God willing, you too may one day be blessed and discover who actually wrote Don Giovanni.
As for Ben Franklin not winning the last Olympics: With science's help any miracle may happen. The Church of England are no fools afterall to have a majority in Pfizer.
Is it true they distribute Viagras for free now, along with the Holy Communion?
Originally Posted by Musicology
Yanni,
Fortunately I am not tied up in complications and false trails. I don't chase mysterious phantoms. I don't need to. The foundations of what I have studied are solid. There is no need for me to speculate. The obfuscation and misinformation that surrounds and has always surrounded this period of history and its music is well known to me. I avoid taking dead ends.
I cannot say who actually wrote 'Don Giovanni'. But I can tell you for certain W.A. Mozart did not. Since the evidence from the rest of his career proves it beyond fair and reasonable doubt. It is a fact this music was composed by talented musicians acting together, over years, to put this opera together into the form we know today. Hidden from view, of course, by the people who managed all the rest. And that this opera (which was first published years after 1791) involved the talents of more than one composer.
I can also tell you Benjamin Franklin did not win the 200 metres at the last Olympic Games. So if anyone believes he did, the evidence shows differently.
God willing, you too may one day be blessed and discover who actually wrote Don Giovanni.
As for Ben Franklin not winning the last Olympics: With science's help any miracle may happen. The Church of England are no fools afterall to have a majority in Pfizer.
Is it true they distribute Viagras for free now, along with the Holy Communion?
Last edited by Musicology; 02-16-2010 at 07:41 AM.
How kind of you, Robert, not to pull my ear for wrongly correcting you for writing that Cocchi's last performances in London were in 1772.
I insisted instead he last appeared in 1762, remember?
We were both wrong but you were closer to the truth than I:
According to "A Biographical Dictionary of Actors, Volume 3, Cabanel to Cory by Philip H. Highfill,Kalman A. Burnim,Edward A. Langhans" Cocchi directed two works in 1765-66 (Eumene and La Clemenza di Tito) and some more during 1770-1771 (including Semiramide Riconosciuta), receiving a "most unflattering assesment" for these last by Dr Burney.
Which raises the questions:
-Why did Burney, his long time associate and trusted friend, treat him so at this highly critical turning point* in Cocchi's carreer?
and
-Was Cocchi in London in 1772 too?
and
-Why did you thus cover, through Cocchi, Dr Burney ( a "student" of composer-freemason, "Rule Britannia"-Thomas Arne of Covent Garden) ?
Will you please provide an explanation?
Cheers!
* Cocchi "disappearing" in Naples eversince while his alias "Gluck" enters the parisien scene in 1773.
I have noted what you say of Cocchi's last London performances in London. Which (according to the source you give, make it around 1771). With 'Semiramide Riconosciuta'.
You will certainly be interested to know that a work of a very similar name was for a time falsely associated with W.A. Mozart. But the plan did not work. First, you may remember the embarrasing fiasco which Leopold and Wolfgang had in 1768 in Vienna when the commission to write the opera 'La Finta Semplice' was exposed there as a fraud. And how father and son returned empty-handed to Salzburg with all of musical Vienna laughing at this nonsense. Leopold Mozart (and his associates) were determined despite this fiasco to make his son famous as an opera composer. And there is good evidence that during the 1770's (we do not know exactly when) Leopold Mozart obtained a musical score in Salzburg based on a text by Baron Gemmingen by the name of 'Semiramis' ! In H.A.O. Reichard’s publication, ‘Theaterlander’ for the year 1779 Reichard even says that ‘Mozard, Kapellmeister at Salzburg has begun writing ‘Semiramis’ - a musical drama by Baron Gemmingen’. But Reichard is clearly refering not to Wolfgang but to Leopold. A work of that same name was almost certainly in the hands of Leopold not because he was composing one but because he was a dealer in music for many years. Later issues of the same magazine by Reichard even say that work was finished. The only other mention of such as 'Semiramis' is one found in an early work on W.A. Mozart by Gerber. Who somehow decides to attribute that same lost work to Wolfgang Mozart, saying it was written by him around the time of 'Bastien and Bastienne'. In other words Gerber wanted us to believe a 'Semiramis' by W.A. Mozart existed in around 1769 . But no such commission for a ‘Semiramide’ is known and W.A. Mozart was never commissioned to write any such work at Mannheim or anywhere else. It seems almost certain a work of that name has first been associated, as said, with Leopold Mozart. In fact, many early symphonies associated with W.A. Mozart are known to have come from the music collection of Leopold Mozart in Salzburg, some of which were falsely attributed to Wolfgang only from the time of Leopold’s own death in 1787 onwards. Semiramis, of course, is an occultic opera. So that even if Leopold Mozart had a 'Semiramis' which he himself claimed to be composing the likelihood is that he received it from others. Gemmingen first involved in translating it into German. The work itself containing music of another composer. Possibly Cocchi.
As for Charles Burney, you know of course it was members of the Illuminatists who first translated the work of Charles Burney from English into German ? Indeed, Charles Burney was associated with occultic groups that were associated with Mozart's career - this able to be shown from many lines of evidence. His daughter (Fanny) was also (as you may know) in the employment of the English king and queen for several years. Charles Burney, we know, was often inventing fiction.
In fact the same Burney was closely associated with one of the tours of Mozart in Italy as a child. Although his close association with Wolfgang and Leopold is hidden. Burney was in Rome at the time when Mozart supposedly wrote, from memory, the Allegri work in Rome. Burney was undoubtedly part of an occultist network. And, in Milan, especially, Burney was close to Mozart and his father, although the family correspondence is silent on this fact.
Certainly, the musical career of Cocchi is important. It was important in England at the time of Mozart's visit there and it entirely possible a work composed by Cocchi ('Semiramide') of the late 1760's or early 1770's known as 'Semiramide' was planned to falsely become a work by 'W.A. Mozart'. A copy most probably sent to Leopold in Salzburg. Which, in later years, Gerber and others tried to credit as a work by young W.A. Mozart himself. As per their plan. But to credit W.A. Mozart with writing a Semiramide would not have been convincing to anyone who knew of events in Vienna in 1768 and would not have been believed in Austria/Germany. Cetainly not after the fiasco with 'La Finta Semplice' their. So their idea of a W.A. Mozart 'Semiramide' was finally abandoned.
This music (the 'Semiramide' in Salzburg) may indeed have based on a work by G. Cocchi. I believe that is very possible. That, at least, is my opinion. But those who wanted it to be credited to W.A. Mozart abandoned their plan, as said.
Last edited by Musicology; 02-17-2010 at 02:34 PM.
Bist du bei mir, geh' ich mit Freuden
zum Sterben und zu meiner Ruh'.
Ach, wie vergnügt wär' so mein Ende,
es drückten deine lieber Hände
mir die getreuen Augen zu!
English translation:
Be Thou with me, then I will go gladly
unto my death and to my rest.
Ah, what a pleasant end for me,
if your dear hands be the last I see,
closing shut my faithful eyes to rest!
(In the musical notebook of Bach's wife, Anna Magdelena).
Let's concentrate on music, Robert, and let's avoid your "occultists", including Dr Burney, Arne and the Royal Courts of all of Europe without exception.
Let's stick to Mozart, let's fiddle happygoluckily to his tunes, or Bach's, while the Titanic is raised from the depths your "musicologists" had reserved for Cocchi and his tremendous influence on the world of his time, his world, the Royal House of Britain included (as Dr Burney and his daughter Fanny would surely attest).
Never expected a better answer really from you (he was in London 1772 too btw) but, yes, I agree, let's limit it to music because, now Titanic has surfaced, I don't really know what to do with it, I never thought how to tow her and where to keep her.
While drawing parallels between Burney and Cocchi (and his aliases Rousseau, Gluck and Myslivecek as well) another alias of him appeared, a very swiss, very genevan, violinist-composer by the name Gaspard Fritz (1716-1783), said to have italian influences.
Gaspard tutored prince Friedrich von Sachsen Gotha Altenburg (1725-1756), March 1747 in Geneva and, according to Rousseau's "Confessions", became aquainted with Rousseau too, in Paris 1749, while under Melchior Grimm, his "other" tutor.
Friedrich's early death put his brother ErnstII Ludwig (1745-1804) to the seat of Herzog of Sachsen Gotha, a distinguished Illuminatus, Weishaupt's and Goethe's "pangermanic" protector etc etc
Coming back to Gaspard: His music, the few surviving violin-flute pieces , may be labeled as "magic" I hear.
Any coincidences with the British monarchy and the British Empire are sheer coincidence, of course, in the career of 'Gaspard Fritz'. Not forgetting the fortuitous contributions to 'Die Zauberflote' of a certain Clementi, and those of Paul and Anton Wranitsky. Whose input for Mozart's opera from the earlier 'Oberon' is still another coincidence, of course !
Last edited by Musicology; 02-18-2010 at 09:21 AM.
You forget Cocchi's (Chastellux) USA record again Robert.
As for his Magic Flute:
If he was large enough to let Mozart assume authorship of many of his works, including Don Juan, why not Clementi too?
After his relative encounter with Mozart, Clementi then moved to London for the next twenty years. He may have been another agent of Cocchi, like Mozart was.
There was noother in his time reformist enough or classical greek enough to introduce Pan and his flute to court music.
"Great Pan is dead"...and burried under Paris Opera, trust me.
Any coincidences with the British monarchy and the British Empire are sheer coincidence, of course, in the career of 'Gaspard Fritz'. Not forgetting the fortuitous contributions to 'Die Zauberflote' of a certain Clementi, and those of Paul and Anton Wranitsky. Whose input for Mozart's opera from the earlier 'Oberon' is still another coincidence, of course !
To my knowledge I've forgotten nothing. Not even the career in the USA of Lorenzo da Ponte (and that in the years before he left England for the USA). But you are very right in saying that we should be aware of events in Paris.
Last edited by Musicology; 02-18-2010 at 12:49 PM.
Use the key I gave you exclusively on music related locks, otherwise Vainamoinen will come looking for you!
Originally Posted by Musicology
Yanni,
To my knowledge I've forgotten nothing. Not even the career in the USA of Lorenzo da Ponte (and that in the years before he left England for the USA). But you are very right in saying that we should be aware of events in Paris.
Originally Posted by Musicology
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