Homosexuality

[stlukesguild]

Hell... I though Odysseus was married to Penelope... or were they just shacking up?

Of course they are fictive characters, but one would assume that they are based upon reality.

There are also any number of references to marriage, husbands and wives in the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) that predates Christ by quite some time in many instances.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

It goes to show how civilisation such as the greeks who exceeded in art and architect and yet manage to drop a bomb on their own cultured self by running aroung naked in arenas without a care in the world. So much knowledge and wealth and nothing to show for it or at leat in the clothing department. One would feel for very sorry for those fashionistas who would have spend hours on end trying to execute artistic designs to impress their rulers only to find out it was wasted on these nude wannabe fit.

This all quite confusing, but hilariously so.

there are no records of marriage certificates but there are thousands of books and literary material dating back to the pharoahs even.

So, is marriage a "fairly newish" concept or not? At one point you say it wasn't around until after Christ, and now you're saying it existed during the existence of the Pharoahs. Which is it?

[Scheherazade]

He also reportedly died at a weeding feast.

*utterly shocked*

Not at a weeding feast! I wonder what Paul's neighbourly allotment group would say about that...

[Darcy88]

It goes to show how civilisation such as the greeks who exceeded in art and architect and yet manage to drop a bomb on their own cultured self by running aroung naked in arenas without a care in the world. So much knowledge and wealth and nothing to show for it or at leat in the clothing department. One would feel for very sorry for those fashionistas who would have spend hours on end trying to execute artistic designs to impress their rulers only to find out it was wasted on these nude wannabe fit.

What does this mean? What were you attempting to convey here?

The Greeks dominated much of the mediterranean world, conquering the greatest empire of antiquity - the persian. They left a literature that baffles in all areas - drama, philosophy, history, poetry. Their culture was in many ways picked up and expanded upon by the Romans. The Greeks formed many of the central pillars of Western culture, without that land's existence and action throughout history our culture would be unrecognizable. They took beauty and knowledge and war-making and showed that part of the world how they were done.

So to insult them as a bunch of nude bisexuals is quite frankly inane.

[Revolte]

[QUOTE=tonywalt;1158125]

Damn, should I stop working out nude?

That is not a trend I would want to suffer myself, so no.

So, is marriage a "fairly newish" concept or not? At one point you say it wasn't around until after Christ, and now you're saying it existed during the existence of the Pharoahs. Which is it?

The concept of marriage has morphed throughout history. Today Christianity still reigns as the supreme religion in popular/political culture. So in the context of today's structure and system of marriage then yes it wasn't around until after the church.

Remember Jesus did not construct christian marriage, nor did Jesus really do much of anything other then radical and less radical political and social demonstrations. With of course a little bit of religion thrown into the mix.

But as it appears in text, Jesus is more or less a knock off of Horas.

I don't think Jesus's name should be brought up into the concept of Marriage anyhow, as it was the people who structured, maintained and created the religiously imposed law. The church has always had a great deal of say in cultural rule sets. Just as it does today with religion being implemented into election propaganda.

However, that isn't to say that before Christianity was a full on religion, that there weren't other forms of marriage.

Religion is only one aspect of influence on marriage. Without political worth, there would be no such thing.

With that being said the assumption that marriage has a universal set of rules is inaccurate. As other cultures, other religions and of course politics have decide relative generalized morality and importance of marriage and similar relationships throughout the ages.

[JuniperWoolf]

So to insult them as a bunch of nude bisexuals is quite frankly inane.

I don't think she was insulting them, it seems that she was saying that to be a nude bisexual doesn't preclude being brilliant. Just saying that a culture has a tendancy towards nudity and bisexuality isn't an insult.

She's incorrect about marriage though, of course it's been around since before the new testament. Actually the new testament barely mentions marriage in any form, nothing about it's "sanctity" or anything of the sort, the only place where it's talked about is when Jesus turned water into wine during a wedding feast (seriously, that's it). It does call homosexuals "unclean" and "abominations" though.

[Alexander III]

The other day I was casually strolling around wikipedia and discovered something that would be of interest to the thread. In ancient Rome, starting during the late republic and lasting until the majority rise of christianity, gay male couples would get married. This was a marriage which from a religious perspective was deemed recognizable but from a legal perspective was not recognized. This is because roman culture was uber-patrirchal, yet this sexual stoicness was severely undermined by the conquest of greece which brought along with art and culture many other tendencies of the greeks. So male roman couples could get married with all the religious rites and priests, but under roman law they would not be married because a true roman would never take it up the ***.

[Bluehound]

Oh and about the bible, what about that missing part they found in 'Red Dwarf' that explains a lot.

Hahaha I blummin love Red Dwarf and this is one of my favorite bits.

There is a new series coming soon, can't wait

[cacian]

This all quite confusing, but hilariously so.

glad you found a glimer of hilariousness in it we can't be bearing seriousness all the time.

So, is marriage a "fairly newish" concept or not? At one point you say it wasn't around until after Christ, and now you're saying it existed during the existence of the Pharoahs. Which is it?

I said that marriage to me must be a fairly newish concept only established itself with the coming of the bible. Christianity and Islam introduced marriage as a sacrilege act in the sight of god because it meant it would
be the ticket to entering heaven. Marriage is one the pillar of Islam. Before these two main religions there was no concept of heaven and hell but there was, as in the time of the Pharoahs ,the concept of the afterlife which did not demand marriage to achieve it. As we have seen it the Pharoahs had instead with their burials offerings and the idea of gifts to the Gods meant that they would reach the afterlife after they had passed away.
For this very reason I do not believe marriage was around before that.
You do not have to believe it but this is my own interpretation of an institution such as marriage

What does this mean? What were you attempting to convey here?

The Greeks dominated much of the mediterranean world, conquering the greatest empire of antiquity - the persian. They left a literature that baffles in all areas - drama, philosophy, history, poetry. Their culture was in many ways picked up and expanded upon by the Romans. The Greeks formed many of the central pillars of Western culture, without that land's existence and action throughout history our culture would be unrecognizable. They took beauty and knowledge and war-making and showed that part of the world how they were done.

So to insult them as a bunch of nude bisexuals is quite frankly inane.

Ah. I never said bisexuals I said ''wannabe fit'' sexuality has nothing to do with it. I am not trying to convey anything. I am stating something I feel need to be said. If someone going to expose themselves in this way then there will be comments made by others who view this kind of behaviour as unacceptable.
Running naked is normally an act of maddness and as far as I know that's what mad people do. I speak from experience I have come close a couple of people who went unfortunatly mad and in their first sign of maddness they had taken to the street naked . That is the truth and such a shocking one I could never forget it.

[Alexander III]

glad you found a glimer of hilariousness in it we can't be bearing seriousness all the time.

I said that marriage to me must be a fairly newish concept only established itself with the coming of the bible.Christianity and Islam introduced marriage as a sacrilege act in the sight of god because it meant it would
be the ticket to enter heaven. Marriage is one the pillar in Islam. Before these two main religions there was no such a concept as heaven or hell but there was as in the time of the Pharoahs the concept of the afterlife which did not demand marriage to ener it.
For this very reason I do not believe marriage was around before that.



Ah. I never said bisexuals I said ''wannabe fit'' sexuality has nothing to do with it. I am not trying to convey anything. I am stating something I feel need to be said. If someone going to expose themselves in this way then there will be comments made by others who view this kind of behaviour as unacceptable.
Running naked is normally an act of maddness and as far as I know that's what mad people do. I speak from experience I have come close a couple of people who went unfortunatly mad and in their first sign of maddness they had taken to the street naked . That is the truth and such a shocking one I could never forget it.

Sure, why not, I agree with everything you said.

[Darcy88]

glad you found a glimer of hilariousness in it we can't be bearing seriousness all the time.

I said that marriage to me must be a fairly newish concept only established itself with the coming of the bible. Christianity and Islam introduced marriage as a sacrilege act in the sight of god because it meant it would
be the ticket to entering heaven. Marriage is one the pillar of Islam. Before these two main religions there was no concept of heaven and hell but there was, as in the time of the Pharoahs ,the concept of the afterlife which did not demand marriage to achieve it. As we have seen it the Pharoahs had instead with their burials offerings and the idea of gifts to the Gods meant that they would reach the afterlife after they had passed away.
For this very reason I do not believe marriage was around before that.
You do not have to believe it but this is my own interpretation of an institution such as marriage



Ah. I never said bisexuals I said ''wannabe fit'' sexuality has nothing to do with it. I am not trying to convey anything. I am stating something I feel need to be said. If someone going to expose themselves in this way then there will be comments made by others who view this kind of behaviour as unacceptable.
Running naked is normally an act of maddness and as far as I know that's what mad people do. I speak from experience I have come close a couple of people who went unfortunatly mad and in their first sign of maddness they had taken to the street naked . That is the truth and such a shocking one I could never forget it.

[Alexander III]

Oh come on Scher, why does he get to post his funny picture and I don't?

[cacian]

Sure, why not, I agree with everything you said.

Agree? who asked you to agree this is an open forum I am merely adding my views on the topic agreeing or not is not the point.
Freedom and speech and all that.

LOL I give you that this is too funny

[TurquoiseSunset]

Some of you began discussing the differences on what many Christians believe about the Bible. I just wanted to reiterate, many other Christians have an adjenda. If they come across something that they personally disagree with or thing they have a "better" idea on, they'll either ignore the passage completely or find some other way to "explain" it so that they can continue on with what they believe. I don't do this. If I don't understand something in the Bible, I study it deeper. I'll even look up the meanings of the original Greek or Hebrew words if I have to. I don't change the Bible to fit me. I try to change me to fit the Bible.

Since I was very small I was taught (not by my parents though) that heteros = good (heaven) and homos = bad (hell). I became friends at school with people who were homosexual and I felt very conflicted about the whole business at times. Here I had some awesome friends, who are good people, but the only thing was, that they were gay, which was obviously wrong.

It was a process… First I thought that, fine, homosexuality is a sin, but I’m also a sinner, so I can’t judge. They are not actually hurting anyone and their life choices are theirs to makes, etc etc.

Then after a time I started believing that they were all borne that way. In the beginning this was difficult for me, because I was taught homosexuality was a sin, so why would God create homosexuals? I’ve known some of my gay friends since we were little. You could tell even then, even when none of us knew about sexuality of any sort. They have all said that they’ve always been like that…ever since they can remember. I truly believe that. I saw it.

So if they were borne that way I was presented with a different problem. God created them that way. Now, some people I know have argued that people can become gay because of satanic or demonic influences they were exposed to as babies, in the mother’s womb (because of Free Masonry in the family and all that or other similar jazz) and so on. I don’t have evidence to prove otherwise but I honestly disagree with that notion. I couldn’t see any more bad in my friends than I did in myself.

So basically I felt that if God created them and they were most probably NOT possessed, then maybe he made them homosexual because that is part of their set of challenges they get in life. Mine’s just different.

Then I started doing research about the passages that reference homosexuality. I also looked at the Greek and Hebrew meanings and structure of the words as well as the historical context (like some have mentioned) as well as other people’s opinions (lay and ‘expert’) on the subject. Turns out all of those passages can be and have been interpreted in all kinds of ways. My point is all the interpretations are a bit fuzzy and none of us can really be sure about the original meaning of those passages or words. You chose to believe something and I chose to believe something different.

So, to get back to your comments, I don’t personally disagree with the Bible, I disagree with the interpretation of it, or parts of it. I don’t have an agenda other than wanting to know all the facts, so to speak. I 'believe' in the Bible as much as you…just not in the same way.

You do get people who obviously misquote or twist the interpretation to suit them, but I just want you to understand that not everyone who disagrees with certain interpretations have those intentions. So some of us who challenge or disagree with your beliefs don't necessarily try to change the Bible to fit our beliefs, but some of us also try to fit ourselves to the Bible (to use your words).

[cacian]

What does this mean? What were you attempting to convey here?

The Greeks dominated much of the mediterranean world, conquering the greatest empire of antiquity - the persian. They left a literature that baffles in all areas - drama, philosophy, history, poetry. Their culture was in many ways picked up and expanded upon by the Romans. The Greeks formed many of the central pillars of Western culture, without that land's existence and action throughout history our culture would be unrecognizable. They took beauty and knowledge and war-making and showed that part of the world how they were done.

So to insult them as a bunch of nude bisexuals is quite frankly inane.

Can I just politely add this for another piece of information regarding the Greeks made to gymnast in the nude.
Just so you now that these greek ''bisexuals' with all due respects to them, were made to gymnast/exrcise in the nude. They did not have a choice over the matter.
It is a bit like the nazis with the Jews there was forced nudity in the camps.
The same recurrant awful treatment.