No- you're right. 105mm. A typo.
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No- you're right. 105mm. A typo.
Here is another article, very even handed, written by a man who owns and sometimes carries, guns:
http://harpers.org/archive/2010/08/h...is-a-worn-gun/
It's called "Happiness is a Worn Gun: My concealed weapon and me." It won't solve the problem or resolve any arguments, but it really is a good look at the mindset of people who believe in guns (p.s. they are not all as crazy as Alex Jones!).
The amusing thing is the way the he describes how the anti-gun lobby is viewed by gun carriers and their.... "resentment toward the airy-fairy elites who can enjoy the luxury of musing, sipping tea, and nibbling biscuits while the good people of the world have to work for a living and keep their guard up."Quote:
Originally Posted by qimissung
There's more than a grain of truth in the description but for real airy-fairyness, England beats the US hands down.
^Gotta admit, you guys are some biscuit nibblers over there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by prendrelemick
I've been thinking about these comments. And what I've decided is, America is not Switzerland - and never will be. (Thank god) We're much bigger with a lot more diverse population. It's not that we lack discipline. (although we probably do) It's that we've got an innate suspicion of the rules. We don't look at laws and societal norms as something to reveled in or admired, but rather we look at them as something to try to get around. (I do anyway) And in this respect, I think we resemble Ireland more than England. I also think that, as a nation, we are relatively open to change. It's not usually pretty, but we do change, and this may be one of those times.Quote:
Originally Posted by prendrelemick
Anyway, have you ever stood on a street corner in Switzerland or Germany waiting to cross? Even if there's not a car for miles around, pedestrians will obediently wait for the light to change before stepping off the sidewalk. Now compare that to Manhattan. I'm getting a mental picture of Dustin Hoffman in Midnight Cowboy banging his hand on a Yellow Cab: "Hey-ay-AY! I'm walkin' here! I'm walkin' 'ere!"
I found the clip:
http://youtu.be/c412hqucHKw
Incidentally, a few years ago I was crossing a street in Stuttgart. It was probably eleven at night and not a car in sight. The light was red, but I went for it anyway. I know, I know, gutsy move. An old lady standing on the curb next to me, patiently waiting for the light to change, said to me, "Tsk, tsk, vhat vill the children think?" I'm not sure how she knew I was an English speaker.
I thought Happiness is a Worn Gun was an excellent article. He gave a wonderful social context to the gun in America and I can really appreciate how a shift in attitude will be so difficult to achieve, especially when people with concealed weapons are tacitly considered to be 'guardians' endowed with the grave responsibility of protecting citizens who choose to live in 'condition white' mode. I believe this man because his honesty speaks out when he alludes to the hollywoodness of it all, how carrying a weapon alters his own outlook on life, revealing how crime data cannot definitively be ascribed to gun ownership and most of all, his growing concern about the informalities involved in obtaining a license to carry a weapon. Despite being pro-gun, he offers up points for everyone to mull over. Now he beats Alex Jones hands down....
i agree with you Delta, an honest reasonable article. He is absolutely right about the allure of guns, I love the combination of tactile beauty and precision engineered functionality of mine. Every 5 years a policeman comes and asks me why I need them. What I don't tell him is that I think they are aesthetically beautiful, a coming together of oiled metal and polished walnut, I just like owning them.
Sancho: Crossing roads is difficult, you have to know which social group you belong to. The young rebel (ignorers of lights). The "setting proper example to minors" group. The "too busy to wait" group. Or like me, "the lights are just another example of this benighted so called progress thing and I want no part of it" group of old gits.
Dan Baum has expressed concerns and a certain amount of insecurity as a citizen of his country. It's a common ground for people and invites discussion where everyone, progun or not can voice their concerns without attacking one another.
Now this is what I call a very interesting video, I love the guy who says one of the weapons is ideal for targeting zombie craniums with small brains.
http://youtu.be/VM393EyIx-o
I forgot about the zombies. Here's another educational video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=fw1A2vCsL0U
Aesthetics absolutely, that along with the historical and sentimental value I attach to mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by prendrelemick
There's something special in holding and firing a piece of history. In fact it's looking like we will be doing just that this weekend, since we postponed the Gurgle new year's celebration. There will be plenty of fireworks, bonfires, burning of the Mozartgeist and yes...shooting. This time I'll blow the dust off the old M1 Carbine. My brother will likely bring his 1894 Swedish Mauser.
The beer cans, pumpkins and feral zombies that happen to emerge from the woods, don't have a chance
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emil Miller
Quote:
Originally Posted by YesNo
Great videos!
I'm reminded of the scene with the reporter from Night of the Living Dead.
The best part is from 1:30 to about 2:45...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wxue16WMP2s
[QUOTE=Gilliatt Gurgle;1199357]Aesthetics absolutely, that along with the historical and sentimental value I attach to mine.
Beats playing whist.Quote:
There's something special in holding and firing a piece of history. In fact it's looking like we will be doing just that this weekend, since we postponed the Gurgle new year's celebration. There will be plenty of fireworks, bonfires, burning of the Mozartgeist and yes...shooting. This time I'll blow the dust off the old M1 Carbine. My brother will likely bring his 1894 Swedish Mauser.
The beer cans, pumpkins and feral zombies that happen to emerge from the woods, don't have a chance
It's OK if you live in the wide open spaces but there's not much room in England to contemplate long range rifles, especially in London. I haven't yet seen a zombie, that's if we discount those who spend most of their spare time in front of the TV, but looking at some of the sights shambling along London's streets, I get the impression that it's only a matter of time.Quote:
Great videos!
I'm reminded of the scene with the reporter from Night of the Living Dead.
The best part is from 1:30 to about 2:45...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wxue16WMP2s
In which case I would seriously consider the Zombie Slayer for close quarter use.
All's well that ends well.
http://youtu.be/GGOmtyTJ2f0
But not in Albuquerque.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21110435
I understand the clerk was shot as well as one of the robbers. The robber was killed. It was all recorded and the police quickly found the other robber. It makes me think that if the clerk did not have a gun, the robbers would have been caught based on the recorded evidence and no one would have been shot. This didn't really end well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emil Miller
Why did I read that as burlesque?:smilewinkgrin:Quote:
Originally Posted by prendrelemick
Well you win some and you loose some but you can be sure that the Californian robbers will not be carrying out any more armed robberies.Quote:
There's no guarantee that they would have been caught by the recorded evidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by YesNo
Do you think it's a realistic expectation that citizens with small arms would have any impact against systems like predator drones? The notion seems a tad more wishful than reasonable. I don't think the citizenry has been able to compete with the military in well over a century.Quote:
Originally Posted by E.A Rumfield
That's true. If they only got a few hundred dollars worth of cash the police might not have been motivated to go after them as quickly as if someone were shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emil Miller
I'm pretty sure citizens would lose against the government quickly.Quote:
Originally Posted by deryk
However, why should we assume that if the government goes nuts those who own guns would be against the government? They may just as easily agree with the nutty government.
yesterday a man at a gun show slipped and shot himself.
NRA- Guns don't kill people, Icy sidewalks kill people!
Am I allowed to laugh aloud?Quote:
Originally Posted by prendrelemick
Icy sidewalks are the silent killer no one wants to talk about.
lol. Also, Romania and Ceausescu. I believe the citizenry there simply gathered in the square before his official residence and took their country back, without any guns whatsoever. Obviously there was a bit more to the story than that, but that is what essentially happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by deryk
Check out the Albert Einstein Institution which promotes nonviolent resistence:
http://www.aeinstein.org/
And the book "From Dictatorship to Democracy" by Gene Sharp which is available for download in 27 languages on that website.
I also remember Boris Yeltzin and unarmed citizens facing down tanks when The Russian Generals tried to seize power in Moscow.
I reckon soldiers don't like shooting their unarmed mates. Whereas armed militia are a different matter.
Well said, Mick.
Boris had brass, and so did the guy in Tianamen Square facing a line of tanks with - a shopping bag. Those guys had chutzpah. They engaged in the kind of civil disobedience that would make Henry David Thoreau proud; a gumbah with an AR-15 (probably bought with money borrowed from his kid's college fund), not so much.
By the by, Stephen King has "published" via Kindle Singles his thoughts on gun ownership. I haven't read it, but I saw some excerpts and comments the other day. He owns several hand guns but generally welcomes gun control and is fairly scathing on those who are against. "Guns" available for 99p at Amazon.
I'd like to weigh in as a man born and raised in the north woods of America.
Up here hunting is a large part of our culture, and every household I can think of contains at least one rifle. My wife and I have several. We "role our own" bullets and I have my come ups taped to the side of my. 308. In other words, I take my responsibility of ethical hunting seriously, and spend time improving my skills as a rifleman.
That said, for me, rifle hunting is more "harvesting" than it is hunting.
Anyone who truly loves hunting and the challenge it brings will be out there with a bow and arrows, not a rifle.
As far as rifles for self defense or fighting crazy governments, it isn't really my thing.
I don't believe it is my right to decide if another man lives or dies, and flight/evasion is usually a better tactical decision anyway. Many people I know, in north central USA, feel the same as me.
So, I like my guns, but I don't love them. I think Europe has some good ideas. I'd trade my guns for topless beaches any day. Heeee!
Bigwire. I think you are the demographic that the NRA are trying to scare, they are after your hearts and minds, they are trying to connect ALL gun owners with those who want to keep oozies under the bed. In fact if the proposals are passed as they are you will not be affected - and quite right too.
Its easy to feel bullied from both sides of this issue. I've heard from one side, even in this very thread, that if I fight to keep an assault rifle I'm sacrificing little school kids....wth??... while the nra and the like say if I don't I'm sacrificing my freedom......again.....wth??Quote:
Originally Posted by prendrelemick
For me, I just try to stick by my values and out of the politics, ignoring the scare tactics and passive aggressive threats from both sides.
Waking up this thread because of the Ex LA cop, who lost his job and because he feels a sense of injustice, is shooting his former collegues. It is a situation that sums up the whole deadly combination of factors, that from here seems peculiar to America. Firstly, there is a confidence in violence that runs through society from the Government down-a belief that violence is the answer. You can put things right with violence. So the ex cop has a grievance and resorts to violence.
Then the is the cult of the individual over and above society. The cop feels he has a right to declare war on the LA police. It's his call as a free and independent citizen. and if people get killed, it's unfortunate but there are always casualties in war.
And finally, there is all that freely available weaponry, enableing him to persue his war easily and effectively.
I agree with everything said here. Also saw that the police shot two women because they thought they were the shooter... seems like a difficult mistake to make, considering the shooter is a large man...Quote:
Originally Posted by prendrelemick
And your point is?
It's not going to change, predrelmick. There was a story on the news last night that a local gun manufacturer cannot keep up with the current demand for guns. My son said that would go on for at least two years.
Here's something else:
The article is titled "How many people have been killed by guns since Newtown?"
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a..._shooting.html
I think that Muslim women should have the right to bare arms, even in Iran.
Hindu women too, particularly in Dehli.
I found this clip from Full Metal Jacket. It may have applicability with respect to our present shooter out in California.Quote:
Originally Posted by prendrelemick
http://youtu.be/a5IWK9sRYTs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecurb
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sancho
It does seem extremely desirable to arm the weak. That's how it starts, I bet our rogue ex policeman sees himself as a victim.
A far better idea is to have a strong rule of law based on equality and justice.
Hey, I'm a woman. I guess I need a gun.
Makes me think of a scene in some movie where they all end up with their guns pointed at each others head. Hehe.
I support women's rights to bare arms, and bare faces, too (in case anyone didn't get my earlier homophone). Here in Oregon, the right to bare not only arms, but the entire body is considered a First Amendment right, not a Second.
Doh, I completely missed that !
Haha!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecurb
Good won.