Are humans special or are we nothing more the mere rabbits

[Scheherazade]

This is a very interesting discussion. Let's not get distracted with personal comments (which you can exchange via PM if you choose to do so).

[Nightshade]

(excluding my theism)

am having what before PC would be called a 'blond' moment can you explain what that means I was going to PM you but thats too much bother

The ability to love, reason, and create is “superior” than the ability to breathe underwater, or fly.

why?

I’m with it all the way, and if somebody tied me down (especially in that situation) I’d defend mankind and it’s characteristics as noble. You know the statement, “The world is a fine place, and worth fighting for?”

well Ill admit that Ill also admit that as a muslim my beliefs point me in he dirrection of humans while not being supirior are the master race, but then agan I also belive that all animals have sould and are capable and do in fat worship God.

Or ponder its own existence.

but would you realise it was doing it if you saw it and how do you know then if they dont?

*sigh* Don't base your argument on another poster's age or your idea of what their IQ is etc etc. Posts will be edited/deleted if there are any more sophomoric/flame-ish comments.

yay!

Dismissing my entire argument because I was born in 1987 is friendly?

wow really your the same age as me? How theheck do you know so much?
This is very demoralising news well its not as bad as Robin I guess.

[Virgil]

All creatures are different and special in their own ways. Fish can stay under the water and swim, birds fly, most 'animals' can navigate through their very complicated and developed senses, some can see in the dark; they hear and smell 'better' than us. They are, we are, all different and special in our own way. Some of the other animals lack and we have do not necessarily mean we are superior.

This has come up a couple of times. So,











Need I say more.

[hitchhiker]

I posted the whole thing it started with me. And I must have not been clear with the question but here is the real thing. If you believe in a higher being then you must also believe that each individual here is nothing more then a rabbit or even an ant when compared to his inteligence and his just over whelming greatness. So there for no matter what all we have created individually we are little more then nothing compared to him (or she or it or what ever it may be budda, god, satan, ahlai, what ever it doesn't really matter) we are but one ant in his ant farm. And if you look at it from that prespective see this too. When as a child we look at ant farms or ant hills we see their tunnels and amazing ability to lift such heavy things, well heavy to them, so look at god as the child and us as the ants but on a larger plain instead of tunnels we have roads and what not. So compared to him we are ants and if we are ants does this higher being have any respect for us or with his great knowledge does he just look down and luagh. There is the theory or question or just whatever you want to call it. It is NOT ASKING IF WE ARE JUST SIMPLE ANIMALS!!!!!!!

[Virgil]

I posted the whole thing it started with me. And I must have not been clear with the question but here is the real thing. If you believe in a higher being then you must also believe that each individual here is nothing more then a rabbit or even an ant when compared to his inteligence and his just over whelming greatness. So there for no matter what all we have created individually we are little more then nothing compared to him (or she or it or what ever it may be budda, god, satan, ahlai, what ever it doesn't really matter) we are but one ant in his ant farm. And if you look at it from that prespective see this too. When as a child we look at ant farms or ant hills we see their tunnels and amazing ability to lift such heavy things, well heavy to them, so look at god as the child and us as the ants but on a larger plain instead of tunnels we have roads and what not. So compared to him we are ants and if we are ants does this higher being have any respect for us or with his great knowledge does he just look down and luagh. There is the theory or question or just whatever you want to call it. It is NOT ASKING IF WE ARE JUST SIMPLE ANIMALS!!!!!!!

All that for nothing? What? Do you realize how you got people's passions up?

[Orionsbelt]

How can you be sure that animals have no sense of an “ideal”? If they had an “ideal”, would the utter disparity between their faculties and ours play any part?



I’d like to see a bear launch a satellite. Or solve a calculus problem. Or ponder its own existence. Bears are not very clever at all. What you’ve described is an evolutionary adaptation, a product of years and years of instinct built up, I’d say.

Well If you start with the notion that men lived in caves and bears lived in caves. Only one has imagined an improvement (idealized) and moved into new digs. So I think it is both.

I had a dog once that was running away from me. He ran to the edge of the house turned the corner and then peaked back around to watch what I was doing. I thought I would be clever and circle the house in the other direction. When I got to the corner and peaked around the dog was gone. When I turned around in the direction that I had come the dog was peaking at me. So there is some degree of cognition at work. This isn't instinct in my opinion. This is an evaluation and acting on it.

However, as has been pointed out so many times already bears and other animals completely lack ambition. There is no visible sign of improvement. The same can be said of the great apes who are behavioraly very similar to us. So lets say another animal could imagine some improvement in comfort. It would be sensible to act on it. So I can only conclude that the ability to imagine some new state isn't present.

However, so now the question becomes how special is this feature? Does it represent a pinnicle. If it does how so? And then further so what?

Is the whole rank issue is somewhat petty given the fact that in a billion stars and planets within sight we are the only known spot to have developed any kind of animal? So on the grand scale of amazement, the differance may be somewhat lost on outsiders. Having introduced yourself as the representative peak of the planet, what would you say to the delegation from Outland?

[miss tenderness]

As Mawlana Jalal-Ad Din Rumi said; "no matter how much you know, they will understand from what you say as much as they know".

Interesting,wise saying,though not applicable in all situation. May I be enlightene more about Jalal Adin Rumi,Turk?I mean his name is not weird but I can’t figure out who exactly is he ?he won my interest. I'll be grateful if u send me a brief information concerning him or direct me to a site,thanks.

Dismissing my entire argument because I was born in 1987 is friendly?

Though all of your argument does not make sense to me,Cupp,still your argument should not be dismissed just because of your age. I mean who knows,maybe someone who's younger beats with the knowledge he has, many people older than him. We should judge according to the argument and proofs stated ,not someone's age.

[Virgil]

Well If you start with the notion that men lived in caves and bears lived in caves. Only one has imagined an improvement (idealized) and moved into new digs. So I think it is both.

I had a dog once that was running away from me. He ran to the edge of the house turned the corner and then peaked back around to watch what I was doing. I thought I would be clever and circle the house in the other direction. When I got to the corner and peaked around the dog was gone. When I turned around in the direction that I had come the dog was peaking at me. So there is some degree of cognition at work. This isn't instinct in my opinion. This is an evaluation and acting on it.

However, as has been pointed out so many times already bears and other animals completely lack ambition. There is no visible sign of improvement. The same can be said of the great apes who are behavioraly very similar to us. So lets say another animal could imagine some improvement in comfort. It would be sensible to act on it. So I can only conclude that the ability to imagine some new state isn't present.

However, so now the question becomes how special is this feature? Does it represent a pinnicle. If it does how so? And then further so what?

You provided a nice comparison. Yes, I've noticed cognition in my dogs too. But they have no ability to build on it. In 13 million years, the wolf and dog haven't orgainzed their lives in any different way.

Side note: As I type this my dog Brandi is laying comfortably on my couch in my living room in my heated home. Perhaps they are not so dumb after all.

[Taliesin]

So, are you claiming that human race is of greater worth than animals because they have got all these gadgets that make life easier, or have we misunderstood you?

Logically thinking, then one should think the more technologically developed a society or culture is, the better it is, no? So French should be worth more than the Sami, the English worth more than the Apachi, the Greeks worth more than the Ainu?
We really don't think so. Right, the Sami didn't invent a lot of technological gadgets (although, their folklore is a marvel) but does it make them inferior?
They just don't need them. What's wrong with that?

Similarly, the animals don't need to launch a rocket to outer space or solve calculus problems. They can get by without these things and they do get by. Are they worse than us because they don't have the need?

Besides, our intellect is also causing the danger of making humankind a short-lived species. There is a good chance that humankind will go extinct much sooner than other strong species normallly do. Live fast, die young, leave a... um.... not-so-good-looking remains?

[Logos]

Side note: As I type this my dog Brandi is laying comfortably on my couch in my living room in my heated home. Perhaps they are not so dumb after all.

Domesticated beasts are at our mercy and don't have much choice when they are held captive by us, you'd be surprised how many animals will choose to run away from their 'masters' if given that ultimate freedom

[Nightshade]

So compared to him we are ants and if we are ants does this higher being have any respect for us or with his great knowledge does he just look down and luagh. There is the theory or question or just whatever you want to call it. It is NOT ASKING IF WE ARE JUST SIMPLE ANIMALS!!!!!!!

And thats an interesting point once its out there/here for reinterpritation does it actually matter what the authours intention was?

[Virgil]

So, are you claiming that human race is of greater worth than animals because they have got all these gadgets that make life easier, or have we misunderstood you?

I never mentioned worth in any of my posts. My single point in all of this is that humans are not animals but a species apart based on very simple observations. No animal comes close in doing what humans do.

[Virgil]

Domesticated beasts are at our mercy and don't have much choice when they are held captive by us, you'd be surprised how many animals will choose to run away from their 'masters' if given that ultimate freedom

Not my Brandi. She knows a good thing when she sees it.

[Turk]

Dismissing my entire argument because I was born in 1987 is friendly?

I am not dismissing your arguments just because your age, i dismiss your arguments becasue i don't think they are sensible to me. Without knowing essence and arguments of true religion, without knowing relation between historical events and philosophy at the background of historical events you can still make comments, and those comments can be logical, becasue everyone has a brain and everyone can think, but thinking without knowledge is like swimming in a fish pool. Every fish thinks he's in a ocean without knowing what's ocean. And btw as i can see yet now nobody made any reasonable comments about moral, good and evil etc. All i can see is just demagogic comments.

At the end i would like to say i made comment about your age but it's not becasue something about you, it's because me, personally i don't like to argue with so young or very old people because of some reasons. Although i didn't say you shouldn't make comments, i just said you should be a little calm and controlled.

[Turk]

Interesting,wise saying,though not applicable in all situation. May I be enlightene more about Jalal Adin Rumi,Turk?I mean his name is not weird but I can’t figure out who exactly is he ?he won my interest. I'll be grateful if u send me a brief information concerning him or direct me to a site,thanks.

Mawlana Jalal-Ad Din Rumi is a great Sufi philosopher. His book Mesnevi is the greatest book i've ever read and he's the wisest poet/philosopher, almost every sentence of his books is full of wisery. I'll add a link for you, about his works and biography;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jalal_ad-Din_Muhammad_Rumi

You can find links to his works at the bottom of that article, but if you going to read him i advice you to be careful and thoughtful. Because if you don't read careful it may just seem like some fables and eastern stories to you.

http://www.mevlana.ws/ Here's one more...