Is Nudity Art?

[cacian]

I was just watching a programm and it suddenly showed a nude person standing in the middlle of a courtyard,in the cold, whilst painters/sketchers peered at the nudity with an eagle eye to catch something to draw.

It took me by surprise I was not expecting to see such a scene,but it did make cring as I felt cold and almost squeemish for the nude person standing there.
I guess I would never understand people who have the stamina to stand totally nude in front of strangers.
I for one know there is no way I would.

so my question is
is a strangers' naked body art to be had?

discuss.

[LunarPlexus]

I don't like to say what is and isn't art, but the naked human body has always inspired artists. I like to paint, and try really hard to be original, but I still really love to sit down and sketch a beautiful naked lady.

[MystyrMystyry]

Some nude people get paid lots of money which they don't need to spend on clothes so that's even more money. Most nude people are not so fortunate but people will offer to pay them (though not as much) to put on their clothes.

There's a nude resort not far from here where the rent is very low (thirty dollars a week) provided you don't wear clothes. If you'd rather wear clothes then you're not allowed to live there.

I was on a bus once and the driver started talking about how he hates the job because he has to wear a uniform instead of being nude. I don't like buses in the first place, but if the driver was nude well gasp what would you do?

I agree that nude bus drivers are not really 'works of art' in themselves, though someone might think so, and even prefer it. Imagine being able to say that your bus driver was a 'work of art' instead of just a bio-mechanical robot.

There are nude people who think that they are 'works of art' just by virtue of that fact they are nude. These are lucky people who don't listen to public criticism and tend to do what ever they feel like (it doesn't mean they're 'works of art' though).

[stlukesguild]

When Duchamp placed the urinal in the art gallery, his intention was to provoke a dialog upon the age old question" "What is Art?" Sadly enough, a vast majority missed the irony and assumed that Duchamp was championing the notion that "Everything is Art." As a result, several generations have been given permission to buy into this notion that "Everything is Art" without ever really questioning just what it is that entails.

I don't buy into the notion that "Everything is Art" nor even the concept that a goal of Art should be to close the gap between "Life" and "Art". Art, to me, is something removed from life ("artificial"?)... something separate from life... something for which we have assigned a term (Art) defining it as something different or special from the the whole of life... the whole of "everything".

The human body is a work of nature. It may indeed be infinitely beautiful and suggest the most profound thoughts (as some works of art)... but the same may be true of a snowflake or the Grand Canyon. The human body is a work of nature... but it may be employed as the source of inspiration for works of art (as in the case of an artist creating a painting of a nude model), or the medium (in the case of a dancer or actor) or even the "canvas":



The notion of that the nude body itself could be a source of inspiration for art has long been a source of anxiety for artists, critics, and moralists. Beyond those who would obviously object to nudity in art on moral terms: orthodox clergy, Puritans, etc... the nude as a subject in art even came under fire by various Modernist theorists. Emmanuel Kant objected to the seductive nature of the subject matter which made it difficult to judge a work of art objectively , in other words, the naked female body overwhelmed the male art lover/art critic's ability to discern whether it was the "art" or the subject matter that he found attractive. The architect Adolf Loos and the anarchist artist, Filippo Tommaso Marinetti argued that the nude was so clearly laden with emotional "baggage" that it should be done away with for the sake of reason.

I was just watching a programm and it suddenly showed a nude person standing in the middlle of a courtyard,in the cold, whilst painters/sketchers peered at the nudity with an eagle eye to catch something to draw. It took me by surprise I was not expecting to see such a scene,but it did make cring as I felt cold and almost squeemish for the nude person standing there.
I guess I would never understand people who have the stamina to stand totally nude in front of strangers.

I for one know there is no way I would.

I remember my first experience with drawing the nude in art school. The professor talked for a good deal about the tradition of drawing the nude stressing that it should in no way be looked upon as a sexual experience... that artists, like doctors, were professionals who could look at the nude without the least erotic thought coming to mind as they focused upon the gesture, the relationship of forms, the play of light, the anatomy and the physiology. Plato, great moralist that he was, argued along the same lines, suggesting that there were two Aphrodites, whom he calls the celestial and the vulgar: Venus Coelestis and Venus Naturalis. The "nude" in art, he argued, should avoid the expression of the obsessive, unreasonable nature of physical desire: the vulgar... and instead aspire to the celestial... the ideal... a celebration of beauty... a beauty that transcends sexuality.

It became rapidly clear what a crock this was as the female students were just as visibly affected my the male models, as the guys were by the female models.

Sir Kenneth Clark, the great art historian, reinforced my own thoughts when he argued that the human nude is an image of such power for the simple reason that it is "Us" and reminds us of all that we enjoy doing with ourselves... and first and foremost is our sexual urge or erotic drive. Clark went so far as to argue that the sexual drive... the desire to grasp and be physically united with another human being... is so central to our human experience that any representation of the nude that failed to raise some vestige of the erotic sensibility was ultimately bad art and false morals.

[JCamilo]

What still amaze me is how people still mix the object that inspired art (a naked woman, a dressed woman, a bird, a fruit) with the object (a song, a poem, a painting, a watever a woman may be doing naked) that is produces and ask if it is art. As if there is transformation, no medium, no changes between them... oh well.

[Revolte]

Yes it is. Not only because its creation itself (by whatever means that may be, I dont know and I don't care) is so superb, like any physical and living thing, that it can't seriously be disregarded as anything less then magic and art is magic. But also because of the knowledge defying war against the body, where it is illegal to be WHAT YOU ARE, it is only legal to NOT HIDE your true form when others can not see you unless willingly placed in the same location with INTENT to see you naked (which is absolutely dumbfounding considering it is NOT illegal to wear dead animals on your body when there is no realistic need for doing so other then looking like an idiot and serves just as much if not MORE triggering then a naked body alone). Breaking said laws in order to flaunt your truth is an EXTREME form of art, I may not go out of my way to see just anybody naked but I am sure as hell mature enough and smart enough to appreciate a true human body and the beauty that it holds. Patti Smith is someone I never found attractive, but when she is naked, she is beautiful.

And here we see said example above, plus the meeting of photography and nudity showing two arts to create an almost entirely different art where the focus is neither the photograph or the body but almost the forms itself and how they somehow manage to create a feel you would not get from looking directly at a nude person nor directly at any of todays forms of professional photography:

http://www.mapplethorpe.org/portfolios/

[cacian]

Some nude people get paid lots of money which they don't need to spend on clothes so that's even more money. Most nude people are not so fortunate but people will offer to pay them (though not as much) to put on their clothes.

There's a nude resort not far from here where the rent is very low (thirty dollars a week) provided you don't wear clothes. If you'd rather wear clothes then you're not allowed to live there.

I was on a bus once and the driver started talking about how he hates the job because he has to wear a uniform instead of being nude. I don't like buses in the first place, but if the driver was nude well gasp what would you do?

I agree that nude bus drivers are not really 'works of art' in themselves, though someone might think so, and even prefer it. Imagine being able to say that your bus driver was a 'work of art' instead of just a bio-mechanical robot.

There are nude people who think that they are 'works of art' just by virtue of that fact they are nude. These are lucky people who don't listen to public criticism and tend to do what ever they feel like (it doesn't mean they're 'works of art' though).

MyMy Mystery I am indeed baffled.
About the resort what happens when it snows and rains?
And do these people have children?
I hope not because that would be a breach of children to face or live with people who nude all the time.
I cannot imagine having to live with a parent or a relative who is permanentely nude that would sure affect my psychological sanity.
How depressing just thinking about it.
I can understand nude beaches, but nude as in the norm of living depresses me.

[Bluehound]

I am not particularly cultured or religious, but when I have seen really good art it moved me in a way that felt religious. Good art , including beautifully captured nudes, is divine.
But if I saw a naked person in the street, my instinct would be to look away.
Real naked people are not art, they may be beautiful and attractive, but they are still physical (wobbly bits and all).
A photo or a painting makes them more than that, it makes them godlike.

[stlukesguild]

About the resort what happens when it snows and rains?
And do these people have children?
I hope not because that would be a breach of children to face or live with people who nude all the time.
I cannot imagine having to live with a parent or a relative who is permanentely nude that would sure affect my psychological sanity.
How depressing just thinking about it.
I can understand nude beaches, but nude as in the norm of living depresses me.

You are making assumptions based upon your own experiences and moral standards. How many cultures do not look upon the nude in the same manner in which we, in the West, with our Judeo-Christian based notions about nudity and sexuality do? Do you honestly believe that the African tribes for whom nudity is the norm are permanently psychologically damaged as a result of seeing nudity on a day to day basis?

[cacian]

About the resort what happens when it snows and rains?
And do these people have children?
I hope not because that would be a breach of children to face or live with people who nude all the time.
I cannot imagine having to live with a parent or a relative who is permanentely nude that would sure affect my psychological sanity.
How depressing just thinking about it.
I can understand nude beaches, but nude as in the norm of living depresses me.

You are making assumptions based upon your own experiences and moral standards. How many cultures do not look upon the nude in the same manner in which we, in the West, with our Judeo-Christian based notions about nudity and sexuality do? Do you honestly believe that the African tribes for whom nudity is the norm are permanently psychologically damaged as a result of seeing nudity on a day to day basis?

I am not ot judge anyone.
I am simply reacting in the way I would in this situation.
I have given reasons why being in the nude when the weather is not permitting to do so.
This is simply logic. I put clothes on because I do not want to freeze.
It is a fact of life wether I like it or not.
I also care about childrend and what they might see in two parents that stand in thenude in front of them.
The problem I have with that is this
whilst you as an adult have made the decision to be in the nude it is not the children's decision to ask for parents to be nude in front of them.
Just because a tribe in Africe decided to go nude when they could be dressed does not justify them as being right.
The children were not asked wether it was ok or not for adults to conduct themselves in this way, not caring for clothes when there are clothing to be had.
Sorry I have no sympathy for adults imposing their habits onchildren.
An adult is to behave as they wish but when there are chuldren about then the situation is different.
It is not my right to impose my nudity on children because children are not able to make their minds up yet on wether nudity is acceptable to them or not. The quicker the adult learns the better off the children are.
charity begins at home. There is no point in preaching childrens' right and protection when parents are not applying them themselves.
Like everything in life one is to consider others inclcuding children believe or not.
PLus let'sface it it is really not advisable to hang around in the nude because it is cultural.
I think much more urgent pressing more interesting and mind stretching then one living in the nude saying it is cultural.
Sorry this is making laugh my head off no offense.

[ftil]

Another tread about nudity.LOL! Nudity and prostitution are hot topics.


Anyway, I am curious if the forum rules have changed and we can post again an original size of the image not just a "thumbnail". .

[MarkBastable]

...that would sure affect my psychological sanity.

Well, I'd say give it go then. At this stage, anything's worth a try.

[Darcy88]

On the issue of nudism I am undecided. With over a third of North Americans obese I`d poke out my eyes were nudism to become a widespread trend. Being naked only before one with whom you are intimate bestows upon the state a special significance which I suspect would be lost were you to be thus exposed regardless of company or occasion.

But then you see film or photo of aborigines in their primitive uncivilized state and cannot help but be in awe at the natural beauty and simplicity, the sheer innocence of it, of those true children of Adam and Eve.

As far as nudity being art... of course! Botticelli`s Venus, Michelangelo`s David, Manet`s Luncheon on the Grass are only a few remarkable examples of the nude being beautifully depicted in art.

[Delta40]

I think you're taking it a little out of context Cacian. Households are not so much imposing nudity on children so much as it's no big deal to see each other without their clothes on. I grew up in a generation where I was thrashed for peeking at my mother whereas my girls and I enjoyed the freedom of open nudity and were given privacy when it was needed. I didn't want my girls to feel ashamed of their bodies and I had no problem with the questions they asked about mine. We didn't however live in a household where you had to take your clothes off when you got home. It just meant that we really didn't worry all that much about closing doors.

As for art, I think the male and female bodies are interesting and will always inspire artists.

[stlukesguild]

I am not ot judge anyone.
I am simply reacting in the way I would in this situation.
I have given reasons why being in the nude when the weather is not permitting to do so.
This is simply logic.

Obviously one of the reasons for the use of clothing relates to the weather. But it is far from being the sole reason that given cultures choose to dress in a certain way or to cover given parts of the body and not other parts.

I also care about childrend and what they might see in two parents that stand in thenude in front of them.
The problem I have with that is this
whilst you as an adult have made the decision to be in the nude it is not the children's decision to ask for parents to be nude in front of them.
Just because a tribe in Africe decided to go nude when they could be dressed does not justify them as being right.

So are you suggesting that their behavior is "wrong"? Based upon what? Your values and standards?

The children were not asked wether it was ok or not for adults to conduct themselves in this way, not caring for clothes when there are clothing to be had. Sorry I have no sympathy for adults imposing their habits onchildren.

Parents and adults... and the culture as a whole make endless decisions as to what is or is not OK concerning children. We choose some arbitrary age at which an individual is allowed to vote, to join the military, to drink alcohol, to get married, to have sex. Show me a culture in which the adults do not impose their "habits" upon children? Do you think a child reared in a culture in which nudity is the accepted norm is in any way going to share your anxiety concerning the fact that their parents and friends and everyone they know is going about nudes?

An adult is to behave as they wish but when there are chuldren about then the situation is different.

Why? You are again basing this upon your values and standards. You and I (and probably most of us here at LitNet) were raised in culture in which we don't speak of certain subjects or use certain language (profanity) or engage in certain actions around children. This is not a behavior dictated by nature, but rather by the culture in which we live. Animals go about freely without clothing and engage in sexual activities and mating openly before each other and before their offspring without psychological damage inflicted upon the offspring. Where do you find it dictated in nature as to why we establish a given arbitrary age for the start of school, voting, the consumption of alcohol, the legal age for sex, marriage, etc...

It is not my right to impose my nudity on children because children are not able to make their minds up yet on wether nudity is acceptable to them or not. The quicker the adult learns the better off the children are.
charity begins at home. There is no point in preaching childrens' right and protection when parents are not applying them themselves.

Again... why is it you presume that nudity is inherently harmful for children? Certainly you recognize that your very thoughts and values concerning nudity are the result of the culture in which you were raised. Had you been raised in a strict Islamic culture you might have found it unnatural for any woman past a certain age to be seen in public without being covered from head to foot.