This is basically a continuation of the very popular thread: Benefits of Chastity and Celibacy. It has been removed from the Religious thread so that we may consider all of the mental, physical, and spiritual advantages and disadvantages of Celibacy in a mature and accepting fashion.
What is your opinion? Is a celibate lifestyle practical? Does it improve athletic performance? Does it make one more spiritual, closer to nature?
Celibacy is not only a matter of physicality it is a state of mind. Even if you restrain your physical sexual activities, you may still dream of some sensual activities. Then how can you be clean of it?
“Those who seek to satisfy the mind of man by hampering it with ceremonies and music and affecting charity and devotion have lost their original nature””
“If water derives lucidity from stillness, how much more the faculties of the mind! The mind of the sage, being in repose, becomes the mirror of the universe, the speculum of all creation.
If we're going to start - or continue - this discussion, can we at least lay down the ground rule that no one makes reference to celibacy in terms of 'purity', 'cleanliness', or any other 'makes your whites whiter' phrase, and that sex is not referred to in terms of 'impurity', 'baseness', or any similar words that have connotations of dirtiness.
I mean, if we start with that implicit prejudice, the conversation's a tad skewed from the kickoff, isn't it?
If it does, that seems to me to be reason enough to reject it.Originally Posted by soundofmusic
An interesting thought, Blaze. I think that those who hope to gain some mental and physical advantages from celibacy are of the impression that they do this by first working on the outside man. They do this in the hope that eventually, the sub-conscious will follow.
Is this possible at the peak of ones health and sexuality?
Do you mean, nocturnal emissions which is just a physiological release of semen; or are you talking about actual dreams? Personally I only have dreamed of sexual activity when my imagination was stimulated by beauty, guilt or fear; then again, I am a woman and was married most of my adult life.
The original forum had been very popular and a number of excellent side conversations had emerged: alternative lifestyles, health issues concerning sexual activity, the "norms" of sexual behavior and animal behavior, etc. Unfortuantely, because the topic began in a religious forum; we constantly risked offending some of our peers. I hope that with this new thread, because it is on a general chat thread, we can examine several of these side issues. Those who wish to examine chastity from a religious point of view only, may choose to remain on the original thread.
Yes, well....I'm speechless...
In fact we are too much obsessed with religious points of view when it comes to celibacy but what I think is it is a moral and social issue too and why should not we view it from other points than just the religious one.
“Those who seek to satisfy the mind of man by hampering it with ceremonies and music and affecting charity and devotion have lost their original nature””
“If water derives lucidity from stillness, how much more the faculties of the mind! The mind of the sage, being in repose, becomes the mirror of the universe, the speculum of all creation.
Why? I'm simply saying that I don't want to get any closer to nature, and I don't think that it's always a good thing to be more spiritual.
If you told me that celibacy would get me closer to downtown, and that it would make me more intellectual, I might give it some thought.
Last edited by MarkBastable; 11-07-2009 at 10:42 PM.
Nah it's the other way around. Sex is nature. The idea of celibacy is to ignore nature for some sort of ethical reason. Hogwash if you ask me.
I'm losing all those stupid games
That I swore I'd never play
What about sexual abuse like rape and molestation?
“Those who seek to satisfy the mind of man by hampering it with ceremonies and music and affecting charity and devotion have lost their original nature””
“If water derives lucidity from stillness, how much more the faculties of the mind! The mind of the sage, being in repose, becomes the mirror of the universe, the speculum of all creation.
Rape and molestation are not nature. The inference then is that ignoring or suppressing one's sexual tendencies is to create more rape and molestation.
As was mentioned earlier in another post, the rate of sex crimes has been decreasing since the increase in availability of internet pornography, some of which caters to the idea of pedophilia and molestation. I won't go off on a tangent about the porn industry, but if people harbouring these thoughts can, for lack of a better term, "take care" of this on their own instead of suppressing it to the point where they actually abuse someone, that's fine by me.
Also, for anyone who is arguing for the benefits of chastity and celibacy, how are masturbation and/or oral sex applied to that situation?
Last edited by *Classic*Charm*; 11-08-2009 at 01:53 AM.
I'm weary with right-angles, abbreviated daylight,
Waiting for a winter to be done.
Why do I still see you in every mirrored window,
In all that I could never overcome?
The point is we humans make misuse of it and there is balance in nature. Man is at times oversexed and unseasonably and inappropriately. Our society is not in balance, and man makes overuse of it. We know man overbalance nature and so is sex and this backs up the fact that sexual behaviors must be restrained to some extent
“Those who seek to satisfy the mind of man by hampering it with ceremonies and music and affecting charity and devotion have lost their original nature””
“If water derives lucidity from stillness, how much more the faculties of the mind! The mind of the sage, being in repose, becomes the mirror of the universe, the speculum of all creation.
So you're saying that rape and molestation are misuses of sex. I agree.
You're saying that those who wish to commit such acts should refrain from doing so. I also agree with that. Those are extreme cases and those people have far bigger problems than an over-active sex drive. They need to be restrained in ways other than just refraining from sex- they need to be removed from society altogether. I don't really see that case as being particularly relevant to the issue at hand: how does celibacy benefit the average person?
If something is good for my health, makes me happy, and has the same benefits for another, why shouldn't I do it? No one is harmed, and those involved are benefitted.
What does it mean to be "oversexed"? What does it mean to "overbalance nature"? And how does cutting something out altogether restore any sense of balance, if balance is your argument?
I'm weary with right-angles, abbreviated daylight,
Waiting for a winter to be done.
Why do I still see you in every mirrored window,
In all that I could never overcome?
In fact all I mean to say is that man violates natural laws; we are increasingly engaged in disrupting natural order and regulation. It is evident from the overexploitation of resources out of our greed. We are creating threats to ecology and that ultimately destroy natural habitats. That man is a greedy and amoral creature is always true. Restraint or moderation is necessary in his case. Sex is one of the things man makes misuse of and that is the reason so many innocents fall victims to misuse or sexual harassment. Man must be taught to use it properly thru education and moral persuasion. Almost all religions have recommended moral codes when it comes to dealing with the issues of sex. I do not stress celibacy totally but what I meant to balance it is educate people about it and so that they would not misuse it and it creates a good amount of understanding.
In Hinduism there are four ways of life: first Brahmacharya, i.e., celibacy up to the age of towenty two or twenty five, and there are other three ways that do not bear any relevance here and I refrain from describing them. Imagine if a student indulges in sexual activities in his early twenties we know the consequence. There are values in all cultures and religions and they are not all false.
“Those who seek to satisfy the mind of man by hampering it with ceremonies and music and affecting charity and devotion have lost their original nature””
“If water derives lucidity from stillness, how much more the faculties of the mind! The mind of the sage, being in repose, becomes the mirror of the universe, the speculum of all creation.
[QUOTE=MarkBastable;801621]Why? I'm simply saying that I don't want to get any closer to nature, and I don't think that it's always a good thing to be more spiritual.
If you told me that celibacy would get me closer to downtown, and that it would make me more intellectual, I might give it some thought.[/QUOTE
I saw some recent polls from the UK: there has been a campaign which gave out "morning after" pills to young people; hoping that this would decrease the surge in teenage pregancy. It claims that there was no decrease in teenage pregancy; but there was a significant increase in sexually transmitted disease.
You make an interesting point; I notice, among my peers at work, that those who seem to give little significance to sex, manage to "get closer to downtown". They don't seem to be intellectual beings, more goal oriented.
I always thought of oral sex or masturbation as a precursor to intercourse; or something to be used when one needs a really good nights sleep. It seems that some have a preference for those. Prosthetics also seem to be very common with single people as well as couples.
I would think that one is celibate as long as they are not "with another person"; what are your thoughts?
Hmm I think it's a difficult distinction to make, because my initial thought would be that to be celibate, the line would be drawn such to make penetration the standard for what counts as sex. This, however, then includes female masturbation as something to be avoided, but male masturbation is okay. That hardly seems fair.
I would assume that a celibate person would refrain from oral sex and masturbation. The idea is to ignore the urges and restrict pleasure, is it not? If one can achieve the same level of satisfaction and pleasure from these, I would think that they too would be avoided.
I'm weary with right-angles, abbreviated daylight,
Waiting for a winter to be done.
Why do I still see you in every mirrored window,
In all that I could never overcome?
You bring up a good point, Blaze: one that we may not be able to appreciate fully in wealthier countries. I noticed that(in a Unicef study) in Nepal, 42% of girls are given in marriage between the ages of 15 and 19; their parents do this to keep them virgins until marriage, and to assist their own financial status. In this context, I can see that the idea of constraint may improve the countrys finacial condition. Do you think this study is accurate?
Do you feel that the Hindu practices and teaching has been effective?
Many will agree with you
Perhaps the athletes in Platos time were claiming to be abstinate ("not touching women or young boys" as he stated) instead of admitting erectile dysfunction and a low libido during heavy training.
Is a low libido and erectile dysfunction common with heavy training, or stress?
Yes, I suppose the idea is to concentrate on other things instead of sexual gratification; but as Blaze mentioned before, it just pops its annoying little head up in dreams...
I have never found masturbation, with or without a lover, as emotionally gratifying as intercourse. I have also noticed that when one becomes accustomed to manual stimulation; there is some difficulty with premature ejaculation or delayed ejaculation.
What are your thoughts?
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