A Rose For Emily

[Virgil]

I wonder where the weight gain came from. Was it depression, or just old age. I would think that her appetite would go.

A sort of symbolic degeneration I think. I'm reminded of Lighttower in Light In August who is heavy in his old age.

[NickAdams]

I don't really have any good ideas about that, Nick. Perhaps she felt the other ways too violent, or maybe she just wanted to keep Homer sick, at least at first. Emily didn't strike me as a violent woman, just one who was deranged. I felt very sorry for her because of the cause of that derangement, but she was still deranged. She still killed Homer Barron.

You're right: she doesn't seem violent. She played a submissive role in the relationship with her father. Poison is is very passive-agressive. I find the story sad through Emily's perspective. The wrongs she might have felt that were done to her and her desperation.

A sort of symbolic degeneration I think. I'm reminded of Lighttower in Light In August who is heavy in his old age.

Hightower? I'm sure you were thinking of the title as you wrote his name, but I see what you mean.

[Virgil]

Hightower? I'm sure you were thinking of the title as you wrote his name, but I see what you mean.

Yes, Hightower. Silly me. Memory is not as good as it used to be.

[NickAdams]

Yes, Hightower. Silly me. Memory is not as good as it used to be.

I had to confirm it through a website myself.

We've already established that the narrator is "the town" or is speaking for the town. Do you think the narrator is young or old or is sympathetic or not sympathetic to Miss Emily?

I feel the narrator is older, more of Miss Emily's generation, and is, at least most of the time, sympathetic to her.

I wonder how the narrator knew of her deal with Satoris when the Sheriff didn't and no proof could be found, but it is first stated a fact. I agree: the narrator is from her generation or maybe older. The narrator never condemns Emily for the death of Homer. I think he might be sympathetic to her era.

What do you suppose the sex of the narrator is?

Fualkner names his characters in the manner Dickens did. What do you suppose is the significance behind Emily Grierson and Homer Barron names?

[Virgil]

I'm not sure, but I get the impression that the narrator is male. Perhaps he was a friend of Colonel Sartoris.

Sentences like this:

We remembered all the young men her father had driven away, and we knew that with nothing left, she would have to cling to that which had robbed her, as people will.

Tell me the narrator has been around as long, or longer, than Miss Emily.

I can't tell the sex of the narrator, but I differ on the age. I felt that the story was a synthezation (is there such a word? ) of a group of people (some young, some old all with various bits of the story) coming together and telling each other parts of her story and this narrator actually knowing less than the total story. The narrator tells us the men looked at her as a monument. That actually suggests someone who didn't quite live through it but accepts the established status.

It's really difficult to tell, isn't it?

Here's one commentary I found, but it isn't necessarily correct. No one knows but Faulkner He's sort of like my hairdresser.

http://www.cliffsnotes.com/WileyCDA/...ageNum-12.html

Yes a hairdresser. LOL. That Cliffsnotes analysis was pretty good. I dont; think they came to a conclusion as to whether old or young. Perhaps we just bring our vision to the story. Something in there threw me though. It says Emily was involved in adultery. Neither her nor Homer are married. Where's the adultery? At least one of the parties needs to be married to be considered adultery. No?

[Janine]

I had to confirm it through a website myself.

I wonder how the narrator knew of her deal with Satoris when the Sheriff didn't and no proof could be found, but it is first stated a fact. I agree: the narrator is from her generation or maybe older. The narrator never condemns Emily for the death of Homer. I think he might be sympathetic to her era.

What do you suppose the sex of the narrator is?

Fualkner names his characters in the manner Dickens did. What do you suppose is the significance behind Emily Grierson and Homer Barron names?

How funny, we see things so differently about who is narrating the story; all along I got the sense it was another (older) woman or women, since as someone said, the person or persons, never condemned Miss Emily, for her final act.

Nick, could 'Homer' be a reference to 'home' and did Miss Emily see him as her baron or was poor Homer barren (impotent)? He certainly was so at the end, reduced to a mere decayed corpse. Now as far as the name, Emily, is concerned, I can only relate that to 'Emily' Dickenson, who also was deprived of love and wrote her poems in secret and stashed them in an attic. The 'Grierson,' has me miffed, unless it comes close, at least in my mind, to the word 'grief'. Miss Emily certainly had her share of that. I have no idea, if I am even close, but thought I would throw out these ideas anyway.

That is interesting to know about Faulkner and name significance; I will keep that idea in mind as I read his work. Thanks for pointing that out Nick.

[Virgil]

Good thoughts on Emily and Barren Janine. I think you might be right, though we'll never know. It's fun to speculate. Grierson reminds me of grey like the color of her hair. Homer reminds me of the author of the Illiad and Odyssey. Perhaps that's an ironic statement.

[Janine]

Good thoughts on Emily and Barren Janine. I think you might be right, though we'll never know. It's fun to speculate. Grierson reminds me of grey like the color of her hair. Homer reminds me of the author of the Illiad and Odyssey. Perhaps that's an ironic statement.

Thanks Virgil, yes, I thought ' barren' was pretty funny, myself. Who knows he may have been physically so from the start of his stay in Miss E's house. Maybe she started with that arsnic way back, keeping him ill and nursing him along, as she slowly killed him. We don't know the details. When I suggested 'home' for the name 'Homer' I was thinking in terms of keeping Homer at home. This Miss E certainly did achieve that. He became a very 'homey' kind of guy. Yes, 'gray' does fit the idea of a Miss Grierson - but it also seems to me to suggest the word 'gruesome'; other words to consider might be 'grievance', 'grief', 'grieve', 'greivous'....and a whole lot more...So who can really tell, unless we could conjure up the ghost of Faulkner himself, and ask him directly? Can you explain your last statement. I don't see the relationship exactly to this story, but it sounds interesting. I know in the novel "The Human Comedy" by Saroyan, 'Homer' was used in reference to the 'Homer' in Greek legends, but I forget now exactly how they related. That book centered around a small town and a very close-knit family life.

Antiquarian, thanks for your concern; you are always so thoughful. Yes my eyes are better today, thanks to some ointment that helped. I do have to take it easy, so it does not recur again. Bright computer screens are hard on the eyes and change in temperatures don't help either; I will just have to limit my time for a few days, so they get all better again.

Glad to see your thread is going on so well.

[NickAdams]

I can't tell the sex of the narrator, but I differ on the age. I felt that the story was a synthezation (is there such a word? ) of a group of people (some young, some old all with various bits of the story) coming together and telling each other parts of her story and this narrator actually knowing less than the total story. The narrator tells us the men looked at her as a monument. That actually suggests someone who didn't quite live through it but accepts the established status.

Very true. There are times when a male voice is suggested and other times, like how the telling of Emily getting rid of her cousins sounds like gossip, suggest a female voice. They are legion.

How funny, we see things so differently about who is narrating the story; all along I got the sense it was another (older) woman or women, since as someone said, the person or persons, never condemned Miss Emily, for her final act.

Nick, could 'Homer' be a reference to 'home' and did Miss Emily see him as her baron or was poor Homer barren (impotent)? He certainly was so at the end, reduced to a mere decayed corpse. Now as far as the name, Emily, is concerned, I can only relate that to 'Emily' Dickenson, who also was deprived of love and wrote her poems in secret and stashed them in an attic. The 'Grierson,' has me miffed, unless it comes close, at least in my mind, to the word 'grief'. Miss Emily certainly had her share of that. I have no idea, if I am even close, but thought I would throw out these ideas anyway.

That is interesting to know about Faulkner and name significance; I will keep that idea in mind. Thanks for pointing that out Nick.

I was thinking Homer as orator, but I like your connection better.

I found this on wikipedia under Grierson:
Grierson's Raid was a Union cavalry raid during the Vicksburg Campaign of the American Civil War. It ran from April 17 to May 2, 1863, as a diversion from Maj. Gen. Ulysses S. Grant's main attack plan on Vicksburg, Mississippi.

Two examples come from Faulkner's Light in August: Hightower the recluse and Grove the giver of life.

Virgil, It wasn't adultery to me since neither were married. I suppose technically it could have been fornication, but we don't even know if Miss Emily and Homer had a sexual relationship. Some of the townspeople just didn't like seeing them together because he was "lower class" and a Northerner. The did refer to her as "fallen," though.

Janine, It's good to see you back. I hope your eye is better and trust it is.

What are the other connections between Satoris and Homer, besides the Confederate and the Union one?

[papayahed]

I kinda assumed the narrator was the town itself, kinda like the phrase "if these walls could talk.

So what about Tobe? what's he all about? What happened to him? Where did he go after Miss emily dies?

[DapperDrake]

The name Homer means "hostage" apparently (thank you babynames.com ) I wonder if thats a coincidence as homer certainly is Emily's hostage. Of course Homer Barron is barren to emily, his love bares no fruit as he clearly plans to desert her.

With regard the narrator I thought whilst reading the story that the narrator was sexless, not a real person, just a contrivance to tell the story. I didn't notice anything to tie the narrator to anything in the story other that the use of "we" - the narrator is certainly talking from the towns perspective. Like papayahed says I think the narrator is literally the town (or towns people as a collective)

[Quark]

When asked what inspired him to write "A Rose for Emily," Faulkner describes the story as a "tragic manifestation of man's condition."

In this case there was the young girl with a young girl's normal aspirations to find love and then a husband and a family, who was brow-beaten and kept down by her father,...a natural instinct...repressed which...comes up somewhere else and very likely in a tragic form.

In another interview, he explains why Emily murders Homer:

Warped...by selfish father, [when Emily] found a man, she had had no experience in people. She picked out probably a bad one, who was about to desert her. And when she lost him she could see that for her that was the end of life, there was nothing left except to grow older, alone, solitary; she had had something and she wanted to keep it.

Do you remember when Faulkner said this? It may be important since Faulkner had the habit of redefining his older works in order to fit his new mood. If you've read The Sound and the Fury and then glanced at the appendix, you know what I mean. In this case, I think Faulkner gives a rather Romantic spin to the story by making it about Emily. The Emily we see in the story isn't as developed or as central in the story as Faulkner's summary. The reader is distanced from her character by the narrator's perspective and the town's behavior toward her. It's hard to believe that the story is about her when she's such a shadowy figure. The story seems more about the town's troubled relationship with its past. Most of the details point to the past, memory, or old age. The town is located near the buried bodies of Civil War soldiers, dust appears in many places in the story. The entire story is a rememberance, and within the remembrance there are other memories brought up by the narrator and other characters. The story seems to be more about the town's own struggle with the past, and less about Emily's. Emily is brought up to be emblematic and to give a personal touch to the story. The story, however, is not about what's going on her in her soul.

[Janine]

In reference to what Faulkner wrote about his story:
Quote by Antiquarian

In another interview, he explains why Emily murders Homer:

Warped...by selfish father, [when Emily] found a man, she had had no experience in people. She picked out probably a bad one, who was about to desert her. And when she lost him she could see that for her that was the end of life, there was nothing left except to grow older, alone, solitary; she had had something and she wanted to keep it.

This is what I meant before about Miss Emily being 'naive'; I meant naive concerning men. How was she ever able to get any experience with the opposite sex, being so isolated by her father? Here is what I meant, Papayahed, not that she was naive about other matters or dumb at all. She was rather foxy I thought about certain things such as her taxes; but when it came to men, her father had kept her like a child.

Antquarian, This short description and explanation, by the author, seems plausible to me.

Quote by DappeDrake

The name Homer means "hostage" apparently (thank you babynames.com ) I wonder if thats a coincidence as homer certainly is Emily's hostage. Of course Homer Barron is barren to emily, his love bares no fruit as he clearly plans to desert her.

Oh, that's interesting, isn't it? Thanks for looking that up DapperDrake, and further expounding on my idea of being barren. That explanation makes sense to me.

With regard the narrator I thought whilst reading the story that the narrator was sexless, not a real person, just a contrivance to tell the story. I didn't notice anything to tie the narrator to anything in the story other that the use of "we" - the narrator is certainly talking from the towns perspective. Like papayahed says I think the narrator is literally the town (or towns people as a collective)

I share in your thoughts on the narrator. That also was my impression - the narrator was the town's people - a collective. There really was nothing to indicte it was only one person speaking or if it were, they were speaking on behalf of the town as a whole.

Quark, I think the story can be perceived either way. I took this story more personally; others may relate it to the death of the Old South/old ways. To me it seems like a story about each.

[Scheherazade]

I read the story a few days ago but never had a chance to post (actually I realised that I had read it at university but forgotten all about it... probably because it had gone over my head then! )

Going back to the title... I have read some of the suggestions but none of them sits well with me at the moment. I was wondering... As far as I could see throughout the story she is refered as "Miss Emily" but why do you think it is "Emily" in the title?

I agree with the comments that the narrator is "town"... However, they never treat Miss Emily as one of themselves; she (probably the whole family) is like a "sight" for them; something separate to watch and observe.

[naphelge]

I have read this short story a few times now and I am getting a better understanding of the story. However after reading some online analysis' of the story I keep reading that Miss Emily was highly regarded by the townsfolk in the story. I just get a totally different impression each time I read the story.

I understand most of the town refers to her as "Miss" Emily. A term that might be considered a term of respect if used today but back when the story is written I am thinking this would be a common way of addressing a non-married woman, especially in the southern States.

The other part many analysis' point to claiming great respect for Miss Emily is in the opening line of the story about her funeral:

our whole town went to her funeral: the men through a sort of respectful affection for a fallen monument

Here I think the "fallen monument" refers to the death of the last of member of another great "august" family in town and not necessarily for Miss Emily personally.

There are many mentions throughout the story however, where it appears as though most townsfolk feel "vindicated" and even "glad" when Miss Emily and the Grierson name takes a bit of a topple:

So when she got to be thirty and was still single, we were not pleased exactly, but vindicated;

When her father died, it got about that the house was all that was left to her; and in a way, people were glad.

In another time when she is going through tough relationship problems, and the townsfolk mistakenly, yet still callously believe Miss Emily will be doing herself a service by killing herself with the poison she buys at the drug store.

"She will kill herself"; and we said it would be the best thing.

So I just can't seem to get my head around the fact that the townsfolk actually held a great deal of respect for Miss Emily or her Family name. I think perhaps they ultimately respected the idea and legacy of such "august" families, but even the townsfolk seem to think that the Griersons family held itself in higher esteem than it actually deserved:

the Griersons held themselves a little too high for what they really were.

I am quite a noob at analyzing literature, so any insight would be appreciated, as I am working on becoming more adept at doing so.

Also I was wondering if anyone had a good analysis of the importance of the "two cousins" that come into the story at three different occasions. No great detail ever seems to be revealed about them or their importance to the story.

cheers,
nap