The Cassinis were hugenots and with ties to british academics long before the revolution, Robert.
"Johann Georg Hamann", Goethe's tutor in philosophy* and possibly the lute, was "lutheran pietist" according to Wikipedia. Imo he was a naturalist at heart, much like "Rousseau". Like him, he as well....
...is the man who infected his century with his spirit and completely changed it. That awakening of the inner man around 1760 which found its artistic expression in classic-romantic culture arose from Hamann . The enigmatic power which this rare man radiated forth into his entire age is among the insoluble secrets of the history of human thought and spirit.
(J.Nadler, † 14. Januar 1963 in Wien. Notice how he distinguishes -and thus separates-H's spirit from the physical man and his identity.)
"Philidor" played a lot of chess (all over, he even taught Frederic "Grosse" chess, at the time of "Koch" theater establishment in Dresden, while Voltaire, "Collini" and Cocceji and his(their) "Barberina" were there to.Neefe was very close to this Koch theater man from his childhood, he was thus propably a lutheran pietist as well.)
As for "Grossman", I have no idea what his faith was, really.
Now concentrate on the reduced puzzle please, or else I'll start with Mozart's&Beethoven's "Prince Lichnowsky" (Lychnos=oil lamp in grk as all occultists know."Lichnos" differs however) of 1789-1809.
* Do read: "Johann Georg Hamann's relational metacriticism" by Gwen Griffith Dickson. Excellent work. Surpisingly, another Henkel, possibly a naturalist-pietist, first published Hamann's correspondence.
Originally Posted by Musicology
And for those who are in no distress at all.
Best wishes to you Yanni.
Last edited by yanni; 04-05-2010 at 06:25 AM.
Reason: include Mozart, "Lichnos". "Hamann", add quotes, Henkel.
Grossmann was another 'stooge' of the occultist/Jacobin takeover of the musical culture of the 'Enlightenment'. Near the end of his life he was arrested in Germany for praising the brutal regime of the tyrant Robespierre in Paris. The same Grossmann who, from 1783, was manager of the touring theatre group that left employment with the Hofkapelle in Bonn and toured theatres with singers and actors all across Germany. Including the 1785 premiere (at Frankfurt) of 'Le Nozze di Figaro' which Mozart research seems to have forgotten about. (A year before Mozart is said to have composed it). LOL !
Here is the Frankfurt 'Figaro' Playbill of that year. (1785). With the name of the production manager, the same Herr Grossmann etc. But don't tell this to supporters of W.A. Mozart, will you ? LOL !!
Please provide references (such as a serious biography* for instance) that Grossmann was arrested in Germany for praising the brutal regime of the tyrant Robespierre in Paris.
...and also advise exact date of the Frankfurt April 85 premiere and if Grossmann himself was there(as he could well be acc to my timeline) or someone else directed his company as the playbill's photo does not load clearly on my screen to read.
For me the questionmark now is not on Grossmann anymore but Beaumarchais himself.
The premiere (at Frankfurt) of ‘Figaro’ was on Monday 11th April 1785 with the Grossmann group (on tour at the time). Fully 1 year before the Vienna premiere of ‘Mozart’s’ opera ‘Le Nozze di Figaro’. (I have copies of the Frankfurt newspapers in the days leading up to that event which confirm Grossmann's arrival in that city).
Grove says -
He also translated Rousseau's Pygmalion and adapted Shakespeare plays. His volume of Singspiele nach ausländischen Mustern für die deutsche Bühne (Frankfurt, 1783) included works that enjoyed considerable popularity in their day; Adelheid von Veltheim, set by Joseph Grätz and later Neefe (who became musical director of the company in 1779) was very successful for a number of years, and Nicht mehr als sechs Schüsseln (Bonn, 1780) was an influential early example of domestic comedy. Was vermag ein Mädchen nicht?, a Singspiel set by Neefe in 1789, was also popular. He was on close terms with Lessing and Schiller (of whose Fiesko he gave the first performance), and enjoyed a friendly relationship with Goethe's mother. In 1788, the year after his company had given Mozart's Die Entführung at Hanover under B.A. Weber, he mounted one of the earliest productions of Le nozze di Figaro at Lübeck and Frankfurt. Don Giovanni was also in his company's repertory. F.X. Gerl was a member of the company in 1786, and the famous actor K.W.F. Unzelmann was one of the star attractions. Until the disastrous production in Hanover of his last play, Grossmann had enjoyed high regard wherever he performed, though some contemporaries mentioned his restless and sometimes difficult temperament.
//
Grossmann (1746-96) was an Illuminati member (as was Neefe, Simrock and others at Bonn) who was briefly arrested in Hanover during his last tour there. He died shortly afterwards.
//
Reading material includes -
C.H. Schmid: Chronologie des deutschen Theaters (Leipzig, 1775); ed. P. Legband (Berlin, 1902)
K. Goedeke and others: Grundriss zur Geschichte der deutschen Dichtung, iv/1 (Dresden, 2/1891), 254
J. Wolter: Gustav Friedrich Wilhelm Grossmann: ein Beitrag zur deutschen Litteratur- und Theatergeschichte des 18. Jahrhunderts (Cologne, 1901)
E. Pies: Prinzipale: zur Genealogie des deutschsprachigen Berufstheaters vom 17. bis 19. Jahrhundert (Ratingen, 1973), 145–7
T.A. Bauman: Music and Drama in Germany: a Traveling Company and its Repertory, 1767–1781 (diss., U. of California, Berkeley, 1977)
T. Bauman: North German Opera in the Age of Goethe (Cambridge UP, 1985)
//
And below is a picture of the Comediehaus theatre in Frankfurt am Main (demolished in 1902) -
//
Hanover was also the place where Baron Knigge (Illuminatist and stooge of the British Empire, as was his father before him) lived. And the German text of 'Figaro' (which we find on the alleged and bogus 'autograph' of that score) is attributed to Knigge himself (and/or his young daughter).
//
Regards
Last edited by Musicology; 04-06-2010 at 07:30 AM.
I am adding more data (on music, "Cassini" and "occultism") in my timeline, Robert, and will then smooth it out and present it here, covering 1783-1786, a very important period, trying in parallel to distinguish who is who between aliases and real people, a formidable task.
You are certainly right about the period 1783-6. It's massively important.
Oh, before I forget, a friend of mine has a Greek friend who arrived yesterday in London. I'm due to meet both of them tomorrow. This Greek man writes on aspects of European history also.
Regards
Originally Posted by yanni
I am adding more data (on music, "Cassini" and "occultism") in my timeline, Robert, and will then smooth it out and present it here, covering 1783-1786, a very important period, trying in parallel to distinguish who is who between aliases and real people, a formidable task.
It will take a few more days.
Best regards.
Last edited by Musicology; 04-07-2010 at 07:52 AM.
The % number of history researchers to the overall population is proportional to the unemployment rate, not just in Greece.
The most important period concerning Modern Greece (created post 1821) dates back to the 1750's and has never been really "researched thru".
Regards.
Originally Posted by Musicology
Hi there Yanni,
You are certainly right about the period 1783-6. It's massively important.
Oh, before I forget, a friend of mine has a Greek friend who arrived yesterday in London. I'm due to meet both of them tomorrow. This Greek man writes on aspects of European history also.
Yes, that is more or less what the Greek man says. The more history is studied, the better. And the period back to the 1750's may well be studied in some detail. This is all good news.
Originally Posted by yanni
The % number of history researchers to the overall population is proportional to the unemployment rate, not just in Greece.
The most important period concerning Modern Greece (created post 1821) dates back to the 1750's and has never been really "researched thru".
JSBach's life and career were very much determined by Cocceji-Koch family.
Acc to Wikipedia Bach's health was in decline in 1749 and he died on 28 July 1750 at the age of 65.
Here is a short selection for you to put in your timeline (and add to http://musicandhistory.com who avoid pre 1752 musical events) and drasticaly alter, among others, your JSBach "perspective" :
1741-1750 TIMELINE
1741.15. 03. Der Wirkliche Geheime Etats- und Kriegsminister, Samuel Freiherr von Cocceji, trifft, aus Breslau und Glogau kommend, wieder in Berlin ein.
Gluck- Artaserse (Artaxerxès), livret de Métastase, joué à Milan le 26 décembre 1741
Russia. Elizabeth crowned herself Empress in the Dormition Cathedral on April 25, 1742.
Gluck-Demetrio (2.5.1742 Venezia SS) [Cleonice]
Already in 1742 in Florence (Italy) Antonio Cocchi presented to the Earl of Richecourt a report on the Hospital of Santa Maria Nuova.
In 1742, most of Silesia was seized by King Frederick the Great of Prussia in the War of the Austrian Succession and subsequently made the Prussian Province of Silesia. King Frederick II of Prussia appointed Cocceji to lead the legal reorganization of annexed Silesia.The formal approval of Cocceji's proposals followed on March 26th, 1742. In this missive he was asked to prepare an instruction for the Vicar General and a patent notifying the Silesian officials of the change in Catholic conditions. Frederick trusted completely in Cocceji's ability, since he possessed " the necessary insight both into spiritual rights and into the tricks of the Papal clerics " and would thus be able to take whatever precautions were necessary.*
1742 bis 1745 studierte Grimm an der Universität Leipzig Jura, Literatur und Philosophie
1742–43. Voltaire is on a secret mission in Prussia rallying Frederick to the assistance of the French Army.
COCCHI, Antonio Celestino Del vitto pitagorico per uso della medicina Franc.Moücke Florence 1743
Gluck Demofoonte (6.1.1743 Milano RD)
May 1743 Rousseau begins the opera of the gallant Muses.
July. Rousseau leaves Paris for Venice as secretary of the French ambassador.
Gluck- Il Tigrane (26.9.1743 Crema)
Sept 1743. La Barberina is in Paris with Ludwig Cocceji(Als „Tänzerin Barberina“ hatte der Freiherr(Carl Ludwig Cocceji) sie im September 1743 in Paris kennengelernt und von dort auf Befehl des Königs nach Berlin.
Cocchi-Adelaide (carn.1743 Roma D)
Durazzo. Marchese (detto Conte) Giacomo Pier Francesco, Patrizio Genovese, ascritto al Libro d’Oro della Nobiltà il 13-XII-1743.
1744
Gluck.La Sofonisba (13?.1.1744 Milano RD) [Siface]
Barberina In 1744 she was hired by Frederick the Great of Prussia for an engagement in Berlin, but instead of honouring it she travelled with her lover, Lord Stuart Mackenzie, to Venice. The king then had her brought to Berlin by military guard wo sie am 8. Mai 1744 ihr Debüt an der Königliche Hofoper feierte, an das sich zahlreiche weitere Erfolge anreihten. Sie konnte in den Vertragsverhandlungen mit der Oper ihr jährliches Salär selbst bestimmen. Es betrug schließlich die für damalige Zeiten unglaubliche Summe von 7000 Reichsthaler im Jahr. Zurückzuführen könnte dies auf ein gemutmaßtes Verhältnis mit dem König selbst sein, das der Tänzerin neben zahlreicher anderen Liebschaften nachgesagt wurde. Die Karriere in Berlin endete schließlich 1749 abrupt, als sie einen Heiratsantrag auf offener Bühne annahm, den ihr Carl Ludwig von Cocceji,
Cocchi.L'Elisa (aut.1744 Napoli F)
Gluck. Ipermestra (21.11.1744 Venezia SGG)
Gluck. Poro (26.12.1744 Torino TR)
In 1745 Diderot became the editor of the Encyclopédie together with mathematician Jean Le Rond d'Alembert.
1745 —In January, Voltaire took up his abode in Versailles to superintend rehearsals, and in consideration of his labors at the fête, the king appointed him historiographer of France, on a yearly salary of 2,000 francs, and promised him the next vacant chair in the Academy. Voltaire considered this fair remuneration for a year of much toil in matters of the court. During these turbulent times, when a skilful pen was needed he was called upon. He was at this time in high favor with the king; Madame de Pompadour and many other influential persons also favored his aspirations. Voltaire dedicated “Mahomet” to the Pope, and sent a copy and a letter to him, out of which grew an interesting correspondence, the publication of which proclaimed his good standing with the head of the Church.
Gluck. Ippolito (31.1.1745 Milano RD) [Fedra]
Cocchi. L'Irene (spr.1745 Napoli F)
1745. Birth of Savalette de Lange
Referring to the year 1745, Rousseau said in his Confessions:I had also become intimate with the abbé de Condillac, who, like myself, cut no figure in the literary world, but who was born to be what he has become to-day.
Francis, Holy Roman Emperor,King of the Romans Reign 13 September 1745-18August 1765 Coronation 4 October 1745, Frankfurt
Gluck attended his coronation enroute from Milan to London together with Lobkowitz.
In 1745, at the invitation of Lord Middlesex, Gluck accompanied Prince Lobkowitz to England. On the way, they visited Paris where Gluck became acquainted with French opera and admired Rameau.
In London, where he had been asked to be house composer at the King’s Theatre Gluck gave two operas there and played two concerts on the musical glasses. He may also have met Handel, who is supposed to have said of the younger composer, “He knows no more of counterpoint than my cook.” Gluck’s London sojourn was short, as he was in Dresden by June 1747, composing operas for and possibly singing with a traveling opera troupe run by Pietro Mingotti
"The Pythagorean diet, of vegetables only, conducive to the preservation of health, and the cure of diseases" A discourse delivered at Florence, in the month of August, 1743, by Antonio Cocchi, ... Translated from the Italian.
Published 1745, printed for R. Dodsley; and sold by M. Cooper (London)
St Germain is released although previously accused for spying. Walpole says: He sings, plays on the violin wonderfully, composes, is mad, and not very sensible.
Walpole, Correspondence, Yale, v.26 (1954). Letter to Horace Mann, 9 Dec 1745, pp.20-21.
Gluck also performed operas in London during 1745-46, where he met Handel and the latter's music. Although Handel thought him to be a poor contrapuntist, they became friends. (After further travel-Dresden, Copenhagen, Naples, Prague-he settled in Vienna in 1752 as Konzertmeister of the Prince of Saxe-Hildburghausen's orchestra, then as Kapellmeister.
1746
Gluck- La Caduta de' Giganti représenté au Théâtre de Haymarket à Londres le 7 janvier 1746
Gluck- Artamene (4.3.1746 OS London H) Artamene, opéra en 3 actes, livret de l'abbé Vanneschi, représenté au Théâtre de Haymarket à Londres le 4 mars 1746
March 28, 1746. One only, first and last (including adjacent years) reference to “german” Gluck (music playing with water filled glasses) (http://ichriss.ccarh.org/HRD/1746.htm)
Voltaire He was elected to the Academy in 1746.
As he confesses, Rousseau: 1746 (till 1750)worked for Dupin de Franceuil family. (Monsieur Dupin was a receiver general of finances). Rousseau formed new musical projects, and he was introduced by degrees to people ofrank and influence, among them Madame d’Epinay (q.v.), to whom in 1747 he was introduced by her lover M. de Francueil
Until the publication of Condillac’s first book in 1746, his brother will doubtless have seemed his mentor. However, the abbé de Mably separated himself increasingly from the philosophes and moved out to Marly, while Condillac with his further philosophical publications was in close contact with Diderot and d’Alembert.
Cocchi-L'ipocondriaco risanato (1746 Roma V),Cocchi- Bajazette (1746 Roma D) cover page: He signs as Gioachino Rossini, Cocchi-I due fratelli beffati (win.1746 Napoli N)
1747
Voltaire 1747 “The Prodigal,” before the king. was a striking success, but because of a poem to Madame de Pompadour “an indiscreet allusion to her relations with the king”, the king was induced to sign an order for his exile. This was followed by his hurried flight from court. At midnight, Voltaire, returning to his house in Fontainebleau, ordered the horses hitched to the carriage, and before daybreak left for Paris. He took refuge with the duchess du Maine in Sceaux.
January 10th, 1747, Cocceji and his Six set out for Pommern. On a longish Enterprise, in that Province and the others
March 1747 Prince Friedrich von Sachsen Gotha with his governor Thun frequents Gaspard Fritz in Geneva who dedicates a work to him in 1755.
Cocchi.La maestra (spr.1747 Napoli N) [La scaltra governatrice]
Gluck. Le nozze d'Ercole e d'Ebe (29.6.1747 Pillnitz)
Baron Bagge? Nulla di preciso conosciamo, invece, sulla sua iniziazione alla massoneria (che potrebbe essere avvenuta a Berlino prima del 1747, quando il Bagge* frequentò Federico II e da questi ricevette il titolo di ciambellano) (Samuel Cocceji was Großkanzler (grand chancellor) of Prussia in 1747).
1747 death of Henri Cochin, one of the most famous lawyers of the Parlement de Paris, praised by Voltaire for his progressive ideas. H.Cochin is the father of Augustin Henry Cochin.
1747 La Correspondance littéraire, philosophique et critique Directeur de la rédaction Melchior Grimm
1747 Philidor visits England under the auspices of Sir Janssen, strongest English player. He also defeats Stamma in a match at Slaughter's in London. Ten games.
1747 dall’Egitto e da Malta, attraverso l’opera iniziatica di illustri personaggi, tra i quali spicca l’opera di Raimondo di Sangro, Principe di San Severo, confluisce a Napoli una intensa attività di ricerca e di studio della Scienza Muratoria di Tradizione egizia.http://www.memphismisraim.it/id28.htm
About 12th Dec 47 C.L Cocceji is with Barberina in Berlin listening to the music of Carl Philip Emmanuel Bach-Bagge (The correspondence of Christian Gottfried Krause: a music lover in the age ... by Darrell Berg)
December 1747, Rouseau back in Paris
After Johanna Elisabeth was expelled from Russia in 1747, Betskoy comes to Paris … where he spent the following 15 years in commerce with the French Encyclopédistes and Jean-Jacques Rousseau.
1748. Montesquieu, The Spirit of the Laws.
Blason: Cochin - Claude-Denis, 1748. (the botanist)- D’azur, au chevron d’or, accompagné an chef de deux coqs d’or et en pointe d’une tour d’argent.
One of Paris most famous gardens by Claude Denis Cochin, today Le Jardin des Plantes). Georges Leclerc comte de Buffon, Intendant du Jardin du Roi, de l’Académie Françoise, et de l’Académie royale des Science.
Cocchi: Merope (20.1.1748 Napoli SC)
A.E.Waite: At the French court St Germain was seen about 1748
In 1748 Condillac had published anonymously the dissertation Les monades, with which he won a prize awarded by the Academy of Berlin.
Die schöne und intelligente Tänzerin hatte nicht wenige Verehrer, was den König so erzürnte, dass er der Barberina 1748 als „perfide und verführerische Kreatur“ seine Gunst entzog. Sie floh nach England, kam aber bald zurück und heiratete 1749 Carl Ludwig von Cocceji.
Rousseau moves to La Chevrette spring 1748 and is asked to take part in his “L’Engagement téméraire (OC I, p. 346 et 1423)” given six months to prepare himself for τhε role, a role he never gets. The performance takes place 14th September 1748
1748 Sommer: Gottfried Heinrich Koch und andere wichtige Schauspieler verlassen die Neubersche Gesellschaft und gehen nach Wien an das Theater am Kärtnertor.
La Semiramide riconosciuta (14.5.1748 Wien B) Gluck's first opera for Vienna. The day before had seen the celebration of the young Empress Maria Theresa’s birthday
In 1748,Gluck…Aachen, Semiramide riconosciuta , on a booklet of Métastase.
Philidor In 1748, at Aachen, he wrote his L’analyze des échecs (later revised as Analyse du jeu des échecs). With the help of the Duke of Cumberland, whom he met at Eindhoven, the book was published in London (1749);
Mitte 1748 unternahm Grimm mit seinem Schüler Gottlob Ludwig von Schönberg eine Reise nach Paris.
treaty of Aix-la-Chapelle (October 18, 1748).
1749
Grimm, der sich seit 1749 in Paris befand und von Deutschland Kenntniß und Neigung für die italiänische Musik mitgebracht hatte.By Jahreswechsel 1748/49 wechselte Grimm in den Haushalt des Herzogs Friedrich von Sachsen-Gotha und wurde dessen Vorleser. Später avancierte Grimm zum Sekretär des Grafen August Heinrich von Friesen.
Prince Friedrich of Sachsen Gotha becomes aquainted with Rousseau. Melchior Grimm is his tutor. (Confessions: ....deux Allemands attachés au prince: l’un, appelé M. Klupffell, homme de beaucoup d’esprit, était son chapelain, et devint ensuite son gouverneur, après avoir supplanté le baron; l’autre était un jeune homme, appelé M. Grimm, qui lui servait de lecteur en attendant qu’il trouvât.)
Rousseau apporte son soutien à Diderot, emprisonné à la suite de la Lettre sur les aveugles à l’usage de ceux qui voient en 1749.
Marie Fell: She sang on January 4, 1749, in the opera of Roland, before the Dauphine; ..... (about 40 years later buys the house of State Councillor Augustin Henry Cochin for the sum of 9325 livres)
Gluck. La contesa de' numi (9.4?.1749 København)
Cocchi: Farsetta in musica (1749 Roma V) ,La serva bacchettona (spr.1749 Napoli F), Siface (carn.1749 Napoli SC),Arminio (carn.1749 Roma A).
Barberina: She danced at the Berlin Court Opera until 1748, when she fell out of favour with the Prussian king over her love affair with Charles-Louis de Cocceji, son of the king's chancellor. In 1749 she married Cocceji secretly against his family's wishes, accompanying him to exile in Silesia
Voltaire: 1749 —Madame du Châtelet died under peculiar circumstances in August. Voltaire found solace in play-writing. He set up house in Paris, and invited his niece, Madame Denis, to manage for him, which she did for the remainder of his days, and thus at the age of fifty-six he had a suitable and becoming home in his native city, with an income of 74,000 francs a year, equal to about fifty thousand dollars to-day.
Durazzo Marchese (detto Conte) Giacomo Pier Francesco, Patrizio Genovese, Ministro Residente della Repubblica di Genova a Vienna dal 21-IX-1749
Koch. Oktober.Eröffnung einer neuen Bühne im großen Blumenberg.
Heinrich Gottfried Koch kehrt zurück und erhält das sächsisch-polnische Hof-Komödianten-Privileg.
Hennin débuta dans la carrière diplomatique en 1749 au dépôt des Affaires Etrangères à Paris sur la recommandation de Broglie
Pierre-Michel Hennin obtint le 18 novembre1749 de M. de Puisieulx, ministre des Affaires étrangères, (is employed at the Foreign Affairs)
Charles Nicholas Cochin NC:Les voyageurs partaient le 20 décembre 1749. Ils revenaient à la fin de septembre 1751.
Maupertuis, the French President of the Academy of Berlin, may have been influential in securing Condillac’s election to the Academy in 1749. Condillac wrote to him on Christmas Day 1749 to express his pleasure and gratitude at being elected to that body. Their correspondence corrects the mistaken later date of Condillac’s election given by Puchesse.In the letter Condillac said that it was a friend, M. d’Alembert, who had given him the news.
1750
In the same year (1750) in which Turgot traced an outline of historical Progress at the Sorbonne, Rousseau laid before the Academy of Dijon a theory of historical Regress. This Academy had offered a prize for the best essay on the question whether the revival of sciences and arts had contributed to the improvement of morals. The prize was awarded to Rousseau.
Cocchi: La Gismonda (spr.1750 Napoli F)
Voltaire left Paris June 15th, and reached, July 10th, Sans-Souci, near Potsdam, the country place of the king, seventeen miles from Berlin.
JSBACH....died on 28 July 1750 at the age of 65
August 25th, 1750 Collini is in Berlin with the Barberinas and Voltaire
Gluck. Ezio (carn.1750 Praha)
Cocchi. Siroe (carn.1750 Venezia SGG),
Voltaire is a guest of FredericII until 1753.
Voltaire is known to have used at least 178 separate pen names during his lifetime.
*Nulla di preciso conosciamo, invece, sulla sua iniziazione alla massoneria (che potrebbe essere avvenuta a Berlino prima del 1747, quando il Bagge frequentò Federico II e da questi ricevette il titolo di ciambellano). Membro de "Les Neuf Soeurs" almeno sin dal 1778 (di conseguenza, egli potrebbe aver avuto parte, per quanto concerne gli apparati musicali nell'organizzazione delle due cerimonie in onore di Voltaire, l'una per l'iniziazione e l'altra commemorativa della scomparsa di quel grande), e nel 1783-84 figura come primo direttore dei concerti della loggia. Di fede luterana, morì a Parigi il 24 marzo 1791, avvelenato, si disse calunniosamente, dall'amante.
(Mirabeau jr death in 2nd April 1791)
I got back from meeting the Greek friend of my friend. It was very interesting, for sure. He introduced me to a drink of 'colloidal silver water' ! Something I have heard of before but have never actually seen or tasted before. Used (so it seems) by those who are in to healthy foods etc. Tasted like distilled water.
Alberto Basso's research is highly recommended by musicologists in Italy.
However, I have still not seen evidence of your description of Cocchi as a significant factor in the life and career of J.S. Bach. In fact, the evidence we have is of enemies of J.S. Bach operating from Leipzig University (which may well have included Cocchi). Again, the same is true of the circumstances behind Bach's 'Art of Fugue'. Where, once again, he was under severe criticism at Potsdam. So, yes, it's an interesting subject.
There are modern musicologists and editors of the music industry who are inventing all kinds of (fraternal) fictions about the history of music. I could name some, even in mainstream Bach research. But I will do this only if you have some evidence of J.S. Bach being influenced by Cocchi. That will be interesting, for sure.
Regards
Originally Posted by yanni
Check my last post in "your" JSBach thread and do return here for your comments when recovered.
In the meantime I'll enjoy reading Alberto Basso's research, so relevant to mine!
Anyway:
Frederick II's Bagge is Mozart's Bagge ie "Carl Friedrich Ernst von Cocceji (1725–1780)" or "Charles-Ernest Ennal de Bagge (1722 - 1791)".
Last edited by Musicology; 04-09-2010 at 01:46 PM.
My timeline may be an opportunity to address the sensitive subject of pre 1752 music history and provenance and also a reason to research the Cocceji-Cassini link more thoroughly, if truth is what "we" are after.
The family's political role in European -and not only-History has already been addressed by me elsewhere, so let's focus just on my timeline:
"I have still not seen evidence of your description of Cocchi as a significant factor in the life and career of J.S. Bach", you write:
With Samuel Cocceji being what he was in Prussia (eversince 1730's) and his specific role in "Silesia" as from 1742 (and much earlier-their relations to the polish royal family is a story yet to be written btw) this is really a surprising answer in view of JSBach's own life story and absolute dependence, like everybody else's, on Prussia's allmighty chiefchancellor.
I don't believe Gioachino Cocchi ever studied in Leipzig btw: His "entrance" as "Carl Ludwig Cocceji" was with the approval of Frederick II (whose chamberlain, military adjutant and diplomatic representative later was Carl-Ernst von Cocceji) and he was already a formed composer at the time he associated with La Barberina (1743-4), shortly before London.
Well, no matter, at least I was able to solve the puzzle of Mozart's "Bagge" (and remove him, "Bricaire de La Dixmerie" and a few others from my my "Cocchi aliases" list).
Originally Posted by yanni
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