline 1609-10
The Winter's Tale 1610-11
The Tempest 1610-11
Henry VIII 1612-13

Richard II is after Romeo and Juliet (another play with gorgeous poetry) and before the great tragedies.

[Quark]

But Quark, you complain about everything but the poetry. All I mentioned was the poetry was gorgeous in this play. I did not say it was perfect as a work of drama.

Oh, my mistake. Let me take a few steps back and try this again. I'm still going to say, though, that it's a rather uneven work--even when considering the poetry. Take the two challenge scenes (one in I, i. and the other in IV, i.). They're a little dry and repetitive--lots of "thou liest". That's not to mention all the hyperbole. Poetic exaggeration can be enjoyable when it's fully explored--like it is with lyrics--but when the combatant are nobles with all their self-possession it never really goes anywhere. They cut off their hyperbole before it can really say anything and it's just an exaggeration. What Mowbray says to the king is revealing of the poetry in general during these scenes: "the fair reverence of your Highness curbs me/ From giving reins and spurs to my free speech" (54-55). Images and tropes are taken up for a line and then abandoned.

Of course, it's still pretty enjoyable, and there are some great lines here and there. I just think the that there other parts of the play which have a little more to offer.

Do you know where it falls in the cannon of Shakespeare's work. Was it an earlier play? I took it he wrote the histories in order but that very well might not be the case. Richard II is a fine play indeed but I just find it a harder one for myself to fully grasp the full and underlining meanings.

Richard II is after Romeo and Juliet (another play with gorgeous poetry) and before the great tragedies.

I was wondering when this was written, too, but I'm a little unclear how we got on this. Are you guys trying to figure out the play's quality by when he composed it?

[Janine]

I was wondering when this was written, too, but I'm a little unclear how we got on this. Are you guys trying to figure out the play's quality by when he composed it?

Oh, Quark, I am the one who asked the question and Virgil listed the chronological order in which they were written; thanks for that, Virgil. I wasn't wasn't really questioning the play's quality, but perhaps just wondering how experienced the playwright was at this time, how developed his plays were by then. I am sure, R II is considered by scholars, as a fine example of Shakespeare's history plays. It just does not grab me personally, like "Hamlet" as Virgil pointed out. Not just "Hamlet", but quite a number of other S plays do grab my attention immediately. The Henry plays I like very much; for one thing, we have a cast of colorful characters in those, the tavern (bawdy house) and the peasants. I think this play - Richard II encompasses only the upper class basically; so that, I don't have that connection with the commoners who are involved with the royalty, which give one that instant connection.

[Janine]

My thing is all poetry *holds his head up so that his nose is in the air* not just epic poetry. I think this play is a little harder to read. Perhaps the poetic diction makes it so. Does that make it harder? Perhaps. But Hamlet also has such poetic diction. I think it's just this story doesn't grab you like that of Hamlet.

Here's a chronological list of Shakespeare's plays:

Haha - yes you are a poetry snob! haha You said it now, not me! Right, this story doesn't really grab me the same as the others I have read, even some of the other history plays.

Richard II is after Romeo and Juliet (another play with gorgeous poetry) and before the great tragedies.

Yeah, but I think both Hamlet and Romeo are romantic figures that are very appealing. I think that Henry V is romantic, also. I think that Richard II is not at all a romantic figure. Since I am a hopeless romantic, perhaps that is what I find lacking in this play for my tastes. There isn't much going on between male and females in this play. Only one scene where Richard and his queen part, can I recall much of an interchange and to me it was just ok, nothing to compare with the complexity of the relationship between Hamlet and Ophelia or of Romeo and Juliet.