Boy Scouts and Bullies

[*Classic*Charm*]

Don't put words in my mouth. I never used the word "all". I only said "if". The definition of "gay" is a person who is sexually attracted to the same sex. Therefore, as I stated, if my daughter were to share a tent alone with a gay female camper all night I would be uncomfortable with that because the possibility would exist that the gay female camper could be sexually attracted to my daughter.

Not meaning to be snarky, but why are you uncomfortable with that, exactly? Are you afraid this girl is going to assault your daughter? Do you think she's going to "convince" your daughter to become interested in women? Is the age gap between the two important? The idea of using homophobia to shield someone from those who may be attracted to her is outrageous. Once your daughter hits high school or university and has teachers or professors only a few years older than her, should she not interact with them because they may find her attractive? The action is what's important, not the attraction.

What about the bisexual kids? Where do they get to sleep? Or are they not invited?

[OrphanPip]

Don't put words in my mouth. I never used the word "all". I only said "if". The definition of "gay" is a person who is sexually attracted to the same sex. Therefore, as I stated, if my daughter were to share a tent alone with a gay female camper all night I would be uncomfortable with that because the possibility would exist that the gay female camper could be sexually attracted to my daughter.

Such an issue wouldn't exactly be solved by banning openly gay youth from the organization. Not to mention the fact that sleeping in rooms with others of the same sex, sharing changing rooms, showers, or other gendered spaces is not a novel experience to gay youth who grow up in these situations and don't have any other option.

[Melanie]

The idea of using homophobia to shield someone from those who may be attracted to her is outrageous. Once your daughter hits high school or university and has teachers or professors only a few years older than her, should she not interact with them because they may find her attractive.

The definition of "homophobia" is an extreme and irrational aversion to homosexuality and homosexual people. Your accusation that I'm protecting my daughter with "outrageous homophobia" is simply wrong. I'm not at all prejudice against homosexuals, let alone "extreme" or "irrational". I simply stated that I would be uncomfortable for my daughter to share a girl scout tent alone with one other female who was sexually attracted to the same sex. This thread is not about university students nor teachers nor professors. It's about children in boy scouts and girl scouts.

[Delta40]

if homosexuality is a sexual preference then so is heterosexuality. Why not rest assured that your daughter has made her choice and is not in any danger? She can always say 'no'.

[Melanie]

Because I'm a parent. I merely said I'm uncomfortable. I have no easy solution. It's a dilemma. Now, I think I'll step way from the firing squad.

[Scheherazade]

If we are talking about children, why is sexuality even an issue?

What's more, where is a gay girl supposed to sleep if not with your daughter, whose heterosexuality you are so certain of?

[cacian]

these are children one is talking about. how does sex get into it?

[togre]

I noticed the title of the thread included the word "bullying." What does bullying look like? Where have you seen it recently? In this thread?

There is a legitimate divergence of opinions -- Is homosexuality a moral (or some who say "God-pleasing") lifestyle? There is further disagreement on what how a person or group who answers "no" can express this conviction.

But to hurl insulting names, to publicly campaign against those who disagree, to privately belittle and berate--aren't these the actions of bullies?

[JuniperWoolf]

If these youth are old enough to be sexually active then aren't these youth sleeping in the same tent on camping trips with the straight youth?

Those are some solid lines you're drawing. Sexual preference isn't "this group" or "that group," there aren't two easily distinguished taxonomic categories. I promise, most of those "straight youths" have been curious or experimental with friends of their own sex for some time.

When I was a cadet on one of our events the organization had a lot of trouble deciding where to put the new girl who, as soon as she arrived, openly identified as bisexual. She ended up having to sleep in the officers' tent. She should have kept her mouth shut, because while she had to go to bed right at lights out the rest of the girls were enjoying a riveting game of spin the bottle. The scouts aren't much different from the cadets, and wherever you go kids are kids. Ever played "doctor?" Or "truth or dare?"

Young people aren't exactly known for their forthrightness to their parents and elders about sex. You also have to consider that most young people don't even have an established sexual identity yet, because that takes years to figure out. How can you think it's possible that all young people can be sorted as either "gay youths" or "straight youths," and that this can be taken even further to keep one group isolated from the other during sleepovers or camp outs?

[Volya]

If gay children cannot share a tent with those of the same gender, where can they go...? If they get put in with the opposite gender, then some of the opposite gender could be attracted to them.... It is a dilemma!!!!! I suppose the best thing is to ban all homosexuals from going camping. It seems like the easiest solution. We have to keep our good children safe from the homosexual children...

[*Classic*Charm*]

these are children one is talking about. how does sex get into it?

We are talking about groups not admitting homosexuals. Children's groups like the Scouts. Individuals have suggested that perhaps this is the right course of action because they don't want "heterosexual kids" bunking with "homosexual kids", in case of unwanted sexual attraction/ attention.

Keep up, please.

[*Classic*Charm*]

I'm not at all prejudice against homosexuals, let alone "extreme" or "irrational". I simply stated that I would be uncomfortable for my daughter to share a girl scout tent alone with one other female who was sexually attracted to the same sex.

Then what do you suggest? How should camps handle the matter of openly homosexual youths?


What would you do in that situation? Either you keep your daughter at home to avoid the matter, or you only send her to camps where homosexuals are not allowed. Forgive me, but either of those sounds homophobic to me.

[papayahed]

Then what do you suggest? How should camps handle the matter of openly homosexual youths?


What would you do in that situation? Either you keep your daughter at home to avoid the matter, or you only send her to camps where homosexuals are not allowed. Forgive me, but either of those sounds homophobic to me.

And what do you do about the children that don't know what they are yet??

[Volya]

Then what do you suggest? How should camps handle the matter of openly homosexual youths?

I think my solution works perfectly!!! Just ban homosexuals from camping!!! That way our precious children can remain safe from the homosexuals who want to steal our childrens innocence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AuntShecky]

The original premise of this thread was that while the Boy Scouts of America have lifted their ban on admitting gay youths to the organization, the Southern Baptist church has decided to disband several scout troops under its aegis in the southern states and others, such as Idaho,rather than accept the new policy. Denying children --of every type sexual orientation-- of the opportunity to join the boy scouts is similar to the behavior of a schoolyard bully.

If we are talking about children, why is sexuality even an issue?

I agree. That's why the church's policy on this matter is so baffling. On the one hand, they may be among those of us who (rightly) decry the hypersexualization of children, in terms of alluring fashions for little girls, dollying them up for beauty pageants, and the like, yet when the Boy Scouts decided to stop discriminating, the Southern Baptists automatically assumed that the new policy somehow sanctioned lascivious behavior -- among children! That tells me where their minds are--not in heaven, but somewhere closer to the gutter.

The original posting never said nor assumed anything about camping, sleeping arrangements, showering or anything of such personal nature. Some kids will misbehave in any situation--mischievious prankish stunts like short-sheeting the scoutleader's bed or rigging a water bucket on the cabin door. But would they turn a Jamboree into Caligula's orgy? I don't think so. It would hardly occur to them.

Worrying about the possibility of actual sexual activity among the kids in this age group is not only silly but echoes the fatuous arguments against abolishing "Don't Ask Don't Tell" in the military.