Hell is other people. ~ Jean-Paul Sartre
So, at least hell is pretty real... And not going away!
Hell is other people. ~ Jean-Paul Sartre
So, at least hell is pretty real... And not going away!
~
"It is not that I am mad; it is only that my head is different from yours.”
~
A codicil to that - Hell is other people's children!
Dafydd Manton, A Legend In His Own Lunchtime!!www.dafydd-manton.co.uk
My Work Has Been Spread Over Many Fields!
Hell is a figurative domain, and when you burst into anger or try to annihilate someone to fortify your realm by subjecting others you think you are in a cloud nine pushing your adversary downwardly in a hellish state. You singly embody hell at times when the burning fire within you makes every morale melt
“Those who seek to satisfy the mind of man by hampering it with ceremonies and music and affecting charity and devotion have lost their original nature””
“If water derives lucidity from stillness, how much more the faculties of the mind! The mind of the sage, being in repose, becomes the mirror of the universe, the speculum of all creation.
I've always liked that one. If you look at Hell as Paul and I have been looking at it - people who live hell on earth, then it is literally true as well.Originally Posted by Scheherazade
________________________________________
I found a nice conundrum for the believers in a literal hell where people's "souls" go:
I am divorced and remarried, with one child by my ex-wife and three with the current one.
Who gets to live where?
Go to work, get married, have some kids, pay your taxes, pay your bills, watch your tv, follow fashion, act normal, obey the law and repeat after me: "I am free."
Anon
The question arose after this article.
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...e-1949399.html EDIT - this link didn't work for me but the original one does.
which questions the christian idea of heaven as held by many Christian and also Muslim people. it questions the origin of the idea - which it claims is derived from the Judiac tradition. The sceptical and sarcastic tone aside, it does raise interesting questions.
I think it's difficult to use words like fact when what is being considered is a question of faith.
Last edited by Paulclem; 07-01-2010 at 03:09 PM.
Well, I don't know about anyone else but I'd say that analysis was rigorously argued from an initial position of unimpeachable neutrality, and it's difficult to see how any reasonable person could disagree with the conclusions reached.
Last edited by MarkBastable; 07-01-2010 at 03:49 PM.
So the non-believer who dedicates their life to helping others, who practices love and compassion, who is a good parent, neighbour and friend, who strives for moral consistency, is there no place in the Lord's kingdom for him or her?
'Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.' - Groucho Marx
The origin of the idea of Heaven is the Bible. Anyone who does not believe in the Bible will disagree with me here, but as a Christian, I believe that the Bible was inspired by God (or God-breathed as it is often said). God inspired the writers of the Bible, having them write down what He wishes, but still keeping their unique writing style, etc. But the important part here is that if God inspired the authors of the Bible, then Heaven is not a man-made idea, it is something revealed to us from God through the Bible.
I, also, see it difficult how any reasonable person could disagree with the conclusions reached.
The fool says in his heart, “There is no God” (Psalm 14:1).
All these things are traits of true Christians, even though non-believers can also be similar in many ways. There is a common belief today that one can get into Heaven by being good people and doing nice things. At the core if this idea is an incorrect understanding of what Heaven is. Heaven is the dwelling place of God, but also what will be the New Earth after the End Times. Heaven is a place for believers to be with their God, not for unbelievers to be with someone they rejected. Where is the logic in going to a Heaven you do not believe in and being with a God you rejected all your life? The greatest sin of all is unbelief in God. Actually, this is the only sin that is unforgivable.
I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me (John 14:6).
God can forgive any sin and allow you entrance to Heaven if you confess and place your trust in Jesus Christ as savior. But except through Jesus, there is no way to Heaven. At the second part of this issue there is the misunderstanding that we can make ourselves righteous and worthy of entering Heaven.
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast (Ephesians 2:8-9).
... he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5).
Our own deeds and works can not save us, only by grace can we be saved. We must be reborn in the Holy Spirit and be renewed. Only by the gift of God we can enter Heaven. There is truly no way to Heaven except through Jesus Christ.
Last edited by Dekarto; 07-02-2010 at 06:50 AM.
The point of the article is to point out the origins of the idea of heaven and hell. I think you're talking about your faith - which I have no problem with, but the discussion is about the origin of the idea. it is disputed that our conventional idea of heaven hell, harps, animals etc is not consistent with the bible.
I just thought it would be a good debate. I'm not about challenging your particular faith.
Dekarto said:But the important part here is that if God inspired the authors of the Bible, then Heaven is not a man-made idea, it is something revealed to us from God through the Bible.
..."if"...
What if not?
I think it's something you should express a view on.
You're asking me, a fool who says in his heart that there is no God, to consider the possibility that Heaven is something revealed to me by God through the agency of the authors of the Bible. (I don't think it was necessary to call me a fool in order to get me to do that, but I'll forgive you.)
So - I agree that if the Bible is the Word of God, then Heaven is a real place that I should consider working towards.
Now - if the Bible is not the Word of God, and Heaven is a man-made idea, then what will you do?
Last edited by MarkBastable; 07-02-2010 at 07:20 AM.
This is true, and I have stated my opinion: That the origin of the idea is God. This is what I think is true, you may disagree, and then that is what you think is true. We may have different opinions and thoughts on this issue, and that is ok. If we all had the same thoughts on this, there wouldn't be a thread about it, would it?
I did not call you a fool, the Bible did, or more exact; David.
About your last question: I did for most parts of my life believe that God did not exist and that the Bible was just the Jew's version of Lord of the Rings. So this question is easy to answer. I wouldn't do a thing to get into heaven. I didn't do a thing. I thought that Heaven was a man-made idea and I wondered why people bothered to live by a lot of "dos" "don'ts" just to go to some imagenary candyshop after death. So that is what I would do, and that is what I have done.
Wait, wait. So you didn't start being good until you thought there was something in it for you?
I think that that's worse than not being good.
Did you just happen to read that with absolutely no comrephension at all?
Ok - so where does it describe the idea of heaven currently subscribed to? The images of heaven - are they harps, clouds, meeting loved ones, birdsong, animals? That's what lots of people think of with the idea of heaven - or am I wrong? If this is so - what part of the bible are they from?
No, I got it. Until he believed in God and Heaven he (or possibly she) "wondered why people bothered to live by a lot of "dos" "don'ts" just to go to some imagenary candyshop after death".
Now, however, he does believe in God and Heaven, and he has a reason to live by the 'dos and donts'.
So the behaviour is reward-driven.
Last edited by MarkBastable; 07-02-2010 at 05:42 PM.
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