Is Celebrating Death Justifiable?

[LitNetIsGreat]

I have just been to my local Sainsbury's convenience store and the figure of £10 million is the headline of the Daily Mirror. Enough said.

Yes she will have probably read it in that.

I've just seen on the news that the exact figure of state expenditure is being kept a close secret until after the funeral. It's a total joke that it is costing us anything, and not a little ironic as I say, that such a firm believer in the private sector is costing the state any money at all. A final little twist of the knife.

Some funny things I've read or seen this week about her that I didn't know:

• She supported white rule and the apartheid in South Africa and called Nelson Mandela a ‘terrorist’
• Believed in the Berlin wall and did not want Germany re-united
• Believed that writers should get a proper job
• Commented that if a man over 25 is still using public transport then he is a failure!

[OrphanPip]

Our current PM, Stephen Harper, also supported apartheid in South Africa during the 80's, it was a popular position of the right-wing at the time.

[The Atheist]

How is anyone served by celebrating the death of another?

The celebration doesn't serve anyone, but I look forward to celebrating the death of Robert Mugabe, for one. Once he's gone, there might be a chance of change in Zimbabwe that does not exist while he lives.

Some people are so evil that I have no compunction celebrating their deaths.

[prendrelemick]

I'm biting my metaphorical tongue after all that utter bo11ox in The House yesterday. (By the way neely, MPs could claim over £3000 each in travel expences to attend.)

I'm not into celebrating the death of anybody, but neither am I into these sugared eulogies. Yesterday we saw History being kidnapped and rewritten. When I die, I'd like an honest appraisal please, as Oliver Cromwell said "Warts and all"




Edit: just seen Glenda Jackson's "tribute" - that's more like it!

[JuniperWoolf]

Our current PM, Stephen Harper, also supported apartheid in South Africa during the 80's, it was a popular position of the right-wing at the time.

Speaking of Harper, he actually said something that I liked (I know, how weird is that?) when Osama was killed. He said that Canadians recieve the news with "somber satisfaction."

That's it, right there. We should conduct ourselves with "somber satisfaction" when people who we believe to have caused harm die, not open jubilation. The only exception I can think of where celebration is warrented is when their death leads to people actually being liberated.

Edit: Also, regarding this specific example, I don't have an opinion on Thatcher's death since I thought she was dead already. She was influential decades ago, her death doesn't affect anything. I think that most people are faking their feelings about her death, the "sympathizers" certainly, but also the celebrants. Thatcher isn't a person who died, she's a symbol of what they either like or don't like, and their actions in light of her death are a reflection of their opinion. So, it's not so much "ghoulish" to me as it is self-stroking, in a completely pointless and admittedly quite tasteless way.

[Emil Miller]

The irony of it all is that if it were to be a state funeral you would have foot the bill regardless of how you feel. Call that democracy more like hypocrisy.

Well said!

I never thought I would see the day.

[LitNetIsGreat]

I'm biting my metaphorical tongue after all that utter bo11ox in The House yesterday. (By the way neely, MPs could claim over £3000 each in travel expences to attend.)

I'm not into celebrating the death of anybody, but neither am I into these sugared eulogies. Yesterday we saw History being kidnapped and rewritten. When I die, I'd like an honest appraisal please, as Oliver Cromwell said "Warts and all"


Edit: just seen Glenda Jackson's "tribute" - that's more like it!

It all just makes me want to leave the country and live in a hole somewhere.

Edit: Yes I've just watched it on You Tube, pretty good no nonsense.

[Paulclem]

I'm biting my metaphorical tongue after all that utter bo11ox in The House yesterday. (By the way neely, MPs could claim over £3000 each in travel expences to attend.)

I'm not into celebrating the death of anybody, but neither am I into these sugared eulogies. Yesterday we saw History being kidnapped and rewritten. When I die, I'd like an honest appraisal please, as Oliver Cromwell said "Warts and all"




Edit: just seen Glenda Jackson's "tribute" - that's more like it!

My thoughts exactly. They Tories are being paticularly hypocritical seeing as they had nothing to do with her after she was deposed, and left it to Gordon Brown to welcome her back.

As Juniper noted - she did support some ver controversial policies - Apartheid and I remember her being dead against German Unification. How wrong that was.

I also think that those who are condemning communities for celebrating her death have no real understanding of what effect her policies had for the ordinary working people in industrial areas, particularly from other countries. She was good for the Yuppies, and very bad for the working class. Of course we needed to change, but communities were treated with contempt. The fact that they were labour strongholds clearly contributed to the lack of compassion for communities they had no contact with - and don't today.

The other thing she was well known for was for stopping school milk. When I was at school we all used to get a small bottle of milk at break time - an overhang from leaner times. We shoud have known what was coming.

[kasie]

There will be a time and a place for assessments of the work of Margaret Thatcher - this isn't it. She isn't even in her grave yet - whatever happened to De mortuis nil nisi bonum? It went out of the window with other expressions of good manners, I think. In the past few years she has been far from the Saviour of the Country/Monstrous Tyrant (depending on from which end of the political spectrum she is viewed): she has been a sad, demented old woman for whom death may well have been a merciful release. I'd like to see her laid to rest in dignity and peace, much as I hope to be treated myself. I've asked for no eulogies at my funeral (I've sat in too many churches and chapels wondering if I'm at the right funeral ) - though I won't be around to find out if my wishes are respected. I don't expect the fulsome gushings of the past few days nor, I hope, will there be too much dancing on my grave: I don't think I've earned either, but I'm not a public figure who inspired widely differing opinions. Difficult though it may be, I feel at this time she should be treated as an ordinary mortal and accorded some basic human dignity.

[Scheherazade]

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[cacian]

My thoughts exactly. They Tories are being paticularly hypocritical seeing as they had nothing to do with her after she was deposed, and left it to Gordon Brown to welcome her back.

As Juniper noted - she did support some ver controversial policies - Apartheid and I remember her being dead against German Unification. How wrong that was.

I also think that those who are condemning communities for celebrating her death have no real understanding of what effect her policies had for the ordinary working people in industrial areas, particularly from other countries. She was good for the Yuppies, and very bad for the working class. Of course we needed to change, but communities were treated with contempt. The fact that they were labour strongholds clearly contributed to the lack of compassion for communities they had no contact with - and don't today.

The other thing she was well known for was for stopping school milk. When I was at school we all used to get a small bottle of milk at break time - an overhang from leaner times. We shoud have known what was coming.

The Tories are putting their foot in it and so is Labour. Their speeches and adoration of and about Maggie is not looking good. Both have forgotten they have elections to run. The population is listening and is not thinking great things of both of them. Their views an opinions on Maggie is going to backlash against them. and it would be both the tories and labour fault for not thinking ahead of schedule. UKIP's prospect is looking good. Not very clever if you ask me.

[prendrelemick]

There will be a time and a place for assessments of the work of Margaret Thatcher - this isn't it. She isn't even in her grave yet - whatever happened to De mortuis nil nisi bonum? It went out of the window with other expressions of good manners, I think. In the past few years she has been far from the Saviour of the Country/Monstrous Tyrant (depending on from which end of the political spectrum she is viewed): she has been a sad, demented old woman for whom death may well have been a merciful release. I'd like to see her laid to rest in dignity and peace, much as I hope to be treated myself. I've asked for no eulogies at my funeral (I've sat in too many churches and chapels wondering if I'm at the right funeral ) - though I won't be around to find out if my wishes are respected. I don't expect the fulsome gushings of the past few days nor, I hope, will there be too much dancing on my grave: I don't think I've earned either, but I'm not a public figure who inspired widely differing opinions. Difficult though it may be, I feel at this time she should be treated as an ordinary mortal and accorded some basic human dignity.

Before this thread is closed down, I 'd just like to say Kasie's right as usual.

[YesNo]

I'm not into celebrating the death of anybody, but neither am I into these sugared eulogies. Yesterday we saw History being kidnapped and rewritten. When I die, I'd like an honest appraisal please, as Oliver Cromwell said "Warts and all"

The "celebration" of someone's death should probably be rephrased as an "anti-eulogy" so that an opposing position can be presented.

[prendrelemick]

Truelogy?

[YesNo]

Ah, truelogy. That's what every eulogy and anti-eulogy thinks it is already.

The creation of history reminds me of a study of Samuel and Kings portraying the documents as propaganda justifying Solomon's right to rule after his military coup. All other accounts were eliminated. It would be as if only eulogies to Thatcher were allowed to survive.

At least today we have the internet to record dissent.

I'm planning to see The Iron Lady this weekend. Did this movie fairly represent Thatcher?