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Hi everyone, I need help in developing a thesis for a comparative essay between 'Pride and Prejudice' and 'Emma'. I have been working on it for a while, but havent come up with anything that will make a good impact in the essay. Your help will be highly appreciated.
thanks
I haven't read Emma in 8 years, and don't remember anything about it,Quote:
Originally Posted by smilingalways
so I don't have an opinion myself, but this website has a synopsis on each of the books,
and if you were to read them,
it might give you some valuable ideas.
Here are the links to the 2 pages.
http://www.online-literature.com/austen/prideprejudice/
http://www.online-literature.com/austen/emma/
Unfortunately, the synopsis on Emma is significantly shorter than the other.
Perhaps you could find a synopsis of Emma somewhere else online.
This would give you an idea of the most significant points of each story,
and hopefully, you would see a similarity in order to find a strong thesis for your essay.
My own opinion after reading the synopsis on Emma is that the presence of "meddlesome"
people trying to get spouses for other people is something the 2 books have in common.
And of course, the underlying assumption that one must marry.
thank you
Write something about Elizabeth's need to get married versus Emma's reluctance to get married.
Isn't Elizabeth also reluctant to get married?Quote:
Originally Posted by JBI
She turned down 2 marriage proposals.
While her mother and sisters may have "needed" her to marry a rich husband,
she apparently was not moved by their need.
I am unfamiliar with Emma's situation.
Can someone please tell me if there are any similarities between Emma and Liz?
They're both really stubborn. :P And both have the uncontrollable inclination to reject respectable, religious men.
I beg to differ, I apologize.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorian Gray
I didn't think that the fact that Mr. Collins was religious had anything to do with Lizzy being unable to accept his offer of marriage.
Lizzy was willing to marry a man who was her intellectual equal and for whom she felt "love". Lizzie thought Mr. Collins "ridiculous". We know that Lizzie was the clever one in her family, and that Mr. Collins was not even as clever as Mary, Lizzie's sister.
Perhaps the similarity is that they were both proposed to by a clergyman and they both turned him down.
Not only that, but both clergymen immediately went to secure a wife elsewhere after they were refused, and afterwards rubbed the girls' noses in it a bit.
I don't know what Emma thought about her suitor, or what she wanted in a husband.
hello, a fan also of P&P, maybe not as knowledgeable, found Emma dull reading. Both Liz and E are independent thinkers and totally unaware that they are in love until said man is almost lost to them. Only then do they realize that he was their match.Quote:
Originally Posted by smilingalways
I have not read Emma nor seen the movies, but I just read a brief character description online.Quote:
Originally Posted by smilingalways
Lizzie is clever and probably of average beauty since she was not handsome enough to tempt Mr. Darcy to dance, (but since he hates dancing, one can only assume even Jane's beauty would not have tempted him.)Quote:
Emma Woodhouse: The daughter of Mr. Woodhouse, and sister to Isabella.
Emma is beautiful, clever, and rich.
Lizzie is not rich.
Lizzie walks 3 miles to care for her sister when she is sick. We can probably say they have this in common.Quote:
She can be generous and caring, as in her behavior to her father and the poor family she visits.
Lizzie does not always suppress her honesty either.Quote:
But she is also a snob, and she does not always suppress her honesty.
I'm not sure if Lizzie is a "snob" but we know she is prideful and quick to judge others unfavorably if offended.
I do not recall any similarity here.Quote:
She has good intentions with Harriet Smith, whom she befriends and tries to improve.
Lizzie does not do this, though it could be said that her mother does.Quote:
Emma has a strong imagination, and it often gets her in trouble. She loves matchmaking, and she looks so hard for clues that she will often manufacture them.
Lizzie is not a gossip.Quote:
She also likes to gossip
I don't believe this presents a similarity either.Quote:
She is a romantic, and this attention to the hearts of others keeps her from examining her own.
This "later realization that she is in love" happens to Lizzie when opinion of Darcy changes after he acts in a way totally opposite from how she had previously judged him.Quote:
When she does, she realizes that she loves Mr. Knightley. He loves her too, and they marry.
This is very interesting to me. This very same thing happens to Mr. Darcy after Elizabeth reprimands him for not behaving in a "more gentleman-like manner". He reforms! He changes his ways, becoming more friendly and sociable.Quote:
Emma Woodhouse experiences a great reversal in character. When she insults Miss Bates at Box Hill, Mr. Knightley's reprimand really shames her. Emma reexamines not just this, but all her behavior.
This is the link from where I copied the description.
http://www.bookrags.com/notes/emma/CHR.html
That's what I meant. It was just an observation.Quote:
Originally Posted by sciencefan
This sounds like a good estimation.Quote:
Originally Posted by mazz
Ah. No offense meant. Just trying to help with the particulars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorian Gray
The difference is Elizabeth must marry for financial security, since her estate is passing on to Mr. Collins, and not to someone in her family, thereby leaving her penniless, and with low prospects (that is why her mother is so pushing for her to marry Mr. Collins, since that would fix the financial problem for the family). Emma on the other hand comes from money, and instead of thinking of marriage for herself, contents herself by playing matchmaker for her friends, and sometimes ruining them.
The key difference is the finance. Emma has money, and is the first Austen heroine who comes from money, and therefore isn't obligated/compelled to get married. Elizabeth on the other hand realizes the need for marriage, though she is reluctant to marry someone insensible, and too proud sometimes to see what is best.
I agree with you. Well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBI
I find that the best understanding of Pride and Prejudice and of Emma lies in the titles chosen by Austen. The polysyllable one contrast with the abruptness of the other. In analogy of wine, the former is like Bordeaux while the latter is like Ice wine, picked when the frost has concentrated the flavor. Elizabeth is youth exploring possibilities while Emma is approaching spinsterhood without much understanding of her role in the Arcadian setting that is Austen's world. The scaffolding in both novels is marriage but the descriptive irony in Pride and Prejudice is structured on the minor characters while in Ema it is concentrated on the heroine herself. In Emma, Austen is surer of her skill, rarefies with a finer sieve.
Elizabeth is enchanting, mischievous and beloved by the majority of readers, while Emma is almost nasty. Both moderate their exuberance, marry older men of wealth. Cap their flowing hair with a mob cap and assume their place in the respectability and order that Austen sought as the English eden.
dear newcomer, did you really read what jbi or sciencefan wrote? They get it, you don't. Fine if you don't like the books but to me it seems you missed something and analyzed it sarcastically. Lizzie did not lose her exuberance and she was 20 and Darcy was only 28 or 29 I think, an older man ?? It's not about marriage it's about the journey. Or were you being funny?
That's a very interesting observation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcomer
I didn't realize that Emma was so much older. I thought she was not married because she did not need the money.Quote:
In analogy of wine, the former is like Bordeaux while the latter is like Ice wine, picked when the frost has concentrated the flavor. Elizabeth is youth exploring possibilities while Emma is approaching spinsterhood without much understanding of her role in the Arcadian setting that is Austen's world.
Ah yes. Austen shows us the very interesting ways the people of her times approached the idea of marriage.Quote:
The scaffolding in both novels is marriage
Since I have not read Emma recently, I did not remember this.Quote:
but the descriptive irony in Pride and Prejudice is structured on the minor characters while in Emma it is concentrated on the heroine herself.
I was unaware of this. I will pay closer attention to it next time I read it.Quote:
In Emma, Austen is surer of her skill, rarefies with a finer sieve.
I did not remember this either. I have read that she is meddlesome. Is she like Elizabeth Bennett's mother in that way?Quote:
Elizabeth is enchanting, mischievous and beloved by the majority of readers, while Emma is almost nasty.
I did not get the impression that Elizabeth would ever be "tamed" to that extent. I think she has every intention of being true to herself. Neither do I think Darcy wants her to change.Quote:
Both moderate their exuberance, marry older men of wealth. Cap their flowing hair with a mob cap and assume their place in the respectability and order that Austen sought as the English eden.
I don't recall much about Emma, though recently reading other opinions that she was meddlesome in other people's affairs, and that she had learned a severe lesson and reformed, much in the same way Darcy did, one can only hope that Emma will stay reformed.
Dearest Mazz,
You may be correct 'that I don't get it' but I am ready to learn especially from a perspective from the Antipodes. And as to being sarcastic I certainly did not intend to maliciously laugh at someone, even simplest humor escapes me since like Mr. Collins I have to compose any witticisms in advance. I do not know Darcy's age, I would have guessed thirtyish, but then from my perspective anybody over sixteen is an older man. Would you not agree? Now if Darcy was sixteen, that would have been an interesting match!!! Why should Wickham have all the fun?
Hope to hear from you soon. In the meantime let's raise a glass of Shiraz to the Austen's ladies. Or do you prefer Yellow Tail?
.... sciencefan,
It would seem that I have a more pedantic than enthusiastic way of reading Austen: while I delight in Elizabeth and am amused by Emma, the novel itself is more interesting than the heroines. So I will defer in advance to your opinion as to the realism and emotional depth of the two young women. Only supposing that Austen was conscious of the contrasts and that the self awareness of her art had progressed, as I find Emma the more interesting novel.
I took Emma to be older than Elizabeth as she engages in meddling matchmaking, an occupation of an older woman such as Mrs Benett in P&P. But where Mrs. Benett is motherly, Emma is smugly self centered. She has an unpleasantly class conscious in her matchmaking. In the case of Harriet Smith, described as "the natural daughter of somebody" it is Emma's belief that Mr. Martin, a farmer, is beneath her, not quite a gentleman. In the case of Jane Fairfax, Emma, envies Jane Fairfax's talent and somewhat dislikes her. But the worst is when Emma thoughtlessly insult to Miss Bates and Mr. Knightley scolds her bad manners.
Of Emma, Austen wrote, "I am going to take a heroine whom no-one but myself will much like."
“I did not get the impression that Elizabeth would ever be "tamed" to that extent. I think she has every intention of being true to herself. Neither do I think Darcy wants her to change.”
I hope not ' Elizabeth would ever be "tamed”' but as Jane in the Wright's dramatization remarked – when some man catches your eye, you will have to tame your tongue. - only that, no more. Elizabeth in marriage, “Georgiana had the highest opinion in the world of Elizabeth; though at first she often listened with astonishment bordering on alarm at her lively, sportive manner of talking to her brother. He who had always inspired in her a respect which almost overcame her affection, she now saw the object of open pleasantry. Her mind received knowledge which had newer before fallen her way. By Elizabeth's instructions she began to comprehend that a woman may take liberties with her husband that a brother will not always allow in a sister more than ten years younger than himself.” Thus in Austen view marriage did not 'tame' Lizzy.
Pleased and grateful for your comments. Now to dinner of Boston baked beans. The pilgrims considered lobster as servant's food.
i have composed several responses but keep being rejected by this system am really ready for that glass of shiraz now, will test this before I try writing again
ah huh. thanks for the reply newcomer it is interesting getting other perspectives on a novel and from across the world too. I had an aunt who quizzed me on P&P so I know Darcy's age and his first name, which is....? As for being too old for me um.. nope. I've only read emma once because it was tedious, she wasn't nasty just naive. She wanted a purpose so set about matchmaking , being the daughter of wealth and nothing to do. See the movie Clueless for a modern take on this.