Railing at Greatness: Why Critics, Educators, and Readers are so Touchy These Days

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Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandi

I'm not arguing with you over this, Alex. I know my country, and I know it better than you. I'm not having a huge circular argument that will lead nowhere.

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Fair enough, no point yelling at a wall on both our ends.

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Originally Posted by KCurtis

JBI, you sure are fond of generalizing, aren't you? Now you are an expert on the United States. You never witnessed the America of the 1960's and before. How could you ever know the damage caused by slavery and racism-for both white and black populations. I doubt you have ever had a conversation with black populations in our country. (Note I have not used the term African American, that is a term imposed mostly by the PC media).
So when you say Americans prefer to silence things rather than face them, think again. We know of and are proud of the improvements and achievements made in the U.S.
Stick to being a China expert instead, or maybe not, since you are also unaware of communism.

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Of course I am generalizing, but this is hardly a major argument that has not surfaced in American discourse either. Just read Philip Roth's novel the Human Stain which discusses the same issues. He is American, and was there in the 60s.

It is ridiculous how a country that infiltrates our media, puts students and professors in our universities (Canada's), and then produces intelligent people who nonetheless come onto message boards and spout such idiocy.

When you make any statement about culture, you are necessarily generalizing. That however does not change the trend. I am privy to American news, American television, American cinema and American literary forms, as well as American music, and American people - hate to break it to you, I live near a border in an international city with plenty of Americans, and definitely its fair share of American exposure.

But what you tell me is this: you can come here and bash us, you can do trade with us, and link our economies completely, to the point where it is clear we are each other's most significant trade partners, you can push all your media on us, but when one little well read punk on the internet decides to express his informed opinion, you need to have a cry like a spoiled child. Now you tell me, big boy, who is trying to repress what? Who is trying to silence instead of address? Are you not just illustrating my point you?

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Originally Posted by KCurtis

:lol: Good one! Cultural Relativism at it's worst!!! No I don't, nor will EVER respect Islamic cultures who practice evil towards women.

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Are you Muslim? Then how can you comment. Or better, I will assume you are female then?

Seriously, you are so thick. Besides, hate to break it to you, all cultures practice violence toward women. I am yet to see one that doesn't. Keep your bigotry unvoiced. Start by trying to fix your lot up, then worry about others'.

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Originally Posted by JBI

Are you Muslim? Then how can you comment. Or better, I will assume you are female then?

Seriously, you are so thick. Besides, hate to break it to you, all cultures practice violence toward women. I am yet to see one that doesn't. Keep your bigotry unvoiced. Start by trying to fix your lot up, then worry about others'.

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Ohh come on, I ridicouled the bigoted view first, I put up my flag first, you can't just come and put your flag up as well, I did it first, that entitles me to exlusivity for at least the thread.

There are unspoken rules man, dont make me speak them ! :sad:

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Originally Posted by Alexander III

What about christian cultures who practise vatican sponsored evil against women?

And yes it is hard to take anything JBI say about America seriously. But then again Mutatis, it is hard to take anything you say about america too seriously as well considering you have never lived anywhere besides Illinois.

I mean as an Italian living in england, the majority of english people think that because they are european, they know how Italy is. The only ones who aknowlege that they know very little about Italy are the ones who have lived in various countries.

So truley how much can a person who has lived in only Illinois know about California or Texas.

Everyone critizises JBI for his (clearly visible) bias, but you and possibly mortal(I don't know where he has lived and the extent of his travells) are just as limited in view when talking about America as JBI.

Just saying...

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No, Mortal may not agree with me, but he at least understands my opinion somewhat, and sees it as legitimate, as he has mentioned in the past. He knows he holds an opinion on French poetry, and he knows I will not disregard it because he is not French. Nor will I disregard his opinion on Roman poets because he's not Roman, as he is just as qualified to make the decision through his reading and analyzing of materials.

As for my bias, not particularly strong relatively speaking. I actually am a major fan of much American artwork, which is where I base my opinions from - I read the novels, poetry, plays, etc. and generate my responses - and I mix in critical and theoretical work by Americans to flesh it out too. The same way anybody studying anything, or reading about anything does so.

It is just ridiculous how people can comment that other people are not allowed to discuss their culture, meanwhile working to discuss others. It is especially ridiculous when you hear it knowing that Americans put their programming on all of your TVs, and their movies in all of your cinemas, and their books on all of your shelves - and yet by the rude responses, expect you not to make judgments which were not even evaluative keep in mind, about their work which they have, some would argue, forced on you anyway.

The ridiculous thing is, if anybody had taken the time to read my posts, which I made a while ago, they are not even about the United States particularly. My comment was, this observation, that the original poster had written into a paper, and quoted was not as prevalent outside of the United States, and I gave my reason why. Who better to know where something is not as prevalent than someone who isn't there? She spotted the phenomenon, I just commented on how it isn't universal.

As for whether I am right or wrong, well, that is to be decided by the comments themselves. So far the best I hear is, "You have been anti-American in your past, therefore you are automatically wrong." Well, read the damn posts, if anything I have been supportive of American texts, and have been discussing international concerns - I put a followup comment on one post, which seems to not even be particularly heinous, and then I get derided for something which misses the entire point, meanwhile reaffirming it.

This whole argument has merely just reaffirmed my comments as holding true. I am commenting on such things as reading Huck Finn only for its racist undertones, when I comment that it should be read as the story that it is. Then some punks come along, and read my comments only for that I am Canadian, and try to silence me accordingly. Now you tell me, is that not the same weird twisted logic of suppressing things that don't sound good regardless of their content?

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Originally Posted by Alexander III

Ohh come on, I ridicouled the bigoted view first, I put up my flag first, you can't just come and put your flag up as well, I did it first, that entitles me to exlusivity for at least the thread.

There are unspoken rules man, dont make me speak them ! :sad:

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Don't worry, you can have his next tirade.

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Originally Posted by KCurtis

Um- There is no comparison. And let's not be so PC. Many Islamic practices consider stoning women, forcing them to wear ridiculous coverings over their entire bodies, and killing them for minor offenses or imagined offenses. HOW DOES THIS compare to christian cultures? Oh, cultural relativism! Let's all practice that! Nope, not for me.

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I am not even going to answer this, as I am baffled as to were to begin.

So I shall be faetitious. As to look at your response in anything but a comic manner would cause many a man to despair.

http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...ined/obj7.html


http://images.cheezburger.com/comple...539ad74c53.jpg

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Originally Posted by KCurtis

Um- There is no comparison. And let's not be so PC. Many Islamic practices consider stoning women, forcing them to wear ridiculous coverings over their entire bodies, and killing them for minor offenses or imagined offenses. HOW DOES THIS compare to christian cultures? Oh, cultural relativism! Let's all practice that! Nope, not for me.

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Yes, in "Christian Cultures" women do not get physically assaulted, beaten, or murdered, right? This is an "Islamic" thing. Now, this "Islamic" thing can perhaps be compared, right? So, somewhere like the Democratic Republic of Congo, a predominantly Christian nation, as you have stated (96% of the population according to Wikipedia with the most common denomination being Catholic) would be exempt. That isn't what the UN resolutions are saying anyway. Or do they not count?

Seriously, look at the trash in your backyard first.

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Originally Posted by JBI

Yes, in "Christian Cultures" women do not get physically assaulted, beaten, or murdered, right? This is an "Islamic" thing. Now, this "Islamic" thing can perhaps be compared, right? So, somewhere like the Democratic Republic of Congo, a predominantly Christian nation, as you have stated (96% of the population according to Wikipedia with the most common denomination being Catholic) would be exempt. That isn't what the UN resolutions are saying anyway. Or do they not count?

Seriously, look at the trash in your backyard first.

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No no that is all wrong, Congo is full of black people, they are not real christians, they are the sons of Cain afterall and some of our very wise popes of yesteryear told us to keep them as slaves as the son's of Cain can never be true christians.

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Originally Posted by JBI

Yes, in "Christian Cultures" women do not get physically assaulted, beaten, or murdered, right? This is an "Islamic" thing. Now, this "Islamic" thing can perhaps be compared, right? So, somewhere like the Democratic Republic of Congo, a predominantly Christian nation, as you have stated (96% of the population according to Wikipedia with the most common denomination being Catholic) would be exempt. That isn't what the UN resolutions are saying anyway. Or do they not count?

Seriously, look at the trash in your backyard first.

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What are you talking about?? I never stated anything about the Democratic Republic of Congo. My backyard?? What are you talking about? I'm not a Christian!!! Never said I was.

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Originally Posted by JBI

Are you Muslim? Then how can you comment. Or better, I will assume you are female then?

Seriously, you are so thick. Besides, hate to break it to you, all cultures practice violence toward women. I am yet to see one that doesn't. Keep your bigotry unvoiced. Start by trying to fix your lot up, then worry about others'.

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You are, in my opinion, not very smart. This statement is so dumb. I am an an athiest. Ofcourse I can comment. I have free will to comment. I will not keep my so called "bigotry" against Islamic extremism unvoiced. I also will not keep any criticism of Christianity unvoiced, but the subject I responded to was on Islamic extremism, you can go back and read what I commented on, or then, don't-it's up to you. I don't believe you are breaking anything to me, all cultures do and have practiced violence. However, that was not what I was responding to. I assumed it was general knowledge that all cultures do this. I was commenting on one. And, I will not stop, because I really don't care what anyone thinks. That is the beauty of getting older, if there is any beauty in it at all.

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Originally Posted by Alexander III

I am not even going to answer this, as I am baffled as to were to begin.

So I shall be faetitious. As to look at your response in anything but a comic manner would cause many a man to despair.

http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...ined/obj7.html


http://images.cheezburger.com/comple...539ad74c53.jpg

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Okay, don't answer it then. I'm glad you find me funny, thank you. Try spelling correctly. As for the stupid pic of Puff Daddy, I really can't stand him. Oh, does that make me a racist?

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Originally Posted by Alexander III

It is not about size, it is about diversity. The level of diversity in America cannot be compared to the level of diversity found in a single country, it is far more akin to the diversity found on a continent.

What the heck do you know about a mexican imigrants experiance in califronia, yet they make up a considerable amount of population. How about a southern balck and white man, or a urban think new york, black or white man. What is American culture? Before it could be said to be WASP culture becuase they were the dominant majority, but know it clearly is not.

In Italy there is a higly unified culture, in America this is not the case, there are far more realities and differneces. In Italy 90% of the population is white and catolic. The level of diversity in America is far more accentuated.

The fact that you found my post ridicoulous if anything proves my point. Ofcourse you would find it ridicoulous. Afterall I was critisizing you for thinking that America was much more culturaly homozygose that it is. So me pointing out it vasr heterodiversity is at huge odds with your view.

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I can't really understand your spelling very well, too many mistakes.

Whenever I see an american bashing Canada, I think they're just angry that they're not Canadian.

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Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandi

I'm not arguing with you over this, Alex. I know my country, and I know it better than you. I'm not having a huge circular argument that will lead nowhere.

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I'm with you. Nor will I, not anymore. I think......

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Originally Posted by Mr.lucifer

Whenever I see an american bashing Canada, I think they're just angry that they're not Canadian.

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I'm Canadian too. I lived there until I was three-beautiful place.

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Originally Posted by JBI

But what you tell me is this: you can come here and bash us, you can do trade with us, and link our economies completely, to the point where it is clear we are each other's most significant trade partners, you can push all your media on us, but when one little well read punk on the internet decides to express his informed opinion, you need to have a cry like a spoiled child. Now you tell me, big boy, who is trying to repress what? Who is trying to silence instead of address? Are you not just illustrating my point you?

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There you go, generalizing again and making yourself look small. I'm not telling you any of the above. And, I am not a "big boy", I'm a 54 year old Canadian-American. And you don't speak for Canadians.

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Originally Posted by KCurtis

You are, in my opinion, not very smart. This statement is so dumb. I am an an athiest. Ofcourse I can comment. I have free will to comment. I will not keep my so called "bigotry" against Islamic extremism unvoiced. I also will not keep any criticism of Christianity unvoiced, but the subject I responded to was on Islamic extremism, you can go back and read what I commented on, or then, don't-it's up to you. I don't believe you are breaking anything to me, all cultures do and have practiced violence. However, that was not what I was responding to. I assumed it was general knowledge that all cultures do this. I was commenting on one. And, I will not stop, because I really don't care what anyone thinks. That is the beauty of getting older, if there is any beauty in it at all.

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Then on what grounds dare you comment on my position you hypocrite.

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Originally Posted by KCurtis

There you go, generalizing again and making yourself look small. I'm not telling you any of the above. And, I am not a "big boy", I'm a 54 year old Canadian-American. And you don't speak for Canadians.

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Did I claim to? I speak for myself, who is Canadian.

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Originally Posted by JBI

Then on what grounds dare you comment on my position you hypocrite.

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Why shouldn't I comment on your anti-American slant? As for being called a hypocrite-what you call me doesn't bother me, I know I am not what you think I am, so it doesn't matter.
See you in Toronto,
a beautiful place.

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Originally Posted by KCurtis

Why shouldn't I comment on your anti-American slant? As for being called a hypocrite-what you call me doesn't bother me, I know I am not what you think I am, so it doesn't matter.
See you in Toronto,
a beautiful place.

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Are you anti-islamic then? or Anti-Christian? Or just a bigot? Are you not making generalizing sweeping statements? As I said before, do not comment if you are not willing to comment on yourself. I do not hide my dislike of certain aspects of American culture, identity, policy and politics. Everyone knows this. That does not make my comments necessarily Anti-American (of which those in particular were not), nor does it disqualify my opinions from being relevant.

Have fun rocket man, I will not respond to you again.

Railing at greatness became Railing at JBI :D

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Originally Posted by JCamilo

Railing at greatness became Railing at JBI :D

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It's difficult to discern whether it is mere trollishness, or whether they are actually serious in their endeavor. But it seems too commonplace here to just attack me as Anti-American without reading anything that I write. It is far more ridiculous when the comments that I make are not particularly anti-American, nor particularly polemic, or controversial.

As for my own greatness, well, I am able to reduced 54 year old grown men to pathetic name calling and idiocy, so I guess I have some charm.