I just meant that it is a worthwhile debate to have that doesn't need to wait for scientific evidence to explain the role of the mind in belief context.Originally Posted by Hisnibs
I just meant that it is a worthwhile debate to have that doesn't need to wait for scientific evidence to explain the role of the mind in belief context.
Amen to that
I think we dream so we don't have to be apart so long. Hobbes (Bill Watterson)
The problem is that you try to play the game as a man. If you hinder all your gifts trying to play like the rest of them, then you'll never achieve your potential.Mona- Half and Half
And R. I. P. too for the thread, it seems.
"I am thinking of aurochs and angels, the secret of durable pigments, prophetic sonnets, the refuge of art. And this is the only immortality you and I may share, my Lolita." -- Vladimir Nabokov
I am not sure what bothers me most about religion (in my case catholic) it varies but as a woman what bothers me most is a bunch of men telling me what I can and can not do with my body. This has bothered me for some time I actully mentioned this once in school and was promply sent out of the room to office. The fact that there was no debate or answer to my problem also bothered me I guess that was when I began to waver.
Why do you single out men? Are you saying there are no women who are against abortion? Are you saying that nuns are not against abortion. In my country, I find the most passionate people on the pro life side happen to be women. Of course the most passonate people on the abortion side happen to be women too.
LET THERE BE LIGHT
"Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena
My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/
You have a very valid point there which I never thought about until you mentioned it. But from where I sit men seem to run the church so I guess that is where that comes from, if the pope said abortion was OK I really think there would be little said by the nuns against it, but I may be way off base. I should clariy that I am niether pro abortion or pro life I have never been placed in the aweful position of having to make a decision like that, but if I were I wouldn't want the extra worry of upsetting the creator.
Virgil I just wanted to say your posts and thoughts always make me think outside of box I am in so thanks for that. In this case I may have been giving men a bad wrap. I will have to think about this a little more I think.
Well, thanks Joreads. I tried to find the split between men and women on this issue and I couldn't find anything recent. The only one I found was that both men and women are equally either pro life or pro abortion. But you may find this wikipedia entry interesting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro-life_feminism
LET THERE BE LIGHT
"Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena
My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/
It is interesting to note though, the number of men outspoken against abortion on the higher levels of society. The fact that a man can have a pro-choice, or pro-life opinion is puzzling, as the question of choice is not really a man's decision to make. But either way, Catholic dogma is rather adamant on the issue, which raises questions of whether one can be a catholic, while being pro-choice.
Either way though, there are perhaps more important issues, such as the catholic church saying no condoms, and no birth control of the sort, which is ridiculous. Condoms didn't exist in 0 AD, therefore it is silly to say god decrees that one cannot use a condom.
This thread was about Atheism; if it degenerates into abortion debate it will be closed, like so many others here:
http://www.online-literature.com/for...d.php?p=197859
http://www.online-literature.com/for...ad.php?t=16232
Please try to get back to the OP or it will be closed.
Virgil thanks for that link it is a really interesting article. I never thought of abortion as being something that kept women in submission as is suggested I am going to do some more reading and research on the subject now.
JBI I think that you made my orginal point better then I did, it is not a man's decision to make in end the woman has the final and really only say. I will not get into the rights and wrongs of that we would be here all night. I also agree that there are a lot of other important issues such as birth control etc whether or not they are more important is another question altogether though.
Why is it puzzling? If abortion equals killing of innocence than why wouldn't anyone from any gender be passionate about it?
LET THERE BE LIGHT
"Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena
My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/
I agree with you here Virgil and I think that it should also be remembered that in most cases what ever decision is taken there is an emotional impact to the man involved in the situation as well and I think the in the debate of the issue that is sometimes lost or forgotten altogether. In fact I have been guilty of that myself.
Jo
I am not passionate about it, because I do not think human life is uniquely or even particularly exceptional. We kill each other daily, and on the far side of certain spectrums, there are Americans who believe that American lives are of more value than those lives in the Third World--which is as ludicrous as any Biblical exceptionalism.
The right wing screams at the top of its lungs, but they do precious little to help those like me, who suffer a poor quality of life because the system forces this on the disabled who have failed in matriculation or others really suffering from lack of resources.
Logos: I was going to ask it be closed awhile back--I partly blame myself for framing the issue poorly, so the powers that be will get no beef from me if you lock it. Apparently, some members think LN is an excellent place for the contention of wedge issues, and denigrate discussions accordingly. I am not blameless, and won't try to be, but I do come here mainly for the literary aspects of an issue--including atheism. It is a tough nut to chew, but if I find a better way to look at secular humanists, I will try again.
Last edited by Jozanny; 12-11-2008 at 03:52 AM.
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