All I'll state in addition to what I've already said is this: I would rather live in the U.S. than any other country in the world. Call me ethoncentric or whatever you want, I don't care. I just feel that I'm fortunate to live in this country.
All I'll state in addition to what I've already said is this: I would rather live in the U.S. than any other country in the world. Call me ethoncentric or whatever you want, I don't care. I just feel that I'm fortunate to live in this country.
No just the opposite. I am quite conscious of the wrongs done under slavery. I am bringing up what was done to those poor slaves to highlight what freedom means. This is not a rhetorical device. Those slaves labored for no pay. That's what lack of freedom means. If you don't what to hear it from me, hear it from Walter Williams, a black libertarian: http://townhall.com/columnists/Walte...ns_pro-slaveryOriginally Posted by billl
LET THERE BE LIGHT
"Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena
My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/
Yes, but it isn't the same as what a Norwegian is suffering under. Nor is it the same as what a corporate "wage slave" is suffering under either. I think there are plenty of people of all races that can see the difference.
Unfortunately, it did seem like a rhetorical device (like you were saying 70% taxation in Norway or wherever is "slavery"), but I apologize if it wasn't.
I guess that's relative. If someone were taking 70% of my earnings, you damn right I would feel like a slave. I stand by what I said and so does Walter Williams who was similarly challenged.
LET THERE BE LIGHT
"Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena
My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/
That would be annoying, certainly, especially compared to current U.S. rates of taxation. The word definitely captures the anger people can have about gov't sometimes, but it just seems too strong to me, since people aren't being bought, sold separately from other family members, forced to stay on at labor not of their choosing, given no voice in the gov't, forcefully restricted in movement, unprotected from abuses, etc. People are angry enough about taxes, I think. :P You might fire them up even more! But I've heard hippies use the word for controversial "wrongs" as well, so it maybe balances out.
Anyhow, unfortunately (rather, fortunately) this is all too political for here.
It seems to me that some people are absolute Utopians. They imagine that it's possible to have a government without taxation of any kind. The reality is that government of any kind demands some kind of taxation--be it in the form of tariffs, income tax, or whatever. That's just a simple fact. You may disagree with it, or you may not like it, but it's a fact. Here's another fact: If you take all things into account, the U.S. has one of the lowest tax rates in the world. It may be an illusion on my part, but I sense a lot of animosity toward capitalism in general, and toward America specifically.
In my previous post I supported Jermac's statement that America is "the most creative country on the face of the earth."
To expand on that, the word "creative" covers more grounds than just in the artistic sense. Yet that's how the rest of the world interprets it: they see being creative as being artistic, as in films; cathedrals...maybe a pretty little lamp post in a 14th century Oxford college...
We are way beyond that.
Americans are creative thinkers. For us it's not enough to be creative only in art. We are creative in all aspects of life. That's what makes the world go round...that's where true power lies.
Sounds like you don't know us all that well.
"But do you really, seriously, Major Scobie," Dr. Sykes asked, "believe in hell?"
"In flames and torment?""Oh, yes, I do."
"That sort of hell wouldn't worry me," Fellowes said."Perhaps not quite that. They tell us it may be a permanent sense of loss."
"Perhaps you've never lost anything of importance," Scobie said.
Well, that is true. Point well taken. But let me put it this way. If a 100% of your income was taken in taxation and the gov't decides to buy your groceries, your car, your house, and whatever you may need, then would you feel free? How would you buy the things in life that satisfy your individuality? Like the books you want to read, the type of car you really want, the house in the neighborhood that suits your fancy, the types of food that enrich your taste buds, the schools you want to attend or you want your children to attend, the doctors you want to treat you, the vacations you want to take, the TV set you want to buy, the restaurants you want to eat at, the liquors you want to sip, and so on. If all your money was taken away, how would you express your individuality? How would you buy the things in life you want to buy, not what's provided for you? Now if 70% of your earnings are taken away, then your horizons have been limited.
Absolutely!People are angry enough about taxes, I think. :P You might fire them up even more!
I have found in my dealings on the internet, that Europeans do not really understand Americans. They think they do, because they read the newspapers and hear our debates, but there's a world of difference between reading newspapers and actually living under the laws that are passed and dealing with our heritage. Despite 234 years, the heritage of our founding fathers are still heavily an influence on our lives and values.
LET THERE BE LIGHT
"Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena
My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/
I think the one problem with this Virgil is that those Scandinavian countries are democracies and their tax rates are decided on through free debate just like the American one is. How can you venture to say that Bjorn Bjornson in Norway is less free than you if he chooses, indirectly though it may be, to be part of a society where he gives 70% of his income to the government in exchange for certain services.
If I wanted to measure "freedom" I'd rather applaud the American ideological commitment to the ideal rather than discuss tax rates. I don't think any given Western European today is significantly more or less free than any given American. However, from my experiences with Europeans and Americans, I tend to find the Americans, with some exceptions in certain regions, to be a more accepting and tolerant lot. I think if you ask a recent immigrant to the US and a recent immigrant to France (of the non-white variety), and asked them how free and accepted they felt, I would bet on the US.
"If the national mental illness of the United States is megalomania, that of Canada is paranoid schizophrenia."
- Margaret Atwood
That is because the USA thinks of itself as "a nation of immigrants" from all over the world. I'm not sure how true that is. Until the late 19th century the USA was essentially northern European in culture and character (apart from indiginous Indians and freed African slaves). I know there were other ethnic groups- Chinese for example. But if you take the Civil war as an example. That was a war fought by people of northern European ancestry.
People in the West: in North America, Europe and Australasia have really been brainwashed into thinking multiculturalism is a good thing- no debate, it's good, if you disagree you're a Nazi. The Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, Russians etc are much more skeptical and hostile to this idea and I think they will be stronger for it in the coming decades. Multiculturalism causes massive tensions and undermines national identity. There are differences between people. It's a simple fact. Someone from an African slum is going to have an entirely different attitude towards women, animals, the right to privacy, corruption and so on. We pretend otherwise because the greatest sin today is racism- the 'r' word. Well, I'm ethnically a northern European. I feel more comfortable living around other northern Europeans. Sorry if that offends, but that is the way I feel. I don't wish anyone any harm, I don't want to hurt anyone and I don't think I'm superior but I don't want a multicultural, multi-ethnic West.
WICKES, if you want to have any influence in a multi-cultural world (ie. if you want to do business or use the internet) then the more practice with multicultural interaction, the better, I think. There are Koreans, Chinese, Russians, etc. here in the U.S., and they or their children are at least as American as they are representative of their own countries. You are right to a certain degree about separation and such being a challenge and distraction, but it is a world economy now. I think the more single-minded cultures are more apt to be blind-sided by the complexities that face us as we spend more and more time encountering "others." It is more comfortable to avoid the difficulties, of course, but perhaps only in the short run.
You don't think it verges a bit on hypocrisy to criticize the USA for being intolerant of homosexuals and atheist while maintaining that Europeans are "more free" while being more xenophobic and intolerant of some sections of their immigrant population. I didn't think we were talking about which societies were more unified and culturally monolithic, but rather about which was more free.
"If the national mental illness of the United States is megalomania, that of Canada is paranoid schizophrenia."
- Margaret Atwood
A lot of people feel that the world is being ruined by free market capitalism: by greedy, vulgar, selfish, materialism. Who wants a McDonalds in Venice or Nepal? Who wants to see the rainforest disappear or the Kenyan bush turned into a tourist spot, ringed by fences and hotels? Many associate this vulgarity with Americans. The general stereotype of an American in Europe, Australia and Canada is of a fat, ignorant, nationalistic, vulgar person with no class. Capitalism and America are viewed as synonymous, just as Judaism was linked to Communism. I know this is unfair. The whole 60s counter culture/ hippie thing came from the U.S. The problem is, just as many in the west (including the USA) are waking up to the dangers of free market Capitalism (environmental destruction, all powerful corporations etc) Asia and the third world are embracing it.
I'm not anti America or Americans (my favourite University lecturer was an American). What infuriates the rest of the world are the sort of things Jermac said : "The USA is the most free, the most liberal, the most...". Americans still seem to think the USA is special. It is true that (atm) you are the only superpower, but that is only because of the huge size of the USA, its huge population and its head start in industrialisation. Soon China and India will challenge this dominance. So, to a lesser extent, will the E.U and Russia.
Americans assume the USA is the place everyone wishes they could live. Perhaps that was true in 1940, but definitely not today. The simple fact is that many countries are just as free, just as wealthy, just as modern. This is not to say the USA isn't free and modern, just that it isn't unique. If I were to emigrate these would be my choices, in order:
1. France (better healthcare, less violent crime, older and more beautiful towns and cities)
2. Italy
3. Switzerland
4. Australia
5. New Zealand
6. Spain or Portugal
All are smart, modern, democratic and free. The standard of living is just as high, there is less violent gun crime, less ethnic tension and better health care and education. There is also more room.
7. USA (though I'd choose London over any American city).
Alongside the USA I'd put the UK, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Ireland, Germany, Austria, Finland...maybe even south Korea and Japan.
Most countries and nations in the world are generally homogeneous, that is, they are composed in the main of one certain ethnic or racial group. Of course every country has its minorities. But most countries have an overwhelming population of a certain race that in a large sense defines that country. Take Japan for example, or China, or Iran, or Mexico, or Egypt. I could go and on. The U.S. is the most multi-cultural country in the world. I'm not going to address the things you stated other than to say that I disagree with most of them. To me, the U.S. is special and unique in a number of ways.
I think Brazil is as multi cultural as the USA. Personally I am very suspicious of the great multicultural experiment that is being imposed on the West. You go to somewhere like London and the indiginous, northern European Brits are being pushed out by immigrants from all over the place. There is a lot of brainwashing going on. The media/ movies etc present an entirely positive view of multiculturalism. We never get shown the down side. There is a myth that the USA was built by immigrants from all over the world. It's just not true. The Founding Fathers were essentially British emigrants and the USA was fundamentally northern European in character and culture up until the end of the 19th century.The U.S. is the most multi-cultural country in the world.
.But loads of countries are 'unique' and 'special'. No two countries are the same. Americans tend to identify themselves as a 'free people', and the USA as the 'land of the free', the 'land of opportunity'. As if everyone else in the world is a slave living under dictatorship. All the rights and opportunities enjoyed by an American are enjoyed by the average Australian, New Zealander, Brit, Canadian, Frenchman, Swiss, Swede, Dane, Dutchman, Irishman etc etc... You can stand in the middle of London and shout "the Queen is a ***** who should be shot" and nothing would happen to you. If you are born into poverty in France or Sweden or Ireland you will have access to free education and the opportunity to better yourself, just as in the USA. You will probably get better healthcare, better education and be less likely to experience gun crime as well.To me, the U.S. is special and unique in a number of ways.
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