The Pros and Cons of Celibacy

[Shalot]

I just wanted to reply to a couple of Leann's points:

1. I think there are a lot more than 4 strains of HPV...there's quite a few - possibly 100. Some cause cervical cancer and these are the high-risk strains and some cause warts and those are the low-risk strains. THere is a vaccine available that can protect against 4 of those strains that cause warts and cancer.

2. You could get an STD if you're celibate. Suppose someone has a cold sore on his mouth. This is HSV - Herpes Simplex Virus and it's his first outbreak. Say he just contracted the virus so his body hasn't had a chance to build up any immunity. Then suppose that person is kind of a careless slob and is laying in bed, drinking chocolate milk and watching TV. Suppose he takes a slurp of milk, dribbles a bit of it out of his mouth and onto his big, red, aching, oozing, cold sore. He takes his fingers and wipes at the chocolate milk, touching the big, red, aching, oozing cold sore at the same time. And then his next move is to scratch his member with those same fingers. HSV is spread through skin-to-skin contact and what has just happened is autoinoculation.

3. It's a big mean world and I can see how you feel the way you feel. Life is hard and we're all here to learn life lessons so that our souls can progress. Maybe we don't have just one life. The Western way of thinking makes these lessons so hard.

[Leannain]

That's a lot to respond to so i'll just make this simple because i can't really be bothered, if i'm honest, to get in to a debate about it.


Sounds like you're bitter. I mean, you're making a very big generalization about women. A big one. I'm a woman and i don't apply to most of what you have just said.

I find the way you talk about marriage quite interesting. I don't know about anyone else and i can't speak for anybody else but i personally, am not a person of convenience. I know that when i marry, it'll be out of love. Sure, people fall out of love, and when that happens, relationships end.. marriage, ends. But that's life i guess. It depends on the person. Simple minded people who live life like it's a clock - hit an age, freak out, and begin to tick off a list.. marriage, babies..retirement. I'm only 18 but I know for a fact I won't live my life like that. I'm rambling but meh,

it kind of sounds like you're being a downer about natural.. exciting things in life. You've had your bad experiences, yeah, but i suppose you've just met the wrong kind of people for YOU

What did I say? Shaming language. Sentences meant to make the male promptly apologize and back peddle into pleasing the woman. "You are jaded."

"You are bitter."

"You can't get laid."

"you are a closeted gay."

"you live with momma."


"you can't get a job."


These are typical shaming tactics women use to make the man go back to the rest of pack. You don't seem to have read what I wrote, or at least you avoided the meaning of the sentences. You cannot shame me. I've had women shame me because I have the freedom to stay 10 hours in a row up all night playing video games when i want, but want to date me.

What gives? They want my resources.

I've had women shame me for going to clubs and not asking them out.

What gives?

They wanted to have fun with me.

A woman, a bitter woman at that, will shame you, emotionally manipulate you(remember that big bully from 5th grade?) well, a woman like this, can't make a man do what she wants by physical power so she resorts to emotional manipulation. Quite hard to manipulate the emotions of the Prince of Emotions. I live and breath emotion. But it's funny nonetheless.

Notice the "I can't be bothered."

meaning ,she doesn't have any logical arguments with which attack what I just said on my above post so, because she just has to have the last word, she'll resort to shaming language by going again, on the "you are bitter", "you are jaded" and likewise.

It's quite funny, actually. Women complain that I either don't want anything to do with them or that I only want to have fun with them. When I point out why I only want to have fun with them or why I don't even want to have anything to do with them, they go silent.

I thought women like this would've have evolved their shaming arsenal by now. Men have evolved. From being the providers, to being jerks to marriage strike, to being indifferent to women and yes, lady, many males are becoming like that.

And guys, Church girls/women? Don't even go there - they're the freakiest of the lot.

More shaming language, please? I feel like a good laugh .


By the way: great post by Shalot. Studies have show the existence of HPV on the hair of people. You can basically catch herpes if the person who has it went to the bathroom, didn't wash his hands and gave you a hand shake.

Sex is indeed very dangerous and with so many women having sex wild to satisfy their sexual urges, to be cool, to rival with their female friends, to get male attention, or to get the Brad Pitt of the zone, you are up for a pretty miserable time. Sad, right? Tough luck buddy, life is hard but think of Africa. It's much, much harder.

Ahaha, I confess: I'm so used to this kind of woman that I didn't bother to read all of her post but my eye caught the last lines of "You haven't just met the right woman for YOU".

Ahaha, you just haven't find the right bullet. A lot, a lot of women will pretend to be one thing. Until they have what they have; marriage; a serious relationship; children; living together. When they have what they want, say bye bye to what you loved in her. Second, there is no such thing as the right person. "The One".

That is a personal illusion most humans create because they fear "ending up alone". For this reason, they'll go from relationship to relationship, trying to find that one person who'll make everything fine.


It's not that I am bitter - I am smart. I am evolved. I observe. I watch other males do the mistakes. I avoid them. And guys, the whole shaming tactic of "you just haven't found the right woman" since most marriages end, and most relationships of all sort(romantically) end, by the end of women, and the fact that most men loose everything they have, it's pretty damn logic to conclude that there are no "right person for you", or in another way, most women aren't relationship material. Now you know why women want you to keep going! Chase after them! give them male attention! make them feel special!

Nah, I ain't for that.

Virgins aren't that much better either. I've dated a true virgin, from a proper, traditional family and she was just the same as all the other females. I've had one bad experience, indeed, you got that right: watching my father work for no logical reason. That was one of the saviors of my life.

Preach on sister. I've had hardcore feminists, much older than you, much more versed in the art of shaming males, try their wits on me: They leave quite exasperated and I? Quite amused. God, how I love to be a young male, rich and full of potential that will never be hostage to women.

Don't worry about me. I'm the most happy male I have ever met. While other males are worrying about making their wives/girlfriends happy, I'm reading 2 books in a row. While men are trying to get their next fix of sex; I'm backpacking to Sweden because I have the funds for it and the time. While men are worried about losing their job; Why do I care? I'm rich. While other men have to worry about their wives leaving them, taking their money and house etc, I'm sipping a soda, thinking of the way the colour blue makes me feel..

While other males are worried about getting cheated on or not, I'm revising the fond memories I have of my fun times.

Yes, I sure am missing a lot, ain't I ? This life can be yours too, guys. And if society falls because there are no more drones, er I mean, tax payers?

Who cares? Do you think Lord Byron cared about anything or anyone? Who lived the LIFE, though?

ohh, how did I miss this pearl?

yeah, feelings end, relationships end, marriage end that is life."

Spoken like the true member of the most privileged class of all: women. Pretty easy to say that, ain't it, when it's not you who risks losing the house, the income, the children(who gets the children gets the house)having your ex- wife or ex- girlfriend live in with her next husband/boyfriend in the house you bought or built for her/family - yep, go check an attorney. I live with one(daddy). The laws are all stacked against men; benefiting women to the hilt. That is why women want so much to get married. To get married. Not to stay married. There are so many, so many risks and problems a man goes through by having a romantic relationship with a woman while a woman, risks almost nothing.

What does she risk? Getting pregnant and the guy flee? Many, many guys are so desperate for female attention that they will marry a single mother. The state will also help out the single mom. I could fill this forum with tons of negative stuff happening to men but who cares, there are enough males silly enough to fall for the trap and if they want to fall, so do it. That is the nature of life. That is the nature of the male of the mantis. After he mates, the female bites off the head of the male.

ahahahaha. And notice how she subtly attacked me with the "you can't get laid" tactic?

"you seem to lack something" something like that.

Yeah guys, if you guys aren't getting laid, to women you are a loser. Now, if women - and they believe this - have several sexual partners, they'll downplay the true number. Do you want to interact with beings like that?

[Zee.]

Meh look, okay, if you want to live your life like that.. so be it.

That's not the path i'm choosing to take. Don't generalize women they way you do though, it's quite degrading and very narrowminded.


Marriages? yeah, they can end. Romance? that too, can end. Not always, as you say, but it can, yes. EVERYTHING ENDS. Absolutely everything, comes to an end. Who said things were meant to last? it's the experience of it which counts, what existed, what you took from it - just because it ends doesn't make it illegitimate, or a mistake, or a regret.

You say you're "smart" well, you sound bitter to me, you sound like you've isolated yourself.
It's almost as though you're arguing that love does not exist and that relationships should be avoided. It's very silly..


Men were made for women, and women.. were made for men. We fall in love. We fall out of love. We experience. It's life.

[Leannain]

Meh look, okay, if you want to live your life like that.. so be it.

That's not the path i'm choosing to take. Don't generalize women they way you do though, it's quite degrading and very narrowminded.


Marriages? yeah, they can end. Romance? that too, can end. Not always, as you say, but it can, yes. EVERYTHING ENDS. Absolutely everything, comes to an end. Who said things were meant to last? it's the experience of it which counts, what existed, what you took from it - just because it ends doesn't make it illegitimate, or a mistake, or a regret.

You say you're "smart" well, you sound bitter to me, you sound like you've isolated yourself.
It's almost as though you're arguing that love does not exist and that relationships should be avoided. It's very silly..


Men were made for women, and women.. were made for men. We fall in love. We fall out of love. We experience. It's life.

It seems you think I care about your life or how you are. Another funny thing is that all women will say "they are not like that"

Yep, the woman who is going to stab you in the back is going to warn you.

Second, yeah, not all women are like that. Just most. Since most males are looking for a mate, most males are going to fight to the end for the jewels and those jewels are usually already married in their 20's, to older guys(with the financial resources to have a family) so guys in their 20's are done for.

They'll have to wait for the next "crop".

Second, you don't seem capable of grasping what i write, do you? All that you write is "yes, marriage ends, but emotions this and that."

Do you understand that life is not about emotions but about consequences? the positives and negatives and what to do to get the positives and deny the negatives? Can you comprehend that? Women like you are the most prone to fall for guys like me; guys who are either good with words, emotions or bad boys.

Problem is, most women are like you so..

Look. I'll put this into simple words.

Love. Good Feeling. Getting divorced. Good for Women. Bad for Men. Why? Because women take everything. It doesn't. Matter. If she was pleasant. The sex was good. The man still ends shafted. Meaning. He's risking bankrupt. Living in the streets.

It's easy. To speak of. Experiences. And that. Everything Ends. That what matters. Is the experience. When you aren't the one. Paying for the wedding ring. Paying for the wedding. Living a few years of relatively happiness. But ending it when the woman. Gets bored. The emotions end. She finds another guy. She cheats on him(and yes, guys also cheat).

It's easy. To want to get married. When. YOU. Have nothing. to waste. Men. On the other hand. Can't afford. That.

here we go again. Do you want me to arrange you a meeting with divorced men?(not the ones who cheated and were bad partners).

Do you want to know about the suicide percentages of the divorced male? The financial consequences of divorces? The emotional backlash of losing the child?

The man very rarely gets the kid. Do you want to know how much pain a man feels when he doesn't see his child? 2 times a month? is that all? Do you know how it feels when men see their kids being raised by other males?

And you continue with the bitter "argument?"

Look, if a rattle snake bites me , I'll probably die. But if I don't die, I'll avoid the rattle snake next time.

When it comes to me, I wasn't bitten: I learned from seeing and hearing and noticing other bitten men.

Do you understand that? Are you capable?

Men are made to be glorious. Do you understand that? Do you understand the quality of a van Gogh? of a Neil Armstrong? Any man can be like them, if they free themselves from the chains of society i,e; children and women.

Do I sound drastic? You can bet your pink horse. Will I achieve my goals? You can bet two pink horses.

Men aren't made for women, and women aren't made for men. Marriage has always been a bad contract for men. Love is about rising above nature; achieving power beyond imagination by doing something great, by making yourself great.

Women, most women will just tie down the man and not let him live up to his potential; work like a horse, provide for your family, get divorced; die.

That is the nature of life. I am above Life.

I'm not arguing that love doesn't exist. How can I argue what is a fact? love has been proven to be nothing more than a physical/chemical reaction to proper stimulation. I could make you fall in love. I can make the woman next door fall in love. How? because I understand the principles of "love".

Christ sake; when relationships chain you, yes; don't do them. But you have to understand that all that I'm writing is not meant for you. You are a woman. You live and dream about love and marriage and children, to you, all doors are open. You are a member of the most privileged sect of the human race: women.

What you are doing is projecting. You're making it seem like what you love, like and want is the exact same thing I, a man, would want.

And frankly, with this high school mentality(fantasy lalala love land, love is the most important, relationships are the most important blablabla) you are making my case even stronger.

Another. Since most women can't be away from love and relationships, they are spending their teens and 20's going from relationship to relationship because the love ends, or they find someone they find more attractive or "love" more.

At the same time, they are concentrating on their career. While some men, some very smart men, have opted out of the game. Instead of chasing women, dating them, having sex with them, whatever, they are becoming better students, better workers, making themselves more physically attractive, emotionally ,intellect, the works.

Then, when women reach a certain age (more than less is 30) they are ready to settle down. They'll go for the more stable, career minded males(because the other guys are still partying) but ahaha, things turn because when they go for them, the stable, financially secure males, those same males, go for the younger (18 - 22) females to mate with leaving the 30's females high and dry.

Because most(note most: there are some decent women out there) women are living their life through stages(partying from 15 to 30) they have never been without a boyfriend while the financially stable fella has never had a relationship. Who now has the power? See, you, who is always speaking of life, should know that women are the gatekeepers. Women choose the mates.

But, by letting emotions run amok, instead of doing the little trick their grand mothers did(marrying young), they end up without a partner and without a son.

What a sight it is to see a woman whine and complain that she can't find a mate "there are no good men left."

Sure there are but, whereas to women financial security is what attracts them in a lifelong mate, youth and fertility in a woman is what a man is looking for; not her education or life experience.

Either way, you prove my point time and time again.

For the record: you are right that I have isolated myself. Why have I done so?

I've had my share of women. I've filled my cup of sexual interest in women in a way. After the 5th female, sex turns out to be the same. Furthermore, as I am a far, far more emotional being than you, I can actually satisfy my own emotional needs.

The need, the "completeness" a woman could play and have in my life is devoid of significance. Like a vegetarian eats meat because he or she doesn't like meat or doesn't need meat, I do the same.

I "isolate" myself(that means, I don't flatter women's ego by chasing them, I don't satisfy women's sexual lust by having sex with them and I don't satisfy their need for security by having a relationship with them).

What you want and what other women want from me is to stay a teenager forever. A teenager cares for his hormones and the still "existent" preconception of "love", turning me into a deviant machine of lust and desire. My friends, the guys who are doing what you want me to do, can't go one day without sex. Many of them have to have a girlfriend at all times. What in Heaven's name am I? A man? or an animal? Why should I fall for the apple when I can reach for the stars?

A great man once said: "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."

So sue me, for having eyes.

There is no need to tell me of my smartness. I am very aware. It just saddens me a bit that I am trying to have a conversation with you, with facts, scenarios that are reals while you just trow at me silly reasons to be in a relationship and the fallacy that everything ends but that shouldn't keep me from having a relationship because men and women are meant to be one.

Right. Will God also smitten me if I say his name in vain?

[Shalot]

Funny...I've seen a lot women get shafted as well. Women with 3 kids and the deadbeat dad who didn't pay child support. Yeah yeah there are laws that require men to pay their child support, blah blah blah. The same dads that can't afford to stick around can't manage to make all their child support payments either...

Douchbags come in both male and female form. Just a thought.

Children are punishment for having sex :-D

[Zee.]

Leannain

What bothers me about what you're saying is that you are speaking for more than yourself. You can only speak on your experiences, not mine and not others.
Your experiences with women and 'life' as you put it, are your own, but they do not make them universal.

Men hurt women just the same.

This debate is getting really silly.


I don't know why you keep associating love with marriage by the way.
My parents aren't married and they are very much in love.

I know couples that have been together since they were 14/15 and are now in their 80's. Tell me that isn't love.

[Leannain]

Leannain

What bothers me about what you're saying is that you are speaking for more than yourself. You can only speak on your experiences, not mine and not others.
Your experiences with women and 'life' as you put it, are your own, but they do not make them universal.

Men hurt women just the same.

This debate is getting really silly.


I don't know why you keep associating love with marriage by the way.
My parents aren't married and they are very much in love.

I know couples that have been together since they were 14/15 and are now in their 80's. Tell me that isn't love.

For the love of God? I said, that you are a member of the King "race": women. I speak not for you because, like I said, women have far more positives when it comes to relationships than men have. Get it? I speak for the guys who are shafted. I speak for the guys my father has to deal with (and I in the same fashion), when they reach his office wanting to keep a little percent of their money, of their house, their children whatever.

I speak from what I see, from the people I interact with. The situations my friends and my family lives through. I speak from the Laws. One only has to look at the draconian laws, geared to prejudice men; in England, there's a new law that states that if a man has his own house but has a child with a woman, the woman gets the house.

Have you ever heard the expression that power corrupts, absolute power corrupts completely?

With so many incentives and the no -fault laws(and don't try to twist this with "My parents are very happy together and they aren't married."

For your information, you only need to live a few years(in Australia: 6 months)together, for the govt. think of you as married, treat you as married, and give to you all the benefits when separation happens.


I'll explain this to you. Do you know why so many people want to become lawyers? because Divorce attorneys earn fortunes. Do you know why the state wants gay people to get married? So when they get divorced, the state gets a piece of the money. Why do you think the state has such an interest in having people married? Why do you think the state has made common law a regular "ending" for the couple that lives together? What do you think makes the world go round and round?

MONEY. Not love.

Good for your parents. Sadly, your parents are from a different generation. Generations behave differently. Remember the 50's? Rock and roll? Free love?

Go back a few dozens of years and you'll see the differences also.

A friend of mine bought a house. Payed fully for it. His girlfriend moved in. After three years, they moved on(didn't marry) but for the state, that was a piece of a cake it wouldn't miss out: he lost the house.

No thanks. i very much enjoy the house my father offered me, the house I was raised in.


"Funny...I've seen a lot women get shafted as well. Women with 3 kids and the deadbeat dad who didn't pay child support. Yeah yeah there are laws that require men to pay their child support, blah blah blah. The same dads that can't afford to stick around can't manage to make all their child support payments either...

Douchbags come in both male and female form. Just a thought.

Children are punishment for having sex :-D



That happens when the genders don't think with their head but with their emotions. The world is not an Elisabeth Browning and a Robert Browning. Those women - many of those fall for the charmer, the player, the pick up artist, the Casanova. Basically, the more charming a man is, the more fickle he is.

Due to his easy way with women, he doesn't exactly see a point on settling down. Like Bill Gates keeps on making money because he's good at making money, the charmers, the guys women meddle with(great providers of sexual stimulation etc) are the same guys the fathers of long ago had a shotgun waiting if they dared touch their little girl.

Look at the quantity of women going after the thug. Or the bad boy. Look, Thugs are exciting because they live dangerous lives; you never know if you are going to see him alive next time you visit him.

Bad boys, well, we just don't give a damn about anything or anyone; we're perpetual James Deans - knowing that women fall for that guy, we either "pontificate" him or we just don't care; we are the real deal.

Those two groups of men are dangerous. For example: the thug, well you can end up dead. The bad boy, you end with your heart broken and possibly one or two stds.

The third group is the Charmer; the Shakespeare. He'll make you fall in love with him, by using poetry, appealing to your sensitive side, by being that guy women claim to want(sensitive, calm, peaceful, attentive) etc, but he'll soon grow weary of you and move on.

I've got one female by being the natural bad boy(I simply don't give a damn about anyone but me) and another one, with poetry. I gotta stop writing poetry for women, though, imagine that, when I become famous, they can earn much money with them .

If women avoid these groups of men, they are home free. It's quite easy to discern who is who, to which group a man belongs to.

The thug - he's wearing rappers cloths, being all aggressive to his friends etc. The thug will grope you, will go at you like are his property. He doesn't respect you but his prism of attractiveness is his assertiveness. He goes after what he wants.

The Bad boy - Well, I simply just don't give a damn. They say I look far better without a beard but because I don't care, about what they want or like or need, I go months without shaving my beard.

I've also gone months without washing my hair or changing my clothes - I have oily hair.

I've done things like being talking to a woman, turn my back to her, go talk to someone else or get up, go away and never talk to her again. A fine and beautiful example of the bad boy mentality is an experience I went through 4 months ago. A woman, a bad girl, was playing hard to get.(while trying to control my interaction with women. I LOVE double standards.)

What did I do? I kicked her out of my friends car, never spoke to her again. 4 months have passed by, she sent me a message using the phone of a friend(because I blocked her number).

That is the essence of the bad boy. We will provide the drama that many women look for(what do you think women watch soap operas for? Women are the main consumers of shows like Dr. Phill and Oprah. Why? because of the drama), we'll give you the time of your life but don't trust us with your "feelings" or hopes for a "relationship" we just don't give a damn. If we score with women, if we don't.

I've gone years without kissing a woman, not wanting to be bothered with women. However, there have been times I spent a lot of time with women. I'm unstable because I am a pool of endless emotions; emotions that find it's way onto me, never outside.

The charmer(romantic) - I love this personality.

The charmer is the Casanova of males. He'll flood you with so many transformations of your diary...a diary of life, can you give up everything? you will, the loss of your innocence is adamant when interacting with a charmer.

He'll buy you roses, carve your name onto the wood of trees, with your hands put together on top of his chest. He'll write songs for you, poems might owe their existence to you. He'll treat you really good. Really romantically. He will take you out for dinner, make you feel like a Princess, take care of you - never let anything you want run from you. He'll be your Prince Charming.

How do you identify the charmer? Go to a bookstore. Find out what he's reading. if he's reading Nicolas Sparks, John Keats, Pessoa, Balzac, Tolstoy; you have both a thinker and an emotional man: a charmer!

He probably looks more feminine than masculine. Slight built, low weight, maybe short, with thick lips, big eyes, long eyelashes etc.

The problem of the Charmer? extremely fickle... those emotions go from right to left, many times they end. And beauty! Let me tell you about beauty! The Charmer falls in love with beauty every time he sees it. If you live in a Country full of beautiful women, you are up for a treat.

I'm nothing of the thug, most of the bad boy and most of the charmer. Hm, in a way, I'm a god damn freak of nature .

If women want a steady relationship, with a guy who won't shaft her: DO NOT fall for one of these guys. I've given you the manual on how to identify each type and avoid him. I've also tried to help the girlfriends of my friends(when they ask me why their guy is a bad boy or a charmer...er) I explain but they return to the fray.

I believe these groups are addictive. Once a woman tastes one of them, she can't go back. Shrugs.

My father, my father lies on the 4th group. The group that enabled society to come to live. My father's group. He's 52 year old, handsome male(in a masculine way: 6'1' with proper weight, mustache) etc.

Those males are the males women ought to marry. They are reliable, emotionally stable and will work like a horse to provide for their family. Yes, most women now earn their own money but when they want to marry they'll want a provider; that is why you find them looking for someone with a higher income.

Men and women get shafted because they want. Me? All i want is fun, a lifetime of fun. I'm too much dead and gone from the ordinary world to worry myself about the certainties of adult "manhood" . Thankfully, my fickle and emotional nature saves me from the mistakes the 4th group makes, ahaha.

Life is sweet.

Children. Yeah, I agree. That's why when I can do it , I'm going to get a vasectomy done(have to wait until I'm 35 or something). As for the 5th group of males, the "Pick - up Artist", I can't relate. I've never met one. Only heard of them. It seems, though, that their attractiveness lies in making a woman feel bad about herself, which in turn makes the woman want to prove her value to the male by having sex with him.

Sounds odd to me. just show you are either an emotional man or a masculine man and it's a sealed "deal."


Did you know that by law, if a man doesn't pay alimony, he goes to jail? You miss one payment: jail for you!

it's true that there are many guys who are deadbeats but who told women to have sex with them? A woman can always reject sex. Women are the gatekeepers. Most women, regardless of their beauty, have many guys hitting on them. On a periodical basis. A woman should by then be aware of the intentions of the male and proceed accordingly. It's my fault if I jump into acid but you can't blame me if I avoid the acid.

And this kind of mentality will only let you fall for one of the three groups of males you find attractive at this stage in your life:

"I know couples that have been together since they were 14/15 and are now in their 80's. Tell me that isn't love."


My great grandfather stayed with his wife all of his Life. She married him when she was 22 and he was 16. She used to beat him up(a 6'3' man, dock worker), treat him awfully, would steal all of his money to give to her Priest. The father of my father, got married to my grandma when he was 21 and she was 19 - they met when she was 14. My grandpa would spend all day working, away from his wife, because she would nag and bother him.

The father of my mother married my grandma when he was 15. She was so annoying, so demanding and naggy. He ended up becoming a VERY successful auto - mechanic. How do you think my family became rich? By focusing on creating foundations;work. Affection and attention to women, well, at a certain age, men stop being teenagers and worry about more important things. Like conquer the world of physical, mental and emotional.

And just because you know of couples who are still together. It doesn't mean that that's the norm. Gerard Butler looks like a greek god. Will I look like a Greek god if I do his work out?

Einstein turned out to be a genius, while in school, everyone thought of him as dumb. Does that mean that every single guy who is bad in math will become the next Einstein?

You hope. I live. See, if you choose to live your life waiting for the perfect everything; love, husband, child - you end up sad. You depend on someone else to provide the means to become truly independent and powerful.

I, by not having emotional ties, not letting myself get trapped by this world(marriage, serious relationship etc), have become the western version of Buddha. I can literally live without any social contact - and live happily. Or, I can choose to indulge in whatever without getting addicted. My happiness, comes from within. Thus, I am always, always happy, never susceptible to darkness or sorrow.

my confidence, my arrogance, my eternal and infinite love for myself, are the Jesus Christ's of my redemption. They propelled me from mortality to Immortality.

Hard? at the start,if you are not a natural, yes. Worth it? For sure!

I forgot to mention that the body type of the thug is usually that of a brick house and the body type of the bad boy falls between 6 feet tall and 6'5'.

[Virgil]

This debate is getting really silly.

Getting silly? This discussion was silly from the beginning and kept going down hill.

[The Atheist]

Wow!

This thread does have its twists and turns.

Leannin - I bet I set a record for length of post here, so bear with me:

Tell that to the many poor fellas who ended up victims of what I'm talking about.

Pah. try telling it to the women in their teens, twenties, thirties and 40s whose lives I screwed up!

Just one case: I had one 33 year old girlfriend leave her husband and three kids because she mistakenly thought I was going to become her new husband.

Man, I would've beaten Usain Bolt.

Of course, I didn't bother letting her know that I wasn't her soulmate, I just started having sex with one of her competitors.

I'm not saying that to boast. I actually don't think my past sex life is all that honourable or sensible, but it does give me pretty good evidence that both sexes can be revolting.

There's a really, really old saying, which is effective from an evolutionary standpoint as well: "All's fair in Love & War." Given our prediliction for sex and relationships, anything which works leaving only emotional scars can actually be considered "fair".

Falling in love? I think most of us here have let go of the High School mentality.

Damn.

I'm 50 and I fall in love most days. Christ, why is it I never grew up?

When I was younger(these days, I lack the desire to interact with them), I would see these same women interact with me with fun in their mind. Not "love." I was aggressive(still I am), didn't care about anything at all, and I was angry at the world.

Anger is a terrible emotion. It's proven beyond any reasonable doubt that a state of constant anger is actuall really bloody bad for your health.

It's sounds to me as though you have a hell of it as well!

I think you need to change your "was" to "am" in the part about being angry at the world.

Those factors triggered a woman's attraction to me.

You sure it was that?

Lots of things trigger women's attention, and it isn't always what you think.

Does this sound "romantic"? No. No one said life was meant to be romantic. This is fact. have you ever dated a woman who is in "settling" down mode? I have.

Her questions are around this: "Do you have a job?" "what do you think you are going to be doing in 5 years?" "Do you have your own house?" "Do you want children?"

Some have tried to make me not use a condom. others have tried to fish the condom out of the bin. Funny thing is, I don't, when I have sex, ever get the clothes off . I literally do the deed dressed so I can snatch the condom and store it somewhere safe. My parents raised no fool. Sometimes I follow the woman to the bathroom and I find her going through the trash, mad that she can't find the condom. That's funny!

See, this is all just child's play.

I think you should be blaming yourself as much as the women.

Have you heard of saying "no"? Even in my wildest days, I used to turn plenty down. Why would you get to the stage of having sex with a woman who's treated the exercise like a job interview? Didn't you spot any of the warning signs that you, who were seeking casual sex, were probably dating the wrong woman?

I have several friends who had vasectomies done and keep quiet.

And this is recommended as honest behaviour?

In what way is this kind of stuff not just as reprehensible as the woman who tries to cheat one into being a father? You have a nice set of double standards bubbling away here...

I've lost count of how many times they've come to me laughing, telling me that they've shown the sperm count report to them; the women denied being at fault. The baby is born, my friends demand an ADN test: The woman disappears.

I don't believe this. I flat out just disbelieve it.

I accept you might know of a case, or maybe even two, where a man has been accused of paternity only to produce evidence of a successful vasectomy. But :lost count"? Nope. I don't buy a bar of it, sorry.

Now I'm worried about fabrication instead of double standards.

These 30 year old women, when they realize I'm not going to spend money on them, that I am only interested in having fun(because I don't want to spend my life working soul - destroying jobs to support a family or worse, have my house(a full paid 4 room house) and alimony, they move on to other guys.

"When they realise". Not, "when I tell them".

I take that as a confirmation that you are just as dishonest in your relationships as these women you're accusing of duplicity.

It's war alright - the age old Battle of the Sexes, round 165342789.

I'm not picking on anyone, lass. This whole feminized world that makes men bend over to please and support women is what annoys me. Saddens me as well.

Can I call you "lad" to go with your "lass" to Limajean?

What planet are you from again?

On earth, we have had a thing which I'll broadly refer to as "The Women's Movement" for just over the past century. Yes, it's only existed for 100 or so years.

For the previous 99,900 years, women had no rights, so they finally decided they should have equal rights with men and started a movement to do something about it. So far, it's been fairly successful, thanks in part to magical places like New Zealand which showed the world that letting women vote would not be the end of civilisation.

Some time after that, most of human society has passed laws that a man may not now assault his wife or rape her, so they have come a fair way in 100 years.

Suggesting that they run the show is just silliness. It couldn't even qualify as rhetoric.

Love. Marriage. Feminine social constructions to bind men to women.

The really bizarre part is, the materialist in me wants to just give you a good shake.

Marriage was an institution created by men to control women.

At least get your facts right!

One of the things that women's movement I was just mentioning di, was to enable women to get a divorce. Who'd have thought that? That women would be the ones seeking a way to end marriages?

I guess this must seem all a little "far out" to you, but I assure you it's true!

Hormones and emotions are easy to create. I can create them inside a woman by being sweet, indifferent, caring, a jerk; by writing poetry, by picking her up, by hugging her.

And no doubt they can create them in you; inadequacy, anger...

Love is nothing more than the reaction of an action. And emotions are temporary while problems and consequences are forever.

This just shows a complete lack of understanding of what "love" actually is.

Lots of people confuse lust and love - it's an easy mistake to make.

You speak the truth about one thing. I am an intelligent man. Intelligence is to be used in everything. What can I do then, but apply this intelligence on interpersonal relationships and see the pros and cons of it, comprehend that there are no positives in it, that I have a high chance of falling out of it damaged in some way and that I can be controlled by the female and the state if I give in to my biological imperative?

In what way is that intelligent?

It's neither smart nor logical. You're basing conclusions on flawed or insufficient data, and I'm sorry, that doesn't qualify in any way as "intelligent".

You're applying your personal experience and emotion to arrive at a conclusion which suits your argument, but is just a wildly bigoted opinion.

Love? Marriage is a contract. Didn't you know that? or you're avoiding that issue? if you aren't aware, in Australia, you only need to live with a woman 6 months for the govt. to make both of you legally married.

Absolutely, 100% incorrect.

Again, I know for a fact that your statement is a fabrication.

Please don't try to conflate property laws with matrimony. The two things are quite separate and totally incompatible - either in discussion, or the eyes of the law in Australia.

Moreso, if a woman starts calling herself Mrs. Smith(Smith being your last name), you are doomed; you are the husband and now you are responsible for her.

Wrong again.

Totally false. Falser than a false bottom on a smuggler's suitcase. Channelling Blackadder, sorry, but your silly attempts to misquote law as fact started me off.

Besides, remember college? Women will go to college, get student loans, then get out college, marry and guess what? the husband will have to pay for the loans.

And again.

Are you going to quote a fact at some stage, or just a list of false accusations?

No offence, but you're starting to look pretty damned silly here.

Another funny facet of "love" is women having fun with the likes of me when they are the prime of their beauty(18 to 25) then get married to a stable, provider. Well, so what is a man? an entertainer? he's there to provide the emotions and feelings and drama and then, the next stage of her life is the guy who'll provide financial security?

Sadly, the 30 year old woman, even if she's secure in her career, independent and all, she'll still seek a guy with at the very least as much academic education as her and more than less, a guy who earns more than her.

I'm not up for that. If I interact with women on a sexual level(and that desire is lowering as I grow older), I interact with women who'll give me a bit of satisfaction and that woman is the 18 to 25 year old woman. The rest of women, the older, are too dangerous.

Repetition of your own failings noted, but nothing new. You take no blame for your own dishonest actions, but deride women for openly wanting stability.

Are you a closet anarchist?

I pity these fellas who get married, you know, sooner or later, the woman will divorce him(that usually happens after 4 years into the marriage. Gotta love love, right?) take from him everything he has, leaving him miserable, depressed and dead.

Damn, I must ask my wife when she;s going to do that.

Did you know that most marriages are ended by women? And that many, many males who are divorced end up killing themselves or living in poverty because they have to pay alimony? There was a case of a man who divorced his wife 25 years ago. All of a sudden, the woman approaches a judge and demands alimony because she's bankrupt. Guess what? She got it.

Wow, now I'm convinced.

You quoted one mythical case and it suddenly applies to all women. Come on, mate. I thought you claimed to be smart? This isn't even parody; it's pure parrot.

Yet again, again, you post a fabrication. Your fantasy situation never existed.

lastly, I have too much to loose(houses, money, my freedom, my man - child status) and too little to gain by "falling in love".

All I see are women clapping that you've removed yourself from the gene pool.

Seriously, you're not even up to the very low standard of whymenarebetterthanwomen.com. At least they're funny.

What am I again? 15 year old?

Nah. I would've gone for 17. Your punctuation's too good for 15. Not brilliant, but too good for 15.

I have to admit that you do have a knowing eye for realizing my high quality, ...

Nah, it's ok mate. You've shown us all your class all the way through your post. I really do look forward to the others! I haven't read then yet, but now I'm really looking forward to them.

...so kudos to you and for that, for your clarity of spirit I won't instill into this post a lot of more reasons why marriage or a serious relationship(or even casual sex) is too much of a risk, I'd dabble on the lies feminism has created and sold to men but alas, the soap opera is on and I feel graceful tonight.

Glad to see you didn't take yourself at your word and posted quite a lot more subsequently.

Myself? I thank my father - for working a soul - crushing job, because it's the right thing to do. Immediately, it came to me that slavery is still very much alive. And I thank my mother. She always told me never to fall for the lies of feminism, her, being a feminism herself, on of the first of my Country also shaped my path into Liberty, greatness and a long, long lifetime with youthful looks and body because I don't have to work for anyone but me and, because I have inherited money from my ancestors(being the last male of the line helps) I don't have to work at all; and no one, no woman is going to touch my money, even if it was on a "date."

Well, going by the factuality ratio of the rest of your post, I find sweeping claims easily ignored.

The greatest energy of love is love for itself. By loving yourself, you are experiencing true, everlasting love.

Well, it certainly looks like you found someone worthy of it.

So honey, not only I am a very gifted poet, a rather intense and exciting young male and intelligent; I am too smart to fall, aha.

See above regarding factual claims.

[Shalot]

Nice post athiest! *applauds*

[The Atheist]

Ding!

Round 2.

What did I say? Shaming language. Sentences meant to make the male promptly apologize and back peddle into pleasing the woman. "You are jaded."

Nah.

What I actually think happened was that your posts were so long that people just saw half of your message and presumed you were some bitter bloke on a crusade against women.

I'm far too old a hand to fall for that trap and I like to dissect posts bit by bit. JBI hates it, but it's the only way to grok a person, I reckon, and I think I have you now expsoed for what you are.

Shaming language?

Yeah, I'm not surprised the girls tried that, but I'm much keener on just letting your fabrications speak for themselves.

You cannot shame me.

Quite right.

What's to shame?

Someone lied on the internet, OMFG!!11!@ I reckon the internet will survive, and far from being shamed, you just slope off and repeate your message somewhere where you won't be exposed as a charlatan and liar.

meaning ,she doesn't have any logical arguments with which attack what I just said on my above post so, because she just has to have the last word, she'll resort to shaming language by going again, on the "you are bitter", "you are jaded" and likewise.

Heck, you almost got something right!

Yes, if you go into a room full of women and shout "All women are hookers who want to enslave men" most women will immediately retreat into defensive/attack mode.

The logical argument against you is complete as in my previous post, but I very much doubt you'd want to go there.

Men have evolved.

I hope you're not a male who's looking to use this thread as evidence.

By the way: great post by Shalot. Studies have show the existence of HPV on the hair of people. You can basically catch herpes if the person who has it went to the bathroom, didn't wash his hands and gave you a hand shake.

This is getting boring.

Now, you're just confusing HPV - genital warts - with herpes.

They're two different dieases.

Sex is indeed very dangerous and with so many women having sex wild to satisfy their sexual urges, to be cool, to rival with their female friends, to get male attention, or to get the Brad Pitt of the zone, you are up for a pretty miserable time. Sad, right? Tough luck buddy, life is hard but think of Africa. It's much, much harder.

This is quite funny when you look at it.

Previously, you were attacking women for being husband-hunters, now you're attacking them for being sexual predators, which is you previously claimed you were.

Not just mixing viruses, now you can't even remember what your "argument" actually is!

Ahaha, I confess: I'm so used to this kind of woman that I didn't bother to read all of her post but my eye caught the last lines of "You haven't just met the right woman for YOU".

Well, at least you're admitting the same crime.

She didn't read your post fully enough to realise that you're not what you appear on the surface and you just didn't bother reading hers.

It's not that I am bitter - I am smart. I am evolved. I observe.

There is strong evidence that none of those is true.

.... the fact that most men loose everything they have,...

Surely, poets know the difference between "loose" and "lose" don't they?

... it's pretty damn logic to conclude that there are no "right person for you", or in another way, most women aren't relationship material.

Aside from the problems of you discussing logic, you're contradicting yourself again - you don't want a relationship, why would you care that they aren't relationship material?

Preach on sister. I've had hardcore feminists, much older than you, much more versed in the art of shaming males, try their wits on me: They leave quite exasperated and I? Quite amused. God, how I love to be a young male, rich and full of potential that will never be hostage to women.

See my previous comments about your factuality rating.



The rest of your post can be safely ignored, being word salad.

Yep, the woman who is going to stab you in the back is going to warn you.

Already covered....

anything new?

Can you comprehend that? Women like you are the most prone to fall for guys like me; guys who are either good with words, emotions or bad boys.

Well, you've convinced me that you aren't that good with words: poor structure, poor grammar, repetition; too many sins to list. You certainly don't appear to be good [or honest] with emotions. Even if everything you've written is just made up, it all shows a complete lack of understanding of emotion, so I have severe doubts you'd be "good" at them.

Bad boy? Nah, I just can't see it. Bad boys don't go to LitNet and try to appear some sexist parody. The only type that might fall for it - librarians - are far too smart to fall for your lies, so even the bad boy image is a fail.

Look. I'll put this into simple words.

Couldn't be much simpler than the rubbish I've seen so far.

If anything, you'd do better to try hide behind bigger ones. At least you might confuse the illiterate that way. As it stands, you're just appearing very, very average.

Love. Good Feeling. Getting divorced. Good for Women. Bad for Men. Why? Because women take everything. It doesn't. Matter. If she was pleasant. The sex was good. The man still ends shafted. Meaning. He's risking bankrupt. Living in the streets.

Just more ridiculously incorrect assertions?

Even if your assertions were right, they'd be trumped by the millions of women assaulted by their husbands every year, but since your premise is incorrect to start withm, there's no point going there.

It's easy.

It is easy!

It's like having spent a moring shooting skeet and suddenly being asked to hit a barn door. You could maybe brush up on subtelty.

It's easy. To want to get married. When. YOU. Have nothing. to waste. Men. On the other hand. Can't afford. That.

Poet. Yeah, right.

here we go again. Do you want me to arrange you a meeting with divorced men?(not the ones who cheated and were bad partners).

Hell yeah, keep those cheating slobs and abusive husbands out.

They just might happen to form a majority, which I alluded to above.

Do you want to know about the suicide percentages of the divorced male?

Yes, I certainly do. Please quote details, ensuring you allow for cases of depression where the break-up can be only partly blamed.

You go get those and I'll come back with the number of inter-marital assaults, murders and rapes every year.

Fancy $10 on the outcome?

The financial consequences of divorces?

Sure, although it's more likely I'll tell you.

The emotional backlash of losing the child?

There are a couple of parts to this, foremost of which is, what the hell would you know about it? You don't have kids, so are basing your opinion solely on some ebittered rubbish by loudmouth fools.

Secondly, fathers don't "lose" children after a divorce, and there are lots of fathers who play a highly actove role in upbringing after divorce.

Third, seeing as how you're such an intelligent and logical bloke, we could compare figures of fathers who would seek custody of their kids with those who escape their responsibilities by running away.

Oh yeah, you're rich as well; we could have another $10 on that one.

The man very rarely gets the kid. Do you want to know how much pain a man feels when he doesn't see his child? 2 times a month? is that all? Do you know how it feels when men see their kids being raised by other males?

Do you?

No.

Empty rhetoric.

Men are made to be glorious. Do you understand that? Do you understand the quality of a van Gogh? of a Neil Armstrong? Any man can be like them, if they free themselves from the chains of society i,e; children and women.

In all of your rubbish, that on'es actually not too bad. I'm presuming you saw it elsewhere, because your originality is not evident elsewhere.

Do I sound drastic? You can bet your pink horse.

I'd bet anything against "drastic". "Inconsequential", "conflicting" spring to mind, but nowhere near "drastic". What's a pink horse worth these days?

Will I achieve my goals? You can bet two pink horses.

Your goal of remaining celibate?

I'd put my house on it; no bet.

Men aren't made for women, and women aren't made for men. Marriage has always been a bad contract for men. Love is about rising above nature; achieving power beyond imagination by doing something great, by making yourself great.

You're recommending a gay lifestyle?

Some sense at last!

I'm not arguing that love doesn't exist. How can I argue what is a fact? love has been proven to be nothing more than a physical/chemical reaction to proper stimulation. I could make you fall in love. I can make the woman next door fall in love. How? because I understand the principles of "love".

Understanding without understanding. That's fairly original, but certainly not unknown.

After the 5th female, sex turns out to be the same.

I'm removing all the irrelevant posturing as I work through, but I figured this was funny enough to mention.

Have you ever read any books about sex? I suggest you try a couple, because five is a very small sample, and my experience has been almost exactly the opposite - it's virtually never the same. (and with a few more than 5)

What you want and what other women want from me is to stay a teenager forever.

Worked.

What in Heaven's name am I?

there's a very good question. Unfortunately, other than "wrong on almost everything" I couldn't say. I suspect it's some kind of attempt to make up for some inadequacy of your own, but you could just be failing to be funny.

Right. Will God also smitten me if I say his name in vain?

Can't imagine so.

I've been doing it forever and remain smote-less.

I speak for the guys my father has to deal with (and I in the same fashion), when they reach his office wanting to keep a little percent of their money, of their house, their children whatever.

All that inheritance and your father has an office and deals with losers?

What a bloke!

One only has to look at the draconian laws, geared to prejudice men; in England, there's a new law that states that if a man has his own house but has a child with a woman, the woman gets the house.

More fabrication. It gets a bit tedious after a while.

For your information, you only need to live a few years(in Australia: 6 months)together, for the govt. think of you as married, treat you as married, and give to you all the benefits when separation happens.

Quite right. It'd be so much fairer if guys just abrogate all their responsibilities.

Bad boys, well, we just don't give a damn about anything or anyone; we're perpetual James Deans - knowing that women fall for that guy, we either "pontificate" him or we just don't care; we are the real deal.

Sorry, but you do make me laugh.

"Real deals" don't generally need to tell everyone how tought they are.

I gotta stop writing poetry for women, though, imagine that, when I become famous, they can earn much money with them .

You know, I just don't see that as a worry.

The Bad boy - Well, I simply just don't give a damn. They say I look far better without a beard but because I don't care, about what they want or like or need, I go months without shaving my beard.

Wow, you really are BAD!

I've also gone months without washing my hair or changing my clothes - I have oily hair.

Although you're a poet verging on international fame, I think I should point to you that dirsty is not a synonym for bad.

I'm nothing of the thug, most of the bad boy and most of the charmer. Hm, in a way, I'm a god damn freak of nature .

This is believable.

My father, my father lies on the 4th group. The group that enabled society to come to live. My father's group. He's 52 year old, handsome male(in a masculine way: 6'1' with proper weight, mustache) etc.

Very similar age to me.

I'd be subtracting several thousand points for giving you such a lousy education, but that's just me.

Me? All i want is fun, a lifetime of fun. I'm too much dead and gone from the ordinary world to worry myself about the certainties of adult "manhood" . Thankfully, my fickle and emotional nature saves me from the mistakes the 4th group makes, ahaha.

This is quite interesting because I think there's a nugget of truth in there. It;s difficult to separate your true feelings because of the incoherence and contradiction in your posts, but I do believe you want a lifetime of fun.

You just have no idea how to go about it.

Life is sweet.

Funny how you keep telling us.

If life is so sweet, why on earth do you think you'll gain any extra sweetness from coming in here and ranting like some kind of parody misogynist?

Did you know that by law, if a man doesn't pay alimony, he goes to jail? You miss one payment: jail for you!

More of those tedious fabrications.

You really ought to stop them now.

[The Atheist]

Nice post athiest! *applauds*

Too easy.



Can you find me someone a bit older, smarter and more coherent next time?

Still, it's a good segue into the kind of fantasy people forced into celibacy come up with to support their lack of nookie.

[soundofmusic]

Getting silly? This discussion was silly from the beginning and kept going down hill.

Virgil, I'm hurt; my sensitive female ego may never get over this

Just one case: I had one 33 year old girlfriend leave her husband and three kids because she mistakenly thought I was going to become her new husband.

Of course, I didn't bother letting her know that I wasn't her soulmate, I just started having sex with one of her competitors.

I wonder why I suddenly find you irresistible

Can you find me someone a bit older, smarter and more coherent next time?

Hum, Hum, I just kind of spead read and got to that part...can't claim coherence....I don't have to babysit, do I?

[The Atheist]

I wonder why I suddenly find you irresistible

You're a sad, sad case.

Hum, Hum, I just kind of spead read and got to that part...can't claim coherence....I don't have to babysit, do I?

Smart move, it wasn't worth reading.

Babysitting? Hell yeah, we could do with a babysitter. How are at you changing nappies? Still remember how to do it?

[JuniperWoolf]

Thank you so much for schooling him Atheist. I don't think that I could have done it without exploding in rage and chucking my printer at my boyfriend's book case. Even though he is lying about basically everything that he said except for his own misogyny, I couldn't stand to read the words. His posts reminded me of that Polytechnique coward.