Is Nudity Art?

[OrphanPip]

In the middle ages most families in the West lived in single room dwellings, so sex and nudity in front of children wasn't exactly abnormal in Western culture either. During the 19th century there developed a strange medicalizing obsession about child sexuality. Paradoxically, we've developed these systems of limiting the exposure of children to sex precisely with the intent of manipulating the sexual development of children, to make sure that they develop into psychosexually "normal" individuals.

[stlukesguild]

In the middle ages most families in the West lived in single room dwellings, so sex and nudity in front of children wasn't exactly abnormal in Western culture either.

Yes... I was thinking of this as well... and these families largely worked in farming in some form of another and so exposure to both sexuality and death were a fact of day to day life (seen in the livestock... and among the family members) in a manner quite removed from our own age.

[billl]

From all accounts from the Mongolians I've known: in the more traditional and nomadic parts of the country, sexy things might happen between parents that the youngsters learn about while living in a tent with extended family all of their lives--but it is not at all the case that the elders are screwing buck naked in plain view of the rest of the family.

EDIT: But then there's this, from a photographer in modern Japan
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blog...ard-freid.html
(check the slides beyond the first one, which isn't from at home)

[cacian]

Well, I'd say give it go then. At this stage, anything's worth a try.

give what a go?
Not wearing clothes?
No.
I much prefer clothes one me.
I look better.
Plus nudity is something I tend to associate with having a shower or hygiene.
To walk around nude is a nono. I enjoy clothes and their significance.
Alos being in the nude is private to me and me only.
I don't share it with anyone else. My choice.

[cacian]

I think you're taking it a little out of context Cacian. Households are not so much imposing nudity on children so much as it's no big deal to see each other without their clothes on. I grew up in a generation where I was thrashed for peeking at my mother whereas my girls and I enjoyed the freedom of open nudity and were given privacy when it was needed. I didn't want my girls to feel ashamed of their bodies and I had no problem with the questions they asked about mine. We didn't however live in a household where you had to take your clothes off when you got home. It just meant that we really didn't worry all that much about closing doors.

As for art, I think the male and female bodies are interesting and will always inspire artists.

it's no big deal to see each other without their clothes on

How do you know it is not a big deal for those children.
Just because they do not say or speak it does not mean they don't think it.
It is a generalisation. No one really knows what goes in those children's mind and for us to brush it on the side saying it is cultural is being slightely naive.

I grew up in a generation where I was thrashed for peeking at my mother

what do you mean peeking at your mother?

my girls and I enjoyed the freedom of open nudity and were given privacy when it was needed

I see what you mean.
I think for me there comes an age where I am very aware about not imposing my nudity around my kids.
I have two boys and they are very awareabout not exposing theirs either.
This is something that in inherent and within them.
There is nothing wrong with wanting to look and be decent/wearing clothes.
I prefer to appear in my clothes all the time in front of my children.
I don't see the importance in going nude in front of or with your children.
I don't do it and they don't and I am very content with it.

I didn't want my girls to feel ashamed of their bodies and I had no problem with the questions they asked about mine

Of course I understand that but for me I don't see it as an issue because my kids won't need to be in the nude anywhere anyway. Nudity is not something they would need to rely on in their lives so it is anot an issue for me

[Delta40]

Cacian I said its no big deal because they were born and raised into a household like that so those standards are the norm just as a household where everyone keeps their bodies hidden from each other is the norm.

When I said peeking, I meant that as a young girl I was naturally curious about my mothers body and if the bathroom door was slightly ajar I would stand there and watch her bathe herself. The thrashing I received gave me the message that I was a dirty person for wanting to look at her which I believe to be really wrong. That is why I decided not to hide my body from my own children.

[JCamilo]

It is quite a feat to have a life, give birth and be naked just for a shower. I am sure those events are meaningless and no artist would represent it. I can imagine young boys health masturbation routine while imagining girls dressed on astronauts uniforms, with helmet and all, and have a life completely empty of sexuality.

Art however has nothing to do with that.

[stlukesguild]

How do you know it is not a big deal for those children.
Just because they do not say or speak it does not mean they don't think it.
It is a generalisation. No one really knows what goes in those children's mind and for us to brush it on the side saying it is cultural is being slightely naive.

This actually suggests that you know very little about children and childhood development. "Normal" is defined by the parents, culture, and environment in which a child is reared. You are nearly imposing a racist attitude upon other cultures by making the sort of judgments that you do about their way of living: "Aww! Poor little black children running around naked and exposed to the disgusting display of nudity of their parents and other adults. They must surely be psychologically damaged."

I think for me there comes an age where I am very aware about not imposing my nudity around my kids.
I have two boys and they are very awareabout not exposing theirs either.
This is something that in inherent and within them.

Where you are wrong is in your assumption that the development you see in your children of a desire for privacy or modesty... or shame... concerning the naked body is something inherent... ingrained in them by nature. You seem to ignore the fact that beyond the need for clothing as a means of protection against the elements, it was wholly a development of civilization and varies from culture to culture. Our pre-historic ancestors did not go about clothed except when the environment demanded such. Modesty... the desire for privacy with regard to the body... and shame all all learned behavior in response to the culture in which a child is reared. This does not mean it is something taught explicitly. A child doesn't need to be told that he or she should be modest with regard to exposing his or her body. Children are very observant and recognize this behavior in their parents and among other adults whereas they have no such feelings of modesty or shame when they are very young.

[MarkBastable]

give what a go?
Not wearing clothes?

No, I meant.....oh, it doesn't matter.

[JuniperWoolf]

In the middle ages most families in the West lived in single room dwellings, so sex and nudity in front of children wasn't exactly abnormal in Western culture either. During the 19th century there developed a strange medicalizing obsession about child sexuality. Paradoxically, we've developed these systems of limiting the exposure of children to sex precisely with the intent of manipulating the sexual development of children, to make sure that they develop into psychosexually "normal" individuals.

*sigh* Sexuality has really sucked since the onset of the 19th century in so many ways. Before research of human sexuality on a cellular level, people thought that the female reproductive system was basically like the male's except inside out, so they believed that in order for a couple to conceive both the male and the female had to have an orgasm. Thanks for debunking that, modern science. *shakes fist*

[Bluehound]

The female orgasm is still believed to be an aid to conception as far as I know, something to do with contractions helping the little swimmers along.
I wouldn't really know I only indulge in the practising part my self.

[osho]

In fact man, of course woman more so, is so beautiful in their entire nudity and our outfits are veneers hypocrisy, pretense and the like. Our religions, the cultures based on them and the civilization born of all our affectation compelled man and woman to cover their nudity. Sex is done in hiding. In fact there is beauty in this and there is a separate thread under "art and mythology" and from what have been illustrated there some truths which we bury down several layers of our consciousness can be gleaned. What is seen is not our real face and our real face is beneath our garments of civilization. Shred all these drab garbs of civilization and culture nudity is what we are and our artists, poets do great service to us trying to lay bare some of the greatest untold truths about nudity. Speaking unpretentiously I like people in their nudity and I do not loathe the sight though I was told they are ugly.

I have come across a community in which people sleep stripped and lovemaking is not a repulsive activity and children are even allowed to watch the activities. We have a community in which a single woman is married even to half a dozen men and they make love in unison and their life is very harmonious and there is perfect understanding. We often become judgmental about others not understanding the thread that string their society closely together.

Nudity is our real and beautiful posture and if we look at it unaffectedly we see there beauty, sincerity and divinity. Something beyond the faked façade

[BookBeauty]

Whether nudity is art or not depends on its context.

Nudity in itself is just nudity, in my opinion. There can be nudity in art. I have drawn, painted and inked from live models. There is nothing more challenging, and fun as an artist to do so. This work, despite the fact that it is only practice, to me it is art. There is art in all forms.

I think the definition of what art can be, is very subjective, and depends upon the individual.

A more rising concern about nudity, in my mind, is the growing perversity in society, and the way that it, as a whole, is embraced as normality.

[MarkBastable]

A more rising concern about nudity, in my mind, is the growing perversity in society, and the way that it, as a whole, is embraced as normality.

Of course, no one can offer any response unless you specify what you consider to be perversion.

Or we could guess. That might be fun.

[BookBeauty]

Or we could guess. That might be fun.

Well, seeing as we're talking about art...

All right, here I go, opening up the can of worms...

Just my two cents, mind you. None of this is necessarily fact, just my own personal perspective. Consider that a disclaimer. =)

I think that the media and entertainment mediums broadcast and flaunt nudity, and sex, in order to garner ratings.

Meanwhile, subject matter, movies, series, reality television, are all becoming more and more brash, with a diminishing sense of actual substance in, sometimes, otherwise worthwhile stories.

I feel sorry for the writers of some programs that have to fit it in where it doesn't belong.

Not to mention that this stuff is starting to creep into daytime television, where a 5 year old might freely roam. I've seen some pretty crude commercials, too.

It's also in the language, in regular everyday conversations portrayed. And it continues to get more crude and showy.

Many people don't even realize it, really. They just take it in stride.

The parents should keep a watchful eye on the children anyway, but I think we all have public responsibility to be nurturing to the next generation. Heck, we should have our absolute best teaching our children, but... Maybe that is for another thread.

When it comes to nudity, sex, language and conversation, it becomes very difficult in today's society for a line to be drawn about what is appropriate, and inappropriate. In fact, there is no line. And many would argue that, that is a good thing.

But, that also begins to blur the line on ethics and morals. And it arguably begins to produce very sick individuals, that commit crimes without a moral compass.