I was having trouble on this *difficult* poem, & a few questions, among others and would like your help.
1. What is the main visual image in each stanza? What is the meaning and effect of each image.
2. What's the purpose of the author using the words horn, reddened Euphrates and "as satisfaction for a sin"?
Thx in advanced!!
Poem can be found at:
http://www.library.utoronto.ca/canpo...ratt/poem2.htm
Last edited by sodr2; 02-08-2009 at 04:29 PM.
Chop that poem, I think the E. J. Pratt estate would be angry otherwise.
Give me your ideas first - as somewhat who has done a somewhat thorough reading of Pratt's works, I can help you, but note that, help you, not do your homework.
Alright, I guess it is only fair. *My* interpretation of the poem is of a man who sets out on a journey to his lover (from Java to Geneva), which seems to be taking as long as mankind has progressed "from stone to steel." I'm also guessing that his lover is an Aryan. But then he starts getting into the desires of the flesh??........then everything in my brain collapses.
Last edited by sodr2; 02-08-2009 at 04:32 PM.
IT may help you to know that Pratt was Canadian, and the poem first published in 1932. Pratt's work at this point was heavily influenced by the First World War, and the subsequent political strife, hence the Germanic symbolism used throughout, and the constant references to European places and civilization.
It is also of importance to note that Pratt himself was an ordained minister, and that there is a strong theological vein running through the entire poem, especially at the end. If you don't know what Gethsemane is, look it up, because the poem rests on it.
In addition to this, some important facts for background - Java is an island in Indonesia, and around the composition of the poem, a time when various neanderthals were excavated. Geneva at this time was the headquarter of the League of Nations.
Aryans according to Nazi, and various congruent Germanic theories, were said to be the "super" race.
And, Euphrates was a river running through Mesopotamia (now Iraq), and the Rhine is a river running through Germany and the Netherlands.
Last edited by JBI; 02-08-2009 at 04:43 PM.
i dont know the author or the poem, but for me the poem seems very sinister- the path runs through gethsemane, gethsemane being the garden jesus was betrayed in, and no matter whether someone walks, rides a bike, rolls a stone, and whatnot, the path will always run through gethsemane?
reddened euphrates is sometimes used as a sign for pontius pilate who said "i wash my hands in innocence" or something to that extent... satisfaction for a sin no idea
Yes I know what Gethsemane is, so I'm guessing that we must all go through deep suffering, "whether to the cross or crown." Cross or crown?? Temple and cave?
I know part of the poem has to do with animal sacrifices as the atonement of sins as mentioned in the 2nd last stanza. I notice that throughout the poem he's comparing ancient with modern times, um....from stone to steel...yeah, I can't see how this all relates.
lol, my hypothesis about the love journey was wrong? :'(
Hm. I guess it's something to do with betrayal in general...
The evolution of desire
Has but matured a toxic wine,
Drunk long before its heady fire
Reddened Euphrates or the Rhine.
jbi said geneva was headquartr of the league of nations... so maybe this stanza is meant to say that the desire of peace in europe wasn't bad, but the things that sprang from it misevolved and was developed earlier than it was ready?
Between the temple and the cave
The boundary lies tissue thin:
The yearlings still the altars crave
As satisfaction for a sin.
if the temple stands for the people who sought power and the cave for the death/resurrection, and thinking about the yearlings... this stanza could have something to do with "proper" sin- the altars crave when the altars were what originally caused the death of jesus, whose death sort of cleared us of our sins... ahh confusing! i like poems that confuse me
Hold on I think I have something.....
Correct me if I'm wrong: throughout mankind's evolution, (stone to steel, Java to Geneva, etc) to attain peace, we must go through suffering....something along these lines?? Please help me elaborate.
Last edited by sodr2; 02-08-2009 at 05:40 PM.
JBI!!! Why'd you leave me? :'(
>:O
Well, raindrops4u, any other ideas?....
Last edited by sodr2; 02-08-2009 at 05:39 PM.
Anyone have any other ideas? I'm really stuck and I'm being graded on this....I really don't want to fail.
Last edited by sodr2; 02-08-2009 at 06:33 PM.
You seem really desperate, I haven't any time because I'm going to bed, but I'll give you a few thoughts to help you out. However all you need to do is go with your own interpretation and back this up with evidence from the text and you can't "fail," anyway a couple of things you may want to look at or may already have gathered:
From stone to bronze, from bronze to steelWhether to the cross or crownThe evolution of desireTime never changing in relation to desireThe path lies through Gethsemane
Cross=Christianity=religion=religions
Crown=monarchy=politics
Desire=constant? Evolution of man, of humanity has not changed
Hope that helps in some small way, but don't forget just argue your own individual interpretation.
Alright, thank you guys for your ideas. I think I have a good foundation now....
Last edited by sodr2; 02-10-2009 at 07:52 PM.
hello...am facing the same situation as sodr2. 'from stone to steal' has a variety of meanings mostly depending in what angle your looking at it. i would like to ask for assistance in analyzing this poem using marxist criticism. i dont know were to start and what quotes to use.
Whose marxist criticism?Originally Posted by blacksniper
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