Have We Crossed The Rubicon?

[tonywalt]

I think it's more a matter of our Technology has surpassed our Humanity. If you really think about what that means both negative and positive - it's pretty incredible and has both positive and negative features.

[Red Hot Soho]

Its hard for me to discuss this because I threw idealism out the door at age 13.

We are imperfectly evolved/created mammals and so the system we create is going to be in many respects harsh and stupid. To want something more is to want human nature and FATE ITSELF to suddenly alter.

If you actually study history, as I've spent years doing, you see that all these issues about inequality and lack of resources are simply par for the course. They've always been and always will be. Things like climate and geography and resource allocation and power dynamics are beyond the control of these people you believe control the strings.

If you really care then go become an activist. Otherwise get to work taking care of yourself and the ones you love because this world is a nasty place and fate favours the strong.

{edit}

Sherlock, how about next time you tell me something I don't know? Humanity has been corrupted for countless centuries, well done! Did it take you years of history research to work that one out? The argument 'Always has been and always will be' is pathetically weak, I don't even register such non-sense. The reason why we lack resources is because the hidden hand profits from it. It's actually pretty simple if you take a step back and look at things for what they are.

Become an activist? Along with all these useless, passive aggressive and heartless sacks of water shouting 'Look at me! I'm different!'? No thank you, I'd rather just make my own mind up and be satisfied that if I ruled the world my ideal would become a reality for all.

Your lack of confidence in your worldly peers is frightening, I suggest you begin traveling, maybe you'll find beauty.

[Calidore]

Where the shadow cabal argument falls down is in its proclamation of "control" where influence is the truth. People don't need a "hidden hand" to force them to conform; they do it naturally, as any social animal does. Some alphas rise above and the rest follow willingly. People can't be controlled, but they can be influenced.

The media and entertainment industries, like any business, are driven by profit. They do try different things when they see potential profit there. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. If the media giants could control people, they would never fail, but they do regularly. Some innovations aren't accepted by the people, and some are and are then beaten into the ground until they're not innovative anymore.

You make a profit, or gain political power, by understanding individual and group psychology and convincing them to buy what you're selling.

{edit}

Darcy was correct when he talked about history and nature. Why do you think neither matters?

[E.A Rumfield]

Where the shadow cabal argument falls down is in its proclamation of "control" where influence is the truth. People don't need a "hidden hand" to force them to conform; they do it naturally, as any social animal does. Some alphas rise above and the rest follow willingly. People can't be controlled, but they can be influenced.

The media and entertainment industries, like any business, are driven by profit. They do try different things when they see potential profit there. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. If the media giants could control people, they would never fail, but they do regularly. Some innovations aren't accepted by the people, and some are and are then beaten into the ground until they're not innovative anymore.

You make a profit, or gain political power, by understanding individual and group psychology and convincing them to buy what you're selling.

{edit}

Darcy was correct when he talked about history and nature. Why do you think neither matters?

Human beings are more like wolves than ants. Ants live in a large rigidly structured colony well wolves live in small groups and some individuals are known to roam largely alone except to mate. Human beings began just like wolves in small packs or alone. To live in such a large and overwhelming civilization is detrimental to the individual even if they themselves don't realize it. Also I believe human beings are capable of great things it only takes time. Great ideas aren't realized over night they take a life time of thought and experience something that people today seem not to realize. We live in a push of a button world.

[Darcy88]

Human beings are more like wolves than ants. Ants live in a large rigidly structured colony well wolves live in small groups and some individuals are known to roam largely alone except to mate. Human beings began just like wolves in small packs or alone. To live in such a large and overwhelming civilization is detrimental to the individual even if they themselves don't realize it. Also I believe human beings are capable of great things it only takes time. Great ideas aren't realized over night they take a life time of thought and experience something that people today seem not to realize. We live in a push of a button world.

First off, Calidore expressed better the sentiment I am trying to express. Well done Calidore and thank you.

Now Rumfield.... Human beings are social animals. We do have that wolfish side, but our brains are fundamentally social. We actually are more like ants or sheep than wolves. This is obvious everywhere you look. I love solitude. I spend more time in solitude than the overwhelming bulk of my peers, but I must remain connected, have friends and family who I can talk to, enjoy spending time with. If you go and literally live like a wolf you will find your life is more in tune with truth and beauty and God, but you will be unutterably lonely. I know this because I've lived as a man on the town and as a hermit.

Also, so what if you can imagine a more perfect world. Either accept the world as it is or go out and try in some small or great way to change it. Just smiling at someone, just letting someone talk to you about their problems, just taking the bus instead of buying a car, just working a regular job, do all contribute to the betterment of the world.

And you can take refuge in nature and in art. These problems that haunt us, these manifestations of societal madness and stupidity, do not reach you when you are out in nature or are absorbed in the creation or the enjoyment of art.

Stoicism is another answer. Just say to yourself "So what!" There will always be suffering and stupidity, the two great curses, to torment us if we allow them to. Its best to just get on with life.

[Scheherazade]

~

W a r n i n g

Please do not personalise your discussions.

Posts containing inflammatory and/or personal comments have been and will be removed without further notice.

~

[cafolini]

First off, Calidore expressed better the sentiment I am trying to express. Well done Calidore and thank you.

Now Rumfield.... Human beings are social animals. We do have that wolfish side, but our brains are fundamentally social. We actually are more like ants or sheep than wolves. This is obvious everywhere you look. I love solitude. I spend more time in solitude than the overwhelming bulk of my peers, but I must remain connected, have friends and family who I can talk to, enjoy spending time with. If you go and literally live like a wolf you will find your life is more in tune with truth and beauty and God, but you will be unutterably lonely. I know this because I've lived as a man on the town and as a hermit.

Also, so what if you can imagine a more perfect world. Either accept the world as it is or go out and try in some small or great way to change it. Just smiling at someone, just letting someone talk to you about their problems, just taking the bus instead of buying a car, just working a regular job, do all contribute to the betterment of the world.

And you can take refuge in nature and in art. These problems that haunt us, these manifestations of societal madness and stupidity, do not reach you when you are out in nature or are absorbed in the creation or the enjoyment of art.

Stoicism is another answer. Just say to yourself "So what!" There will always be suffering and stupidity, the two great curses, to torment us if we allow them to. Its best to just get on with life.

Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent.
R. D. Laing

We live in a moment of history where change is so speeded up that we begin to see the present only when it is already disappearing.
R. D. Laing

Insanity - a perfectly rational adjustment to an insane world.
R. D. Laing

Some very good points as usual, Darcy.

[E.A Rumfield]

Insanity - a perfectly rational adjustment to an insane world.

Huxley said something very similar that I posted on the first page.

[cafolini]

I think it's more a matter of our Technology has surpassed our Humanity. If you really think about what that means both negative and positive - it's pretty incredible and has both positive and negative features.

So the consequence is that there will be people who know less and less and people who know more and more. But knowledge or ignorance will not do it for anyone. There will be nothing beyond them, guaranteed 100%. So only love for all. Love forever will win our battles.

[Darcy88]

So the consequence is that there will be people who know less and less and people who know more and more. But knowledge or ignorance will not do it for anyone. There will be nothing beyond them, guaranteed 100%. So only love for all. Love forever will win our battles.

In insight and in attitude this post shines, revealing its author, you Cafolini, to be a human being of true wisdom.

[Alexander III]

First off, Calidore expressed better the sentiment I am trying to express. Well done Calidore and thank you.

Now Rumfield.... Human beings are social animals. We do have that wolfish side, but our brains are fundamentally social. We actually are more like ants or sheep than wolves. This is obvious everywhere you look. I love solitude. I spend more time in solitude than the overwhelming bulk of my peers, but I must remain connected, have friends and family who I can talk to, enjoy spending time with. If you go and literally live like a wolf you will find your life is more in tune with truth and beauty and God, but you will be unutterably lonely. I know this because I've lived as a man on the town and as a hermit.

Also, so what if you can imagine a more perfect world. Either accept the world as it is or go out and try in some small or great way to change it. Just smiling at someone, just letting someone talk to you about their problems, just taking the bus instead of buying a car, just working a regular job, do all contribute to the betterment of the world.

And you can take refuge in nature and in art. These problems that haunt us, these manifestations of societal madness and stupidity, do not reach you when you are out in nature or are absorbed in the creation or the enjoyment of art.

Stoicism is another answer. Just say to yourself "So what!" There will always be suffering and stupidity, the two great curses, to torment us if we allow them to. Its best to just get on with life.

I know you just found christianity and are probably enjoying the whole "turn the other cheek" phase, but you are being ridicoulsly apologetic and diplomatic here. And the result is not civil discourse, but instead a stupid set of ideas which because no one is willing to be blunt and say quite simply and unaplogeticaly "that is stupid" these ideas are forgiven of their ignorance, and thus tolerated. Just because we are in an egalitarian society doesn't mean a stupid opinion deserves the same respect as an intelligent one.

[cafolini]

[QUOTE=Alexander III;1164311]I know you just found christianity and are probably enjoying the whole "turn the other cheek" phase, but you are being ridicoulsly apologetic and diplomatic here. And the result is not civil discourse, but instead a stupid set of ideas which because no one is willing to be blunt and say quite simply and unaplogeticaly "that is stupid" these ideas are forgiven of their ignorance, and thus tolerated. Just because we are in an egalitarian society doesn't mean a stupid opinion deserves the same respect as an intelligent one.[/QUOTE

Alexander.That was very insulting, and not backed by any argument at all. Sorry.

[Freudian Monkey]

I know you just found christianity and are probably enjoying the whole "turn the other cheek" phase, but you are being ridicoulsly apologetic and diplomatic here. And the result is not civil discourse, but instead a stupid set of ideas which because no one is willing to be blunt and say quite simply and unaplogeticaly "that is stupid" these ideas are forgiven of their ignorance, and thus tolerated. Just because we are in an egalitarian society doesn't mean a stupid opinion deserves the same respect as an intelligent one.

If you are going to insult someone, do it like a real gentleman. You have a lot to learn from Darcy here.

[Alexander III]

[QUOTE=cafolini;1164329]

Alexander.That was very insulting, and not backed by any argument at all. Sorry.

I was not referring to your post but to this one bellow:

{edit}

Sherlock, how about next time you tell me something I don't know? Humanity has been corrupted for countless centuries, well done! Did it take you years of history research to work that one out? The argument 'Always has been and always will be' is pathetically weak, I don't even register such non-sense. The reason why we lack resources is because the hidden hand profits from it. It's actually pretty simple if you take a step back and look at things for what they are.

Become an activist? Along with all these useless, passive aggressive and heartless sacks of water shouting 'Look at me! I'm different!'? No thank you, I'd rather just make my own mind up and be satisfied that if I ruled the world my ideal would become a reality for all.

Your lack of confidence in your worldly peers is frightening, I suggest you begin traveling, maybe you'll find beauty.

[Darcy88]

I know you just found christianity and are probably enjoying the whole "turn the other cheek" phase, but you are being ridicoulsly apologetic and diplomatic here. And the result is not civil discourse, but instead a stupid set of ideas which because no one is willing to be blunt and say quite simply and unaplogeticaly "that is stupid" these ideas are forgiven of their ignorance, and thus tolerated. Just because we are in an egalitarian society doesn't mean a stupid opinion deserves the same respect as an intelligent one.

Anger has been my ruin. Its not Christianity that makes me try to be a peace-maker, its the fact that I can so easily fly off the handle and go at an ignorant person like a rabid dog that makes me try with incredible effort to remain civil. Every time I turn on the television or go out and hear the talk on the street I am put to agony by the sheer thoughtlessness that seems to everywhere abound. I can let it eat me up, as I used to, or I can accept that the bulk of people operate under many false assumptions, arrive at many blundering conclusions, and if I do not want my soul to choke to death on the errors of others I have to not let it get to me. Plus, as soon as you attack someone they immediately dig a trench and instead of coming over to your position begin hurling hurtful words at you in return.

Now back to the topic at hand....... people have to become more Stoic. I am a person of deep empathy, I turn on the news, see people getting shot to death or killed by some disaster, and I often cry. But thus is the world. An arena for the gods in which mankind, as individuals and as a whole, is tormented, driven to depths of misery. The only answer is outward stoicism, and an inward appreciation for the finer things such as art and love and knowledge. We must all construct within ourselves a castle, a place of refuge from the great storm of suffering and stupidity which has raged, does rage and shall eternally rage. Art and love are my two primary avenues of coping with the state of things.

Fate is omnipotent in so far as it is beyond the control of any single or any group of men. Mankind will always be divided by geography and politics and a long assortment of other things. We are the way we are, we individuals, because of what happened a hundred, a thousand, a million years ago. We can fight fate, crusade against fate, or we can accept it and then go on to make the best of it. Making the best of fate really is the great cause every person should undertake. Because no matter how starkly awful one's fate may seem, there is still much room for personal growth and - there is love, there is art.

If I could get people to recite any mantra it would be that last one - THERE IS LOVE, THERE IS ART. THERE IS LOVE, THERE IS ART. LIFE AIN'T ALL THAT BAD!