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Thread: Is God a projection of our thoughts only?

  1. #76
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    From one perspective, there is no infinite.
    From the other perspective, there is no finite.

    God is the infinite - there is only one God, one reality. God is reality. People from different religions fight with each other only if they don't understand this. If they don't, then Buddhists will say that Hinduism is wrong because of some way they describe reality, and actually Buddhism is correct. But they will only say this if they have no real understanding of that reality - that it is infinite peace, bliss, knowledge, and existence.

    There is no way to prove to an atheist that God, that the Absolute, exists. It took me most of my life to break free of my strongly held atheist views. The first time I did was when I realized that all this had a source, that the universe had a source. I was quite happy because there was absolutely nothing illogical about this, and I thought I could share it with other atheists. At the moment I realized that, I stepped from being as absolutely an atheist as Mark, The Atheist, or anyone else, to realizing that there was more to it than I thought.

    A couple years later I had a direct experience of reality. I experienced what Buddhist, Hindu, Taoist, and Sufi mystics have once in a while seen throughout time. I cannot explain it any better than Alduous Huxley, whose seemingly simple statement contains an unknown and yet absolutely essential truth. "When the doors of perception are cleansed, all will appear to man as it is, infinite." Everything that is, is infinite. It seems like nonsense to those who say there is no infinite. From the other side, however, it's seen that there is only Reality, and nothing more. This existence is something like a dream. We think we are limited, we think we are separate from reality. When we realize that we are connected to the Source of Being, we experience that all we had thought before is nothing. It seems so far away because we feel so limited - we are ingrained with ideas that we are inherently flawed, incomplete, lacking, imperfect. There is no greater affront than to say one is perfect. When we experience our Source for the very first time it is like awakening a thousand times, like an evolution of sorts, a thousand times. A thousand times all of our doubts, fears, misconceptions are stripped away, our karma is burst open to reveal something new.

    The idea we are imperfect, incomplete and lacking is so ingrained into us, and yet it is wholly false. In this realm of subjectivity we have a great control over our lives and our reality. Our physical body alone is subject to interpretation. For some it is weak and impish; and for others it is a veritable universe of immense harmony and beauty. Taoism and Buddhism and Hinduism all revealed this truth in a surprising way.

    When I experienced my connection to the Source of Being for the first time, it was like waking up from a dream, literally and absolutely. Knowing that I came from the Source, was like feeling my feet on the ground for the very first time - although this simpler analogy doesn't capture the encompassing feeling of suddenly every level of my being knowing absolutely that I was whole and complete. My range of being - and your range of being - is not what you and I have been deluded into thinking: my physical body, ending at my skin, the sum of my conscious actions. It also includes my subconscious actions, such as growing my hair, growing my bones and the rest.

    The truth I am expressing is the unity of all opposites. It's the answer to every desire, every question, every need, every pain. The answer to every question we, as a race, ever wondered is there within every one of us. Consider a somewhat hapless humanity, wondering, wondering. The answer is there within, and a necessary component is non-duality. When you realize what you really are, the universe, you no longer have any doubt or question unanswered. It's not a piece of knowledge that can be spoken, and heard and simply known. It's an individual, personal experience which is also universal. It's found in Taoism, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Native American spirituality - these that I know of. As Black Elk said, Only when men know they are one with the universe will they know peace in their souls.

  2. #77
    www.markbastable.co.uk
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    Quote Originally Posted by NikolaiI View Post

    The idea we are imperfect, incomplete and lacking is so ingrained into us...

    Speak for yourself, bub.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkBastable View Post
    Speak for yourself, bub.
    Are you completely blind to context? I'm sorry it's just your posts always show this!!! I don't know how to say it otherwise - are you completely blind to it? The very. next. words. were. it is wholly false.

    Thanks for shedding your brilliant personality all over the place.

  4. #79
    dafydd dafydd manton's Avatar
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    Ooo-er!
    Dafydd Manton, A Legend In His Own Lunchtime!! www.dafydd-manton.co.uk

    My Work Has Been Spread Over Many Fields!

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    God is real. God is infinite. The alpha and omega.

    He made us in his image. And he loves us ^^

    just thought I'd throw that out there

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by NikolaiI View Post
    Are you completely blind to context? I'm sorry it's just your posts always show this!!! I don't know how to say it otherwise - are you completely blind to it? The very. next. words. were. it is wholly false.

    Thanks for shedding your brilliant personality all over the place.

    You said: The idea we are imperfect, incomplete and lacking is so ingrained into us, and yet it is wholly false.

    I disagree that it's so engrained in us. That's the bit I disagreed with. And I said so. I agree, on the other hand, that the idea is false. In fact I don't think it's a common idea at all.

    But, to be clear, you suggested that this false idea was deeply engrained in us, and I said that it's not. More specifically, my implication was that you're entitled to say it's engrained in you, but you can't say with such absolute and unsupported finality that it's engrained in everyone else. Or, to lay out that exchange more succinctly...

    You: The idea we are imperfect, incomplete and lacking is so ingrained into us...

    Me: Speak for yourself, bub.

    Context clear to you now?
    Last edited by MarkBastable; 08-04-2010 at 06:29 AM.

  7. #82
    Orwellian The Atheist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NikolaiI View Post
    There is no way to prove to an atheist that God, that the Absolute, exists.
    Disagree. It would actually be quite simple for a god to prove its existence to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aced View Post
    God is real. God is infinite. The alpha and omega.
    According to that, your god is everything.

    Me included.

    Go figure.
    Go to work, get married, have some kids, pay your taxes, pay your bills, watch your tv, follow fashion, act normal, obey the law and repeat after me: "I am free."

    Anon

  8. #83
    Pièce de Résistance Scheherazade's Avatar
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    W a r n i n g

    Please do not personalise your arguments.

    Posts containing personal or off-topic comments will be removed without further notice.
    ~
    "It is not that I am mad; it is only that my head is different from yours.”
    ~


  9. #84
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    Last edited by PeterL; 08-04-2010 at 01:34 PM.

  10. #85
    dafydd dafydd manton's Avatar
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    Just to add a tiny thought, to those who are believers (and I am one of them), that to make your arguments more accessible, you might try reading;
    1st Peter Chapter 3 verse 15
    Colossians Chapter 4 and verse 6
    Titus Chapter 3 and verse 2

    It might help.
    Dafydd Manton, A Legend In His Own Lunchtime!! www.dafydd-manton.co.uk

    My Work Has Been Spread Over Many Fields!

  11. #86
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    Mark Bastable.

    I was speaking about something that is widespread in our society. It comes a lot from the Christian idea, and it's become significant in the cultural consciousness - the idea that we are weak, flawed, imperfect. Why do you take it so personally and attack me so much for it? I am saying it is a very bad thing. I am not necessarily saying that you have it too. If you don't think it's a good thing, then why do you attack me so much for saying it? Can you not understand me even this much? It seems like your view is so, so tinted with the negative that even a discussion with you is impossible for you insert so many negative motives into what I say.

  12. #87
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    It's an argument, and it's intellectual. You suggested a universal truth (we are all engrained...) and I expressed disagreement.

    That was dialogue.

    Then you accused me of lacking intellectual rigour in my response. (Thanks for shedding your brilliant personality all over the place.) Not that I have anything against sarcasm (though you apparently do.)

    That was personal.

    I responded by clarifying.

    That was dialogue.

    You have responded again with an (admittedly more measured) attack on my personality.

    Again, for the last time, I'll say that I'm attacking your argument, not your person.

    Why don't you try that?

    Quote Originally Posted by NikolaiI View Post
    Mark Bastable.

    I was speaking about something that is widespread in our society. It comes a lot from the Christian idea, and it's become significant in the cultural consciousness - the idea that we are weak, flawed, imperfect. Why do you take it so personally and attack me so much for it? I am saying it is a very bad thing. I am not necessarily saying that you have it too. If you don't think it's a good thing, then why do you attack me so much for saying it? Can you not understand me even this much? It seems like your view is so, so tinted with the negative that even a discussion with you is impossible for you insert so many negative motives into what I say.
    Last edited by MarkBastable; 08-04-2010 at 04:03 PM.

  13. #88
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    Your responses to me have never been intellectual or reasoned but intensely emotional and hostile. This is why I never expected anything reasoned from you, and I won't in the future.

    ...nor did you reply to my clarification of my position. You just ignored it completely. Which is fine. Carry on then.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by NikolaiI View Post
    Your responses to me have never been intellectual or reasoned but intensely emotional and hostile. This is why I never expected anything reasoned from you, and I won't in the future.

    ...nor did you reply to my clarification of my position. You just ignored it completely. Which is fine. Carry on then.
    I wish there were a God. Because if I believed there were a God then by definition I'd believe he were on my side. Which would mean that I'd feel that one day he'd take you to the back of the room and say to you, "Sorry, old dear, he was right you know...."

    On the other hand, if there were a God I'd be able to transfer to him the responsibility of forgiving you. As there isn't one, I'm going to have to do that myself.

    ...give me a day or two.
    Last edited by MarkBastable; 08-04-2010 at 05:27 PM.

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    Here. To all nonbelivers and The Atheiest.

    God gives everybody a chance. He doesn't force Himself on you and He doesn't force you to believe in Him. He's healed me and has done sooo much for me. I Cant wait to see Him in Heaven. And if your an athiest. What happens when you die? Nothing? Why wouldn't you believe in God if you will turn to dirt anyway?? No offence. But your going to burn in Hell =[

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