The puzzle of Beethoven's Kochs!

[Musicology]

Yanni,

I am saying the various Cocchi's to whom you are refering were part of a network. As so often said here. That network consisted of a fraternity. It involved members of the Freemasons, the Knights of Malta, the Hospitallers and various others involved in the cultural movement known (eventually) as the 'enlightenment'. A movement which emerged from the Counter-Reformation and which had begun centuries before, shortly after the alliance made between Venice and the newly founded Jesuit Order. Out of that alliance came creation of the British Empire on the model of earlier Venice (complete with its slave trading and banking system) and out of this movement developed Freemasonry, later (in its British form) exported to continental Europe, then the Illuminatists, and globalism.

The globalist system required global heroes. Nowhere more clearly than in the idea of 'Vienna, city of music'. And these, in the cultural/musical sphere include the giant heroes of the Viennese classical period. Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven. Whose careers and musical reputations were constructed in the late 18th and early 19th century - exported ever since and towering over the actual history of music - together with the repeated rewriting of musical history by the same music industry. The whole story of this 'control' hardly discussed in textbooks. And thus, as early as 1814, the works of 'Mozart' already dominated the early concerts of orchestras such as the London Philharmonia in London. 'Vienna, city of music' emerged out of this same period over the decades. And this involved the time and talents of many musicians whose names are today hardly known. Amongst them in its earlier stages was G. Cocchi (whose name was already on a list of people to meet when the Mozart's arrived in London). Cocchi (and other members of his same family) were already associates of ruling elites in England as already said. Part of the same huge movement. Out of which, eventually, came the European Union, and other globalist culture. That took time because the main feature of the early 19th century was of course newly found nationalism. So those decades were used to develop the musical super-heroes of Vienna.

You are now skipping two centuries to draw conclusions from the present "equilibrium", suggesting even that "freely accessible history" should be taken for granted.

Malta only became part of the British Empire at the turn of the 18th-19th century(it was Bourbon controlled for the better part of the 18th) and we (I at least) trace the roots of "globalism" in the pre 1750's.

Indeed I have been attributing "it" to french diplomacy and I was wrong:

Cocchi-Koch's major diplomatic achievements was the liberation of "West Indies" and the creation of a greater Germany at the expense of France, Poland and the Holy Empire, he was propably financed by the Salomons and the Mendelsohns and assisted by Britain's first ever "reformist" regent.

An ideal "fiddler on the roof", he succeeded in all his goals and more but....

...it's his music that I don't like.

Regards.

[yanni]

The term "counter reformation" you have been using is ambiguous, a protestant designed term to confuse the issue of Henry VIII's separation of the Church of England from Rome.

Roman Catholics don't use it , their term for the Council of Trent onwards period is "Catholic Reformation" or "Catholic Revival"!

Anyhow, your "British Empire" came to existence during Henry VIII's reign, if not before, and you have yet to produce evidence of an "alliance between Venice and the newly founded Jesuit order" existing at the time and/or having anything to do with heavily indebted Henry.Rome and their Jesuits were in fact his enemies (promoting the Stuarts for the next two and a half centuries).

The birth (or rebirth if you like) of Freemasonry follows the Medici collapse(1700's)* and "liberal" Florence's takeover by "Holy" Austria, develops then in parallel to the strengthening of Florence's british colony** and matures with the appointment of Samuel Cocceji-Koch as Prussia's chancellor in 1732 (his obvious relative, Antonio Cocchi, an earlier friend of Isaac Newton, initiated in Fl. 1734). Then comes "french enlightment",1745's (Saint Germain/Rousseau/A.H.Cochin's London&Paris arrival)

ie

"enlightment" came via Prussia &"colonised" Florence to Paris, the process covered up eversince through relative "research" institutes and societies all over!

So, no, I don't agree with what you write and my conclusions on the "Illuminati" and their "french Enlightment" remain firm!

Malta only became part of the British Empire at the turn of the 18th-19th century(it was Bourbon controlled for the better part of the 18th) and we (I at least) trace the roots of "globalism" in the pre 1750's.

Indeed I have been attributing "it" to french diplomacy and I was wrong:

(Gioachino) Cocchi-Koch's major diplomatic achievements were the liberation of "West Indies" and the creation of a greater Germany at the expense of France, Poland and the Holy Empire, he was propably financed by the Salomons and the Mendelsohns and assisted by Britain's first ever "reformist" regent.

An ideal "fiddler on the roof", he succeeded in all his goals and more but....

...it's his music that I don't like.

And that's final***!

Regards

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Heinrich und Samuel von Cocceji: "Dissertatio de principio Juris naturae unico, vero et adequato", Frankfurt/O 1699. Wiki: Heinrich Freiherr von Cocceji (March 25, 1644 – August 18, 1719) was a German jurist from Bremen. He studied in Leiden and Oxford and was appointed professor of law at Heidelberg (1672) and in Utrecht (1688). Named Geheimrat and marquis, he became ordinary professor in the faculty of law at Frankfurt (Oder), where he later died.

**For earlier links see "Sir Robert Dudley, (7 August 1574 – 6 September 1649), engineer, sailor and cartographer" and his relations to the Medicis and their "Cocchini printers" in Florence.

***"Final" until the little matter of the identities mix-up between the two "Labordes" is settled:
Laborde, qui l'avait rencontré en 1781 à Strasbourg, fait de l'illustre fumiste Cagliostro un éloge enthousiaste en 1783 dans ses Lettres sur la Suisse.Pendant son séjour à Paris (raccourci par l'affaire du Collier), en 1785, Cagliostro y installa son Rite Egyptien auquel adhérèrent notamment, selon Chevallier dans son Histoire de la Franc-maçonnerie française (Fayard, 1974), le duc de Luxembourg et "le fermier général Laborde" qui en formèrent un Suprême Conseil. Selon le Dictionnaire de la Franc-maçonnerie (PUF) de Ligou, à l'article Cagliostro, le poste de Grand Inspecteur y aurait été occupé par Jean-Bernard de Laborde, mais il s'agit probablement d'un lapsus, le seul homonyme quelque peu connu de Jean-Benjamin à l'époque ayant été Jean-Joseph de la Borde, également financier, également guillotiné, mais sans lien de parenté (et dont rien n'indique à notre connaissance qu'il ait été maçon).

[Musicology]

No problem Yanni. You believe what you want. I will support this view elsewhere by many evidences.

Regards

The term "counter reformation" you have been using is ambiguous, a protestant designed term to confuse the issue of Henry VIII's separation of the Church of England from Rome.

Roman Catholics don't use it , their term for the Council of Trent onwards period is "Catholic Reformation" or "Catholic Revival"!

Anyhow, your "British Empire" came to existence during Henry VIII's reign, if not before, and you have yet to produce evidence of an "alliance between Venice and the newly founded Jesuit order" existing at the time and/or having anything to do with heavily indebted Henry.Rome and their Jesuits were in fact his enemies (promoting the Stuarts for the next two and a half centuries).

The birth (or rebirth if you like) of Freemasonry follows the Medici collapse(1700's)* and "liberal" Florence's takeover by "Holy" Austria, develops then in parallel to the strengthening of Florence's british colony** and matures with the appointment of Samuel Cocceji-Koch as Prussia's chancellor in 1732 (his obvious relative, Antonio Cocchi, an earlier friend of Isaac Newton, initiated in Fl. 1734). Then comes "french enlightment",1745's (Saint Germain/Rousseau/A.H.Cochin's London&Paris arrival)

ie

"enlightment" came via Prussia &"colonised" Florence to Paris, the process covered up eversince through relative "research" institutes and societies all over!

So, no, I don't agree with what you write and my conclusions on the "Illuminati" and their "french Enlightment" remain firm!

Malta only became part of the British Empire at the turn of the 18th-19th century(it was Bourbon controlled for the better part of the 18th) and we (I at least) trace the roots of "globalism" in the pre 1750's.

Indeed I have been attributing "it" to french diplomacy and I was wrong:

(Gioachino) Cocchi-Koch's major diplomatic achievements were the liberation of "West Indies" and the creation of a greater Germany at the expense of France, Poland and the Holy Empire, he was propably financed by the Salomons and the Mendelsohns and assisted by Britain's first ever "reformist" regent.

An ideal "fiddler on the roof", he succeeded in all his goals and more but....

...it's his music that I don't like.

And that's final***!

Regards

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Heinrich und Samuel von Cocceji: "Dissertatio de principio Juris naturae unico, vero et adequato", Frankfurt/O 1699. Wiki: Heinrich Freiherr von Cocceji (March 25, 1644 – August 18, 1719) was a German jurist from Bremen. He studied in Leiden and Oxford and was appointed professor of law at Heidelberg (1672) and in Utrecht (1688). Named Geheimrat and marquis, he became ordinary professor in the faculty of law at Frankfurt (Oder), where he later died.

**For earlier links see "Sir Robert Dudley, (7 August 1574 – 6 September 1649), engineer, sailor and cartographer" and his relations to the Medicis and their "Cocchini printers" in Florence.

***"Final" until the little matter of the identities mix-up between the two "Labordes" is settled:
Laborde, qui l'avait rencontré en 1781 à Strasbourg, fait de l'illustre fumiste Cagliostro un éloge enthousiaste en 1783 dans ses Lettres sur la Suisse.Pendant son séjour à Paris (raccourci par l'affaire du Collier), en 1785, Cagliostro y installa son Rite Egyptien auquel adhérèrent notamment, selon Chevallier dans son Histoire de la Franc-maçonnerie française (Fayard, 1974), le duc de Luxembourg et "le fermier général Laborde" qui en formèrent un Suprême Conseil. Selon le Dictionnaire de la Franc-maçonnerie (PUF) de Ligou, à l'article Cagliostro, le poste de Grand Inspecteur y aurait été occupé par Jean-Bernard de Laborde, mais il s'agit probablement d'un lapsus, le seul homonyme quelque peu connu de Jean-Benjamin à l'époque ayant été Jean-Joseph de la Borde, également financier, également guillotiné, mais sans lien de parenté (et dont rien n'indique à notre connaissance qu'il ait été maçon).

[yanni]

A strange change of attitude that might be seen as "not the best of manners" by our hosts, spoiled as they are by your ample previous presentations of "facts".

Still, thanking you for your participation, please remember in your future endeavours a "Cassanea de Mondonville" whose music bears peculiar similarities to J.S.Bach's and whose name reveals Casanova's "globalism"*!

Adieu!

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* Cassanea = Casa (house)+Nea (new in grk) ie has the same meaning as "Casanova" (itln). Mondo=World(itln)+"on Ville"=town(frn) ie "global village or town".
The double s of "Cassanea":the mark of the bearer wishing to reveal or declare his "Cassini" roots.

and, if still not convinced...

Zie voor deze indeling o.a. H. Faulenbach, 'Johannes Coccejus' in; M. Greschat, Orthodoxie und Pietismus, Stuttgart 1982, p. 163-176. Voor het conflict over de sabbat en de kwestie van de 'paresis' en 'aphesis', zie W.J. van Asselt, 'Voetius en Coccejus over de rechtvaardiging', in: J. van Oort e.a. (red.), De onbekende Voetius. Voordrachten wetenschappelijk symposium Utrecht 3 maart 1989, Kampen 1989, p.32-47. Hier vindt men ook de belangrijkste literatuur vermeld over deze kwesties. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Coccejus

No problem Yanni. You believe what you want. I will support this view elsewhere by many evidences.

Regards

[yanni]

The select few readers of this thread are advised that "works" will soon be reassumed, possibly in the form of a monologue, aiming to provide answers to all outstanding questions of 18th century classical music composers, their true identities and their undoubtable "Koch" influence.
With regard to their intent, no more needs be said!

[yanni]

Even if my "all aliases" mastertimeline has in the meantime been almost completed*and is looking very promising, today's discovery of Buchenwald's Kochs (from Darmstadt)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Otto_Koch makes completion of this thread a superfluous waste of time and a nightmare as well.

My curiosity thus satiated to exhaustion, I terminate my writing.

Thank you for reading me and....

...thank me for not publishing my conclusions!

"Yanni".

*pending input only from http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conrad_von_Koch a protestant family very much involved in the whole "manufacturing matter". With strong links to Darmstadt.

[yanni]

Continue with "The puzzle of the socalled Bach Variations" at

http://www.online-literature.com/for...d.php?p=917997

(reconfirmng Saint Germain's Cocchi-Koch identity and providing concrete evidence of his controlling influence on JS"Bach" as well)