The right to bear arms

[Emil Miller]

But not in Albuquerque.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21110435

Well you win some and you loose some but you can be sure that the Californian robbers will not be carrying out any more armed robberies.

I understand the clerk was shot as well as one of the robbers. The robber was killed. It was all recorded and the police quickly found the other robber. It makes me think that if the clerk did not have a gun, the robbers would have been caught based on the recorded evidence and no one would have been shot. This didn't really end well.

There's no guarantee that they would have been caught by the recorded evidence.

[deryk]

For protection against an unfair government. Plain and simple. An intelligent and well armed populace is not an easy one to control.

Do you think it's a realistic expectation that citizens with small arms would have any impact against systems like predator drones? The notion seems a tad more wishful than reasonable. I don't think the citizenry has been able to compete with the military in well over a century.

[YesNo]

There's no guarantee that they would have been caught by the recorded evidence.

That's true. If they only got a few hundred dollars worth of cash the police might not have been motivated to go after them as quickly as if someone were shot.

[YesNo]

Do you think it's a realistic expectation that citizens with small arms would have any impact against systems like predator drones? The notion seems a tad more wishful than reasonable. I don't think the citizenry has been able to compete with the military in well over a century.

I'm pretty sure citizens would lose against the government quickly.

However, why should we assume that if the government goes nuts those who own guns would be against the government? They may just as easily agree with the nutty government.

[prendrelemick]

yesterday a man at a gun show slipped and shot himself.

NRA- Guns don't kill people, Icy sidewalks kill people!

[Delta40]

yesterday a man at a gun show slipped and shot himself.

NRA- Guns don't kill people, Icy sidewalks kill people!

Am I allowed to laugh aloud?

[Basil]

Icy sidewalks are the silent killer no one wants to talk about.

[qimissung]

Do you think it's a realistic expectation that citizens with small arms would have any impact against systems like predator drones? The notion seems a tad more wishful than reasonable. I don't think the citizenry has been able to compete with the military in well over a century.

lol. Also, Romania and Ceausescu. I believe the citizenry there simply gathered in the square before his official residence and took their country back, without any guns whatsoever. Obviously there was a bit more to the story than that, but that is what essentially happened.

Check out the Albert Einstein Institution which promotes nonviolent resistence:

http://www.aeinstein.org/

And the book "From Dictatorship to Democracy" by Gene Sharp which is available for download in 27 languages on that website.

[prendrelemick]

I also remember Boris Yeltzin and unarmed citizens facing down tanks when The Russian Generals tried to seize power in Moscow.

I reckon soldiers don't like shooting their unarmed mates. Whereas armed militia are a different matter.

[Sancho]

Well said, Mick.

Boris had brass, and so did the guy in Tianamen Square facing a line of tanks with - a shopping bag. Those guys had chutzpah. They engaged in the kind of civil disobedience that would make Henry David Thoreau proud; a gumbah with an AR-15 (probably bought with money borrowed from his kid's college fund), not so much.

[prendrelemick]

By the by, Stephen King has "published" via Kindle Singles his thoughts on gun ownership. I haven't read it, but I saw some excerpts and comments the other day. He owns several hand guns but generally welcomes gun control and is fairly scathing on those who are against. "Guns" available for 99p at Amazon.

[bIGwIRE]

I'd like to weigh in as a man born and raised in the north woods of America.
Up here hunting is a large part of our culture, and every household I can think of contains at least one rifle. My wife and I have several. We "role our own" bullets and I have my come ups taped to the side of my. 308. In other words, I take my responsibility of ethical hunting seriously, and spend time improving my skills as a rifleman.
That said, for me, rifle hunting is more "harvesting" than it is hunting.
Anyone who truly loves hunting and the challenge it brings will be out there with a bow and arrows, not a rifle.

As far as rifles for self defense or fighting crazy governments, it isn't really my thing.
I don't believe it is my right to decide if another man lives or dies, and flight/evasion is usually a better tactical decision anyway. Many people I know, in north central USA, feel the same as me.

So, I like my guns, but I don't love them. I think Europe has some good ideas. I'd trade my guns for topless beaches any day. Heeee!

[prendrelemick]

Bigwire. I think you are the demographic that the NRA are trying to scare, they are after your hearts and minds, they are trying to connect ALL gun owners with those who want to keep oozies under the bed. In fact if the proposals are passed as they are you will not be affected - and quite right too.

[bIGwIRE]

Bigwire. I think you are the demographic that the NRA are trying to scare, they are after your hearts and minds, they are trying to connect ALL gun owners with those who want to keep oozies under the bed. In fact if the proposals are passed as they are you will not be affected - and quite right too.

Its easy to feel bullied from both sides of this issue. I've heard from one side, even in this very thread, that if I fight to keep an assault rifle I'm sacrificing little school kids....wth??... while the nra and the like say if I don't I'm sacrificing my freedom......again.....wth??
For me, I just try to stick by my values and out of the politics, ignoring the scare tactics and passive aggressive threats from both sides.

[prendrelemick]

Waking up this thread because of the Ex LA cop, who lost his job and because he feels a sense of injustice, is shooting his former collegues. It is a situation that sums up the whole deadly combination of factors, that from here seems peculiar to America. Firstly, there is a confidence in violence that runs through society from the Government down-a belief that violence is the answer. You can put things right with violence. So the ex cop has a grievance and resorts to violence.

Then the is the cult of the individual over and above society. The cop feels he has a right to declare war on the LA police. It's his call as a free and independent citizen. and if people get killed, it's unfortunate but there are always casualties in war.

And finally, there is all that freely available weaponry, enableing him to persue his war easily and effectively.