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Thread: Boy Scouts and Bullies

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    Boy Scouts and Bullies

    Among the famous quips attributed to the great Groucho Marx is his oft-quoted line that he'd never join any club that would accept him as a member. The man-on-the-street's corollary to such Marxian theory is the less-humorous but more-frequently confession: "I know where I'm not wanted."

    Once in a great while, an organization which formerly rejected certain hopefuls from joining it makes an about-face and softens its strict --most would say biased--criterion and accept the erstwhile pariahs, though not, we hasten to say, with opened arms. This is what happened recently within the Boy Scouts of America, which after a century of existence, decided to admit openly gay young men into its membership. It's about time-- we might say, while the BSA maintains its long-standing ban against allowing gay men as scoutleaders.

    But no sooner than the door opened, a multitude of windows banged shut. Some Southern Baptist churches in the United States are staging a mass defection, withdrawing their association with the scouts rather than follow the new direction. In other words, they'd rather quit than allow some kids to become Boy Scouts. The reason they give for such cruel discrimination is religious. According to an AP report of 6/5/13, one associate pastor says, "We're a Bible-believing church, and the Boy Scouts have opted to pursue a different moral path."

    "A different moral path"? Really? Over the decades, the Boy Scouts have maintained a "squeaky clean" image, instilling values of helpfulness,charity,environmental consciousness, patriotism and most of all, fairness. By no longer discriminating against potential scouts who happen to be gay, they are going beyond mere tolerance toward the higher plane of acceptance. If anything, the Boy Scouts are following, rather than flouting the Scriptures: loving their neighbors as they do themselves. (Or at least making the attempt.)

    What's missing from the argument of the Southern Baptists is the Christian idea(l) of an all-loving God. As Dr. Martin Luther King once stated, "Every man is equal because he is a child of God." So, the question arises: is this the way to treat a (literal) child, with rejection, cruelty, and hatred? If a boy happens to be gay, he had no choice --moral or otherwise-- in the matter; this is the way God made him. Why should he be made to suffer for it?

    Additionally, the boy may be already suffering the pain of rejection and intolerance. Schoolyard bullies have a tendency to target gays (or those perceived to be gay.) What is a kid supposed to do in order to counteract the daily cycle of abuse? Join a gang? The kid needs an environment in which he may feel unconditionally accepted,a structure in which he can participate fully in enriching activities, a place to learn, to achieve--to enjoy the same opportunities as anybody else.

    The Boy Scouts of America still have a long way to go, but in terms of enlightenment, they're way ahead of some of these church leaders.By choosing to remain within the Boy Scouts, the churches could continue to do good works. Instead, they've bailed, called it quits, opting to take their dolls and dishes and go home rather than to give some poor kids a break.

    I'm an old lady who walks with a cane-- what do I know? But I'll tell you something: when I need someone to help me cross the street, I hope he's a Boy Scout and not a Southern Baptist.

    What do you think about this issue?
    Last edited by AuntShecky; 06-19-2013 at 06:47 PM.

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    Homophobia. Sadly it's nothing unusual in society.

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    Procrastinator General *Classic*Charm*'s Avatar
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    All gay men are pedophiles, don'cha know? Ugh.

    Sadly, the Boy Scouts have not always been squeaky clean. In recent years, many reports have come to light about boys who were sexually assaulted by leaders at camp events. HOWEVER, that is a separate issue. Pedophilia is not synonymous with homosexuality and good on the Boy Scouts for pulling their heads out of their behinds in that respect.

    As for the church, I don't know what to say. I like to think that one day down the road this will be looked upon the same way the history of racial segregation is- with embarrassment and disgust. Then I remember that there are still horrible racist factions in the southern US, primarily, and realize that this particular Christian sect may never grow up.
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    Dance Magic Dance OrphanPip's Avatar
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    Well the Scouts also bar atheists and agnostics from being members, so it's not exactly the most progressive organizations. My parents were heavily involved in the local leadership of Scouts Canada, and the most common disputes that arose for them surrounded the various prayers and oaths to God that constitute the organization, which often caused problems for groups, like the one my mother lead, that were in more ethnically diverse neighbourhoods and wanted to include non-Christian youth.

    The ban on homosexuals actually has little to do with fears over pedophilia, it has to do with the religious constitution of the Scouting Movement. The BSA should take note that most Scouting organizations in Europe, Canada and the UK allow openly gay membership (still bar atheists for the most part), but don't have the same degree of sexual abuse scandals plaguing them. The BSA has a problem with sexual abuse because they spent years avoiding background checks on members and they preferred to cover up abuse rather than tackle the systemic problem with their organization that let any predator walk off the street and work with children.
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    A User, but Registered! tonywalt's Avatar
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    For what it's worth, and it's worth alot, it important to know why the Southern Baptists broke away from the main Baptist church in the South in the year 1845. As they also thought slavery was important to preserve.

    They have a extra special history of intolerence.

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    One more thing--

    While it may be admirable, even heroic, to stick to one's principles, nothing in this case is anywhere near the level of St. Thomas More standing up to Henry VIII. These Southern Baptists believe they are standing up for "principle," but is the principle, an abstraction,more important than the reality? By removing their sponsorship of the
    Boy Scouts, there is no guarantee that some other entity or institution will step in and provide venues and other support. As a result, innocent young people will suffer--not only the gay youth but also the previously enrolled Scouts. It's like a teacher punishing the entire class just because one kid screwed up. Of course, in this case neither the gay nor the straight boy scouts did anything wrong at all. They shouldn't be deprived merely because of
    misguided moral indignation.

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    Dance Magic Dance OrphanPip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonywalt View Post
    For what it's worth, and it's worth alot, it important to know why the Southern Baptists broke away from the main Baptist church in the South in the year 1845. As they also thought slavery was important to preserve.

    They have a extra special history of intolerence.
    The Mormons only started allowing Black people to join their church in 1976.
    "If the national mental illness of the United States is megalomania, that of Canada is paranoid schizophrenia."
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    A User, but Registered! tonywalt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanPip View Post
    The Mormons only started allowing Black people to join their church in 1976.
    True, the big difference is that the Southern Baptists are the second largest denomination in US, only after Catholics.

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    Registered User prendrelemick's Avatar
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    It's all labels these days
    ay up

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    Registered User tailor STATELY's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by OrphanPip
    The Mormons only started allowing Black people to join their church in 1976.
    Unequivocally false.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_p...arly_Mormonism

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Mormons

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_Re..._on_Priesthood

    Good discussion AuntShecky.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AuntShecky View Post
    ...innocent young people will suffer--not only the gay youth but also the previously enrolled Scouts. It's like a teacher punishing the entire class just because one kid screwed up. Of course, in this case neither the gay nor the straight boy scouts did anything wrong at all.
    "Gay youth"? Gay is a sexual preference. If these youth are old enough to be sexually active then aren't these youth sleeping in the same tent on camping trips with the straight youth? I remember as a girl scout, I camped with the troop and each tent was shared by 2 girls. I wouldn't feel comfortable with my little girl sleeping in a tent with a gay girl who was sexually active. As far as the Southern Baptist decision goes, I feel like it's none of my business to judge where they choose to tithe. They should tithe wherever they think God's work is needed most. That's up to their own prayerful consideration between themselves and God.
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    Is southern Baptist and actual denomination or is it just Baptists in the south?
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    Two Steps Into Exile Shevek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melanie View Post
    "Gay youth"? Gay is a sexual preference. If these youth are old enough to be sexually active then aren't these youth sleeping in the same tent on camping trips with the straight youth? I remember as a girl scout, I camped with the troop and each tent was shared by 2 girls. I wouldn't feel comfortable with my little girl sleeping in a tent with a gay girl who was sexually active. As far as the Southern Baptist decision goes, I feel like it's none of my business to judge where they choose to tithe. They should tithe wherever they think God's work is needed most. That's up to their own prayerful consideration between themselves and God.
    So all gay youths are sexually active?

    And all sexually active gay youths will elicit sex from straight youths in a camping situation?

    And are you assuming only gay youths will engage in any sexual activity with campers of the same sex? Sexual experiences aren't guided strictly by one's orientation - even if we make the silly assumption that all youths who aren't out are straight.

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    Registered User Delta40's Avatar
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    We must assume therefore that all heterosexual youth are active too. What a pathetic statement to make Melanie.
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    Registered User Melanie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shevek View Post
    So all gay youths are sexually active? And all sexually active gay youths will elicit sex from straight youths in a camping situation?
    And are you assuming only gay youths will engage in any sexual activity with campers of the same sex? Sexual experiences aren't guided strictly by one's orientation - even if we make the silly assumption that all youths who aren't out are straight.
    Don't put words in my mouth. I never used the word "all". I only said "if". The definition of "gay" is a person who is sexually attracted to the same sex. Therefore, as I stated, if my daughter were to share a tent alone with a gay female camper all night I would be uncomfortable with that because the possibility would exist that the gay female camper could be sexually attracted to my daughter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delta40
    We must assume therefore that all heterosexual youth are active too.
    I never said "all". The definition of heterosexual is a person who is sexually attracted to the opposite sex. So when the opportunity presents itself then the possibility of sex could be activated. Notice I removed your snarky comment from your quote...no need for that in an adult discussion.
    Last edited by Melanie; 06-23-2013 at 01:22 AM.
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