Chekhov Short Story Thread

[Dark Muse]

While we're figuring this out, let me point to one other thing. What do you make of the tramp's version of his past? It seems like he's trying to paint himself as the victim. Later it tells us that he begins relating things to the constables in "mawkish" tones. Do you think that the tramp may be a little self-pitying? Could this be part of his daydreams? We know we can't trust his foresight, so why should we trust his memory?

I do think he is trying to make himself look more like a victim. Particuarlly the way he keeps saying he is but a decent Christain. I think in someways he is perhaps a bit wrapped up in himself and is pitying himself, becasue of his upbrigning he does seem to think he is better than other people.

I have briefly mentioned this before, but in many ways he really does seem to be a fool/jesture like character to me.

I am going to have to read this story again. Beacause there was something about his exile that I was unsure about but before I comment I want to go back over it and make sure I had not missed for forgotton anything.

[Dark Muse]

I was reading over the story again, and after my reading, it sounds as if he really is being exiled just for being a tramp.

Here is the pragraph that seems to suggest it:

"Who has any need to know my name?" sighed the tramp, leaning his cheek on his fist. "And what advantage would it be to me if they did know it? If I were allowed to go where I would -- but it would only make things worse. I know the law, Christian brothers. Now I am a tramp who doesn't remember his name, and it's the very most if they send me to Eastern Siberia and give me thirty or forty lashes; but if I were to tell them my real name and description they would send me back to hard labour, I know!"

[Nossa]

Hey guys! I wanted to know if you are going to have a September story? I missed Dreams, and I really wanna start reading Chekhov again. I have plenty of time next month, so I was wondering if you guys are having a new read for next month. Or are you gonna take a break? Or maybe you're not decided yet lol

[Janine]

Nossa, It is mostly up to Quark, and I would imagine he wants to continue on, unless he is too busy with school. He is sort of unofficially, the one who chooses the story and posts the introductions.

No doubt, soon as I write his name here, he will magically appear. He always does!

[Nossa]

Yeah, I saw that in the Lawrence thread! Maybe you should ask him about it...maybe he has secret psychic powers

[Janine]

Yeah, I saw that in the Lawrence thread! Maybe you should ask him about it...maybe he has secret psychic powers

I did tell him, countless times, that he must have ESP. It is kind of bizzare - he always pops in right after I mention his name; but at least my avy does not look like his and so our posts have never merged. Now that was truly bizzare, wasn't it?

[Quark]

I think in someways he is perhaps a bit wrapped up in himself and is pitying himself, becasue of his upbrigning he does seem to think he is better than other people.

"Wrapped up in himself" is a good way to put it. I don't think he's lying here. I just have a feeling he's manipulating the story in such a way to make it more affecting and to cast himself in a certain light. His story is obviously a sad one, but the tramp keeps altering reality to make it more enjoyable for himself.

As for his refined habits, I don't think that those make him believe he's better than other people. He treats the constables nicely, at least. Perhaps you could see his manner as condescending, but I didn't see anything to prove that. If the tramp thinks he's superior, he believe he's superior to his circumstances. For example, he constantly complains about his fate and the conditions at the prison. He doesn't feel like he belongs in this place at all.

I have briefly mentioned this before, but in many ways he really does seem to be a fool/jesture like character to me.

I saw that before, but I was a little confused. What makes him a fool/jester? He doesn't find anything funny in his situation, and he doesn't seem like a fool. He appears to recognize his situation perfectly (other than his fancied trip to Siberia).

I was reading over the story again, and after my reading, it sounds as if he really is being exiled just for being a tramp.

I couldn't make heads or tails of that. It says he's knows what happens to a "tramp who doesn't remember his name." Both not remembering his name and being tramp are mentioned here, so it's still difficult to decide which is the crime.

Hey guys! I wanted to know if you are going to have a September story?

Nothing has been decided yet, but I assume there will be another story. When we finish with this story, I'll throw out some possible stories we could read and if there's any interest we'll start again with a different story. If we do another story, though, we probably won't start until the end of next week.

It is kind of bizzare - he always pops in right after I mention his name

This time it isn't so bizarre, but yes I have appeared often once my name's been said.

[Dark Muse]

"Wrapped up in himself" is a good way to put it. I don't think he's lying here. I just have a feeling he's manipulating the story in such a way to make it more affecting and to cast himself in a certain light. His story is obviously a sad one, but the tramp keeps altering reality to make it more enjoyable for himself.

As for his refined habits, I don't think that those make him believe he's better than other people. He treats the constables nicely, at least. Perhaps you could see his manner as condescending, but I didn't see anything to prove that. If the tramp thinks he's superior, he believe he's superior to his circumstances. For example, he constantly complains about his fate and the conditions at the prison. He doesn't feel like he belongs in this place at all..

It just seems to me that he is trying to use his upbrigning and the way he was educated as a way to make him look even more pitful and gain more sypathy. As if, if he were just a "mere" peseant, it would not be as bad, because he would not have as full of an understanding of his situation.

He just seems to act to me, as if his situation is so much worse because he is a gentleman.

And the fact when he says he weeps when he reads becasue of how poorly the books are written. That struck me as condencending.

"I saw that before, but I was a little confused. What makes him a fool/jester? He doesn't find anything funny in his situation, and he doesn't seem like a fool. He appears to recognize his situation perfectly (other than his fancied trip to Siberia).

I guess he comes off to me that way more visually than his acutal actions. I will try and explain what I mean. But of how they describe him, and of how mismatched he is. And the way he is this sickly figure talking in such an elequant way. And his clothing, and the fact that he is a mix-match between a peseant and a gentleman, and dose not truly fit either. He almost seems a mokery of himself in that regaurd in my eyes.

When I first read the story and they were talking about his apperence I had this image in my head of like a gestures mix-matched costume.

[Janine]

Ah - see I knew he would appear....

I have been reading the posts, but not posting very much, sorry I have not been as active as usual, Quark. I had not felt well all this past week.

Today my grand-daughter came to visit all day, so I was quite happy and preocuppied with seeing her - it had been awhile.

I did however, just read all of your comments. Another new story would be fine with me for the end of next week or maybe even the following Monday.

[Quark]

It just seems to me that he is trying to use his upbrigning and the way he was educated as a way to make him look even more pitful and gain more sypathy.

Yeah, part of his argument is that he wouldn't be so miserable if he wasn't so aristocratic. The section where he describes the conditions of the prison shows exposes this pretty well.

And the fact when he says he weeps when he reads becasue of how poorly the books are written. That struck me as condencending.

It's difficult to say whether he's posing here. It's possible that he is trying to hold his delicate feelings over the constables. It's also possible, though, that he might actually feel deeply about the stories he reads. This may even be the more probable assumptions since Chekhov entertained this notion of literature, too. His stories were cheap tales that had sad conclusions--at least, that's how they were viewed at the time. Chekhov may be trying to say that people with real feeling enjoy his type of fiction.

I guess he comes off to me that way more visually than his acutal actions. I will try and explain what I mean. But of how they describe him, and of how mismatched he is. And the way he is this sickly figure talking in such an elequant way. And his clothing, and the fact that he is a mix-match between a peseant and a gentleman, and dose not truly fit either.

No doubt his appearance is funny. All three of them are pretty humorous. I think I described them as misfits before, and I stick with that label. They're characters, positions, aspirations, clothes, and manner all contradict each other. It makes them a little funny in our eyes, but I think it also humanizes them in a way. Even though all the characteristics Chekhov gives them are pretty stereotypical, the odd combination of them in each character makes them unique. And, as Chekhov adds each characteristic, one by one, we move from a humorous sketch of misfits to a poignant ending of individual desire thwarted.

I have been reading the posts, but not posting very much, sorry I have not been as active as usual, Quark. I had not felt well all this past week.

There isn't any rush to post here, but what are you going to do for the L thread? Are you going to do another story (as labor-intensive as that is)?

Today my grand-daughter came to visit all day, so I was quite happy and preocuppied with seeing her - it had been awhile.

Well that certainly trumps LitNet. Hopefully it went well.

Another new story would be fine with me for the end of next week or maybe even the following Monday.

The end of next week is the earliest we could start, I think. Most likely, it will be the following week. We still have two more sections in this story left, then we have to decide on the next story, then I have to post an introduction. All this will take a while. Plus, I'd like to look into the Winter's Tale thread again. It appears they finally started Act IV.

Here's more of the story. The tramp begins to explain his dreams to the constables:

"It is quite a different thing. In penal servitude you are like a crab in a basket: crowding, crushing, jostling, there's no room to breathe; it's downright hell -- such hell, may the Queen of Heaven keep us from it! You are a robber and treated like a robber -- worse than any dog. You can't sleep, you can't eat or even say your prayers. But it's not like that in a settlement. In a settlement I shall be a member of a commune like other people. The authorities are bound by law to give me my share . . . ye-es! They say the land costs nothing, no more than snow; you can take what you like! They will give me corn land and building land and garden. . . . I shall plough my fields like other people, sow seed. I shall have cattle and stock of all sorts, bees, sheep, and dogs. . . . A Siberian cat, that rats and mice may not devour my goods. . . . I will put up a house, I shall buy ikons. . . . Please God, I'll get married, I shall have children. . . ."

The tramp muttered and looked, not at his listeners, but away into the distance. Naïve as his dreams were, they were uttered in such a genuine and heartfelt tone that it was difficult not to believe in them. The tramp's little mouth was screwed up in a smile. His eyes and little nose and his whole face were fixed and blank with blissful anticipation of happiness in the distant future. The constables listened and looked at him gravely, not without sympathy. They, too, believed in his dreams.

"I am not afraid of Siberia," the tramp went on muttering. "Siberia is just as much Russia and has the same God and Tsar as here. They are just as orthodox Christians as you and I. Only there is more freedom there and people are better off. Everything is better there. Take the rivers there, for instance; they are far better than those here. There's no end of fish; and all sorts of wild fowl. And my greatest pleasure, brothers, is fishing. Give me no bread to eat, but let me sit with a fishhook. Yes, indeed! I fish with a hook and with a wire line, and set creels, and when the ice comes I catch with a net. I am not strong to draw up the net, so I shall hire a man for five kopecks. And, Lord, what a pleasure it is! You catch an eel-pout or a roach of some sort and are as pleased as though you had met your own brother. And would you believe it, there's a special art for every fish: you catch one with a live bait, you catch another with a grub, the third with a frog or a grasshopper. One has to understand all that, of course! For example, take the eel-pout. It is not a delicate fish -- it will take a perch; and a pike loves a gudgeon, the shilishper likes a butterfly. If you fish for a roach in a rapid stream there is no greater pleasure. You throw the line of seventy feet without lead, with a butterfly or a beetle, so that the bait floats on the surface; you stand in the water without your trousers and let it go with the current, and tug! the roach pulls at it! Only you have got to be artful that he doesn't carry off the bait, the damned rascal. As soon as he tugs at your line you must whip it up; it's no good waiting. It's wonderful what a lot of fish I've caught in my time. When we were running away the other convicts would sleep in the forest; I could not sleep, but I was off to the river. The rivers there are wide and rapid, the banks are steep -- awfully! It's all slumbering forests on the bank. The trees are so tall that if you look to the top it makes you dizzy. Every pine would be worth ten roubles by the prices here."

In the overwhelming rush of his fancies, of artistic images of the past and sweet presentiments of happiness in the future, the poor wretch sank into silence, merely moving his lips as though whispering to himself. The vacant, blissful smile never left his lips. The constables were silent. They were pondering with bent heads. In the autumn stillness, when the cold, sullen mist that rises from the earth lies like a weight on the heart, when it stands like a prison wall before the eyes, and reminds man of the limitation of his freedom, it is sweet to think of the broad, rapid rivers, with steep banks wild and luxuriant, of the impenetrable forests, of the boundless steppes. Slowly and quietly the fancy pictures how early in the morning, before the flush of dawn has left the sky, a man makes his way along the steep deserted bank like a tiny speck: the ancient, mast-like pines rise up in terraces on both sides of the torrent, gaze sternly at the free man and murmur menacingly; rocks, huge stones, and thorny bushes bar his way, but he is strong in body and bold in spirit, and has no fear of the pine-trees, nor stones, nor of his solitude, nor of the reverberating echo which repeats the sound of every footstep that he takes.

I'll post the constables reaction and the conclusion of the story in the next chunk.

[Janine]

Yeah, part of his argument is that he wouldn't be so miserable if he wasn't so aristocratic. The section where he describes the conditions of the prison shows exposes this pretty well.

I agree - I thought that fact set up a good contrast to his present state and also make it even seem worse for him to endure. It is a kind of fall from grace, even though he probably wasn't exactly wealthy. I am sure now being reduced to a tramp is pretty humiliating to him and his former stature....at least personally, to himself.

It's difficult to say whether he's posing here. It's possible that he is trying to hold his delicate feelings over the constables. It's also possible, though, that he might actually feel deeply about the stories he reads. This may even be the more probable assumptions since Chekhov entertained this notion of literature, too. His stories were cheap tales that had sad conclusions--at least, that's how they were viewed at the time. Chekhov may be trying to say that people with real feeling enjoy his type of fiction.

I tend to agree with this idea since Chekhov did write this sort of fiction with much pathos and sadness. I think he would know that people could identify with these sorry states and therefore they did like the sadder fiction as opposed to lighter, and perhaps meaningless, stories. The deeper meaning of this story kind of hits one at the end. It has impact in the finale.

No doubt his appearance is funny. All three of them are pretty humorous. I think I described them as misfits before, and I stick with that label. They're characters, positions, aspirations, clothes, and manner all contradict each other. It makes them a little funny in our eyes, but I think it also humanizes them in a way. Even though all the characteristics Chekhov gives them are pretty stereotypical, the odd combination of them in each character makes them unique. And, as Chekhov adds each characteristic, one by one, we move from a humorous sketch of misfits to a poignant ending of individual desire thwarted.

Exactly, I agree with these observations and this repeats somewhat what I said above about the ending becoming poignant, as well as more meaningful to us.

There isn't any rush to post here, but what are you going to do for the L thread? Are you going to do another story (as labor-intensive as that is)?

It has been a tricky month with the new forum 'updates', my own working on my new computer to taylor it to my needs, also adjusting to a new Window's Version, etc. I also have had some health issues I am working out with the drugstore and dr's office so this has broken up my time, taken away my full concentration.

I think it is the same as in here concerning the Lawrence story. We won't be done by the end of the month - does it matter if we always adhere to that monthly start? I probably have not even gotten half way through the current story. I will try and post some more text today; however with the avy glinch it deferred us from the last bit I posted. I can repost that since I don't think we fully discussed it, but I will check.

I think to begin another story it will be well into the month, before that happens. As far as continuing; yes, we will go onto a new story when done this current one. There are still many I have in mind. L was quite a prolithic author, you know. Some of the best stories are yet to come.

Well that certainly trumps LitNet. Hopefully it went well.

Yes, it does indeed - in fact, no matter what I would have planned if they said I was going to see my grandbaby I would drop it immediately. She now takes precedent over all other things in my life. I adore her so much. The visit was wonderful - what fun laying on the floor and playing with her on her little blanket - she kept grabbing my face - tell me one does not feel total pure love? I did not know being a grannie would be this wonderful!

The end of next week is the earliest we could start, I think. Most likely, it will be the following week. We still have two more sections in this story left, then we have to decide on the next story, then I have to post an introduction. All this will take a while. Plus, I'd like to look into the Winter's Tale thread again. It appears they finally started Act IV.

No rush, Quark, sounds good to me. *sigh* another thread I feel guilty about...Shakespeare...I knew that play and yet the discussion seems to wane too much, much of my own doing; so now you say it has picked up? I will have to check in. I think that play is complicated, but then all of Sh's work is that.

Here's more of the story. The tramp begins to explain his dreams to the constables:

Thanks for posting this. I will look it over today or tomorrow.

I'll post the constables reaction and the conclusion of the story in the next chunk.[/QUOTE]

Oh, good - then we will be near the end, not that I did not like the story; I did like it very much - just been such a hectic month.

[Quark]

It has been a tricky month

Yes, it's been an erratic few weeks recently. DM is the only person who's been around consistently. I wonder if she's starting the Poe thread just to get away from our weird schedules.

I think it is the same as in here concerning the Lawrence story.

Yeah, there's still a bit left of the story. It's good to know another story is in the works, though.

I did not know being a grannie would be this wonderful!

I did see the granddaughter pictures on your user page: very cute.

another thread I feel guilty about...Shakespeare...I knew that play and yet the discussion seems to wane too much, much of my own doing; so now you say it has picked up?

A few days ago Scher put up Act IV for discussion, but I didn't notice until yesterday. I wouldn't rush over immediately, though. I don't know if anyone is still taking part in the discussion. It might just be dead at this point.

[Janine]

Yes, it's been an erratic few weeks recently. DM is the only person who's been around consistently. I wonder if she's starting the Poe thread just to get away from our weird schedules.

Yeah, really... and DM has started a number of social groups, as well. I joined some of them; but admit that consistently, I don't know if I will be able to keep up with everything all the time; other things in life do beckon to me. It has been a weird month actually for me, with setting up the new computer; still looking into needed software, drivers online to support my older hardware. Also, the month seemed to fly by with erratic action on here -think many people are getting ready for school and that has taken it's toll on long attention spans; also August is often vacation month and slow...I would think it the same with you - having the big appartment move to contend with. It all could not really be helped. Glad at least this Chekhov story was a short one. That reminds me; I must burn your and Virgil's last CD, so I can mail off your Chekhov set; you will enjoy it. I owe you one for the great little book!

Yeah, there's still a bit left of the story. It's good to know another story is in the works, though.

Yes, and we are slowly but surely getting there. It will be fine if it runs into the next month. We can speed it up a bit and maybe start a new one second week into the month - I can pick another shorter one for the remainder of Sept. Sept will probably be a slow month also with classes starting up.

I did see the granddaughter pictures on your user page: very cute.

Aww...thanks for looking, Quark. We sure do think she is cute also. I took more photos on Sunday and will try and put them into the computer today. Maybe eventually I will rotate those in my page - you know how grandma's are - they can't stop bragging.

A few days ago Scher put up Act IV for discussion, but I didn't notice until yesterday. I wouldn't rush over immediately, though. I don't know if anyone is still taking part in the discussion. It might just be dead at this point.[/QUOTE]

Well, glad she posted it, but don't know how much response there will be, since now all Shakespeare enthusiasts seem to be into the next play, which I believe it "The Merry Wives of Windsor" - I should just pick up there and forget about WT, or briefly comment on it (in summary) since I would like to read TMWOW...never read that particular play before; so it should be interesting.

[Dark Muse]

Yes, it's been an erratic few weeks recently. DM is the only person who's been around consistently. I wonder if she's starting the Poe thread just to get away from our weird schedules.

Haha, I promoise I did not do it becasue of you guys. Just wait tell I start school again which will be soon. I will not be around as much as I have been over the summer.

[Quark]

[QUOTE=Janine;617051]Yeah, really... and DM has started a number of social groups, as well. I joined some of them; but admit that consistently, I don't know if I will be able to keep up with everything all the time; other things in life do beckon to me. It has been a weird month actually for me, with setting up the new computer; still looking into needed software, drivers online to support my older hardware. Also, the month seemed to fly by with erratic action on here -think many people are getting ready for school and that has taken it's toll on long attention spans; also August is often vacation month and slow...I would think it the same with you - having the big appartment move to contend with. It all could not really be helped. Glad at least this Chekhov story was a short one. That reminds me;

I must burn your and Virgil's last CD, so I can mail off your Chekhov set

If you would stop bringing it up I might forget about it, but every so often you mention those CD sets and I think, "Oh yeah, what's up with that?"

I can pick another shorter one for the remainder of Sept. Sept will probably be a slow month also with classes starting up.

The length of the story doesn't matter so much to me. It's the activity of the thread I'm worried about. It seems like when you guys really get going I fall behind. Of course, I can't ask anyone not to post. It's just that I may not be able to keep up--which wouldn't be the end of the world, obviously. In fact, I think I'm only really needed when the thread isn't doing well. When it is working well, I'd be getting in the way more then helping.

Shakespeare enthusiasts seem to be into the next play, which I believe it "The Merry Wives of Windsor"

Wow, that play actually won the poll? Curiosity must have gotten the better of everyone. I read part of the play, but I couldn't make it past Act III. I seemed a little pointless to me. It's droll, if you like droll, but little else.