A Brief Introduction to Chinese Classical Poetry

[JBI]

Is anybody interested in me posting more things, or should I let this thing die again?

[Jozanny]

JBI: I just don't know enough, and I know trying to learn how to read Asian poets would take enormous energy, at least without a class and a good instructor. I do not eschew self-discovery, but not here. I'd need a teacher.

[JBI]

JBI: I just don't know enough, and I know trying to learn how to read Asian poets would take enormous energy, at least without a class and a good instructor. I do not eschew self-discovery, but not here. I'd need a teacher.

Nah, just read Stephen Owen, and you may not be an expert, but you'll know enough to read translation easily.

[stlukesguild]

Chinese is certainly one of the the most difficult languages and poetic traditions in which to translate poetry as both my reading on the subject and discussions with my Chinese studio-mate have revealed. The language is simply so far from English or any Western language as to make accurate translations that preserve something of the form almost impossible. The best it seems that we may hope for is a translation that preserves the meaning as well as possible and converts it into some vestige of an English poem as preserving the form and the content appears almost an impossibility. The best translations that I have come across are those which include solid notes.

[JBI]

Chinese is certainly one of the the most difficult languages and poetic traditions in which to translate poetry as both my reading on the subject and discussions with my Chinese studio-mate have revealed. The language is simply so far from English or any Western language as to make accurate translations that preserve something of the form almost impossible. The best it seems that we may hope for is a translation that preserves the meaning as well as possible and converts it into some vestige of an English poem as preserving the form and the content appears almost an impossibility. The best translations that I have come across are those which include solid notes.

There is an excellent anthology on Chinese literature by the previously mentioned Stephen Owen which is a fantastic work of scholarship and translation (though it includes other genres as well, including anecdotes, history writing, drama and short fiction) but is now the staple translation for beginners in American classrooms. You can get a really cheap copy on American Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Anthology-Chin...4362753&sr=8-2 if you are interested; Owen's other work on the Tang is also noteworthy.

Also, a translator writing under the name Red Pine has done an interesting collection of the 300 Tang Poems with large notes, but I feel it reads better after reading Owen, since Owen deals more with genre and how metaphors emerge, whereas Red Pine isn't discussing history as much, and seems to take a lot for granted.

Of course, I also sent you a link to that book by Idema, which is a fantastic work, as it really has superb notes, including biographies, and translations from primary scholarship and historical documents.

[JBI]

There is also this collection http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/0231...&pf_rd_i=typ01 out of Columbia which generally is a fantastic publisher of and about Chinese literature, but I haven't read it, so I am going to take a look at it first for a while with my dictionary before giving it a recommendation.

Seriously though, some of you are lucky that you live in the States and benefit from cheaper books; books in Canada are sometimes twice as expensive if not more.

[wlz]

How Goes the Night?

How goes the night?
Midnight has to come.
Down in the court the torch is blazing bright;
I hear far off the throbbing of the drum.

How goes the night?
The night is not yet gone.
I hear the trumpets blowing on the height;
The torch is paling in the coming dawn.

How goes the night?
The night is past and done.
The torch is smoking in the morning light,
The dragon banner floating in the sun.

[wlz]

I have taken the above piece from the Shi King, or Book of Odes compiled I believe by Confucius c. 500 B.C. ...?

[wlz]

Any readers of the work of famous singers of Pagan Arabia 8th - 6th century: 'The Seven Golden Odes', etc... or other Ancient Arabic Poetry? How do you rate it in comparison to Ancient Chinese Poetry?

[JBI]

Any readers of the work of famous singers of Pagan Arabia 8th - 6th century: 'The Seven Golden Odes', etc... or other Ancient Arabic Poetry? How do you rate it in comparison to Ancient Chinese Poetry?

Haven't heard of those Odes, I'd be interested to look into them though if you could give me the name of a translation by any chance.

As it is though, I am not the most fond of the Book of songs, I prefer more Daoist and Buddhist elements than the sort of Confucian elements of the early book, and also prefer the Chu Ci, which I believe now are available in a translation from the Foreign Press in Beijing, though there are better translations of selections floating around, especially Owen's translation of the Li Sao in his anthology, which gives great footnotes.

[wlz]

Hi JBI, the odes which I refer to have been known by different names such as the Suspended Odes, the Hanging Odes, the Seven Golden Odes or the Seven Suspended Poems... they come from a time, (8th - 6th centuries) regarded by many as the Golden Age of Arabic Poetry, (?) I have a collection of old and worn anthologies which I bought from an antiquarian bookstore in the countryside some years back and they include several different translators. Anyway, the odes mentioned above and many other Pagan Arabian works come from:

the pre-Islamic text Mu' Allaqat, (compiled 8th century), features a poet called Imr El kais (6th century) whom I assume you'll enjoy if you can get a copy of this work, and another poet also featured is the writer Ibn Kolthum also (6th century).

I believe another interesting classic text is the Mufaddaliyat again compiled in the 8th century and features the poet Alqamah and his piece, 'His Camel', I think this piece is superb! If you wish, I will post it up here verbatim for you to read.

Some of the translators:

Lady Anne Blunt, E. Powyrs Mathers, Sir Charles Lyall, R. A. Nicholson and W. G. Palgrave.

[wlz]

I have a small collection of poems by Tu Fu. Wasn't he considered the poet of scholars? Do you like his work? I have a decent translation of his poem, 'The Emperor', which is one of my favourites.

[stlukesguild]

I am, admittedly, far more intrigued with Arabic/Persian/Islamic?Middle-Eastern culture in general than I am with that of China. This all comes down to personal preferences and as a visual artist I am far more intrigued my the visual arts of the Middle-East than I am with those of China... and this has led me as a bibliophile to a most certain fascination with the literature of the culture as well. Unfortunately, in most instances the literature... the poetry of Persia, the Arabs, the Mughals, and Arab-Andaluz are even less accessible to the English-speaking audience as a result of limited translations, than is the literature of China and Japan. There are certainly many volumes of the poetry of Hafez and Rumi to be found, but a vast majority of these are horrible, hippie-New Age spiritualism-type translations and are far from offering much in terms of serious critical commentary or translations of a high aesthetic worth. Searching around a bit on-line I came across several translations available to download (or even purchase through Amazon) of the Mu'allaqat and the Mufaddaliyat but I must honestly admit that there are a good number of books on my reading list ahead of these... including the Warner translation of the Shahnameh.

[wlz]

www.archive.org › Text Archive › Canadian Libraries. JBI, if it is of any use to you I just found a place where you can download these texts for free. I do not know what the transaltions are like. wlz.

[wlz]

stlukesguild, I agree and my interests in Arabic, Persian, Sanskrit, Egyptian and Hebrew woud be far greater than my interests in the poetry and culture of China or Japan, although I did spend many years studying the martial arts of China. Have you read Sa'Di? One of my favourite Persian poets, although I love reading the work, 'A Persian Song of Hafiz'.