Truth never fully shows its face.

[NikolaiI]

Well, you have derailed into the problem of evil, and I'll address that if you wish to discuss it...

The thing is, the most fundamental part of it, is the existence of God. God created everything, including reality, and then...He said this. He tells us, I am the creator. But we, you, doubt Him, because you do not see Him, and because the world is not perfect. You desire that God will solve the problems of humanity, as you listed, the desires to rape, torture, commit paedophilia, murder, maim and start wars. Now, feeling injustice that these exist in the world is a good thing. But you say that God cannot exist because they do, this is not logical or true. God is defined as the source of all that exists. Is existence a good or bad thing? Well, since goodness exists within existence, but also evil, existence is good and bad. Anyway you must understand that God is not bad, God is infinitely powerful, and He is infinitely good. You do not understand this, but it might help to think of the idea that God is love. The idea here is that if we serve love, it will be good: we will help ourselves, we will help others. Actually, we will evolve. Someone posted a link to Kabbalah.info on here somewhere, although strangely I can't find it-- anyway, there was one point in that website that made a lot of sense to me; that every being that exists is always being pressured to become something higher. Or something like that...I could have it a bit wrong.

Anyway, I would be interested in knowing where you draw the line between what exists and what doesn't. The mind is an unquantifiable power, for example, but you can see the effects of the mind, of consciousness. The reason I am really trying to reach you on this matter is because this is really true: the power exists, and the truth is there. Perhaps it is beyond your current consciousness: the consciousness we have is created by our activities, all sorts of things like that. God is everywhere it is true, but we may need to go to a Buddhist monastery or a Hindu temple to see and learn about God. But what I am trying to express, ultimately, is a very important idea, a very important message. You say that God does not exist, but as soon as you realize that God does; then you will understand that humanity is a blinking light, it is fading; God's power is real, and what is life but the remembrance of it? God is everywhere and every being is in God. You say that God doesn't exist, because you think He doesn't associate with us; but He does, in the form of His words and teachings: this is Love. There is no pain or suffering because ultimately Humanity doesn't exist, and everything works for God. What are we becoming but higher beings?-- if we live for God, and worship Him. Of course, we are covered by the material elements, but this is the gist of the truth of reality. Look forward to hearing your-- hopefully not a one-lined-- response.

[The Atheist]

But we, you, doubt Him, because you do not see Him, and because the world is not perfect.

No, that's wrong on both fronts. I don't need to see gamma rays to know they exist and I'm not an atheist because the world isn't perfect. I'm an atheist because god is a human construct easily explained by history and man's own nature, while there isn't a shred of believable evidence for any god's existence. Dawkins uses the nice analogy that everyone is an atheist regarding at least some gods and most people all but one. Personally, I'm happy to state that Osiris, Thor, Zeus and YHWH are all imaginary.

You desire that God will solve the problems of humanity, as you listed, the desires to rape, torture, commit paedophilia, murder, maim and start wars.

Not at all - I have no desire for any god to fix them, I'd like humans to fix them.

Now, feeling injustice that these exist in the world is a good thing. But you say that God cannot exist because they do, this is not logical or true.

Nope, wrong again. I was not saying he can't exist because of those things, I was asking how you personally claim god is infinitely good when he has created so many bad things.

God is defined as the source of all that exists. Is existence a good or bad thing? Well, since goodness exists within existence, but also evil, existence is good and bad. Anyway you must understand that God is not bad, God is infinitely powerful, and He is infinitely good.

Just like that.

You do not understand this, but it might help to think of the idea that God is love. The idea here is that if we serve love, it will be good: we will help ourselves, we will help others. Actually, we will evolve.

Same applies to love. If god is love, why create hate?

(Evolution isn't contingent upon altruism - quite the opposite in fact)

Anyway, I would be interested in knowing where you draw the line between what exists and what doesn't.

That's more like it. The line is simple - things which are able to be rationally explained using physics and mathematics can be considered to exist, others, not so much.

The mind is an unquantifiable power, for example, but you can see the effects of the mind, of consciousness.

Wrong again, sorry. We can absolutely see the workings of consciousness using tools like MRI and EEG. We can see which parts of the brain work during which thoughts and measure the electrical and chemical outputs of the brain. That's pretty clearly measuring conscious thought.

God is everywhere it is true, but we may need to go to a Buddhist monastery or a Hindu temple to see and learn about God.

I must say that I find the idea of finding god at a Buddhist temple quite amusing. You do know that Buddhists are atheists?

[NikolaiI]

I must say that I find the idea of finding god at a Buddhist temple quite amusing. You do know that Buddhists are atheists?

Buddhists are not atheists-- if you are interested, you should read the introduction by a prominent Buddhist of Thomas Merton's book, Contemplative Prayer. It will help to assuage you of the idea that Buddhists are atheists.

[The Atheist]

Buddhists are not atheists-- if you are interested, you should read the introduction by a prominent Buddhist of Thomas Merton's book, Contemplative Prayer. It will help to assuage you of the idea that Buddhists are atheists.

I live 200m from the largest Buddhist temple in Australasia and know a large number of Buddhists. They are all atheists. I'm sure some Buddhists aren't, but the vast majority are - Buddha was a man, not a god.

[Mr. Vandemar]

Whatever you believe in can be stripped down to a subjective belief which will usually appeal to your fears and insecurities about the nothingness, the lonliness, and the meaninglessness of it all.

I think if you think about that long enough you can discover that both of you are right. Why shouldn't the Atheist (not just the member) be as correct as the Christian? Or the Muslim or the Jew? I have thought about that question very much and I've come to the conclusion that all contain valuable lessons regarding spirituality and philosophy. I have begun to delve into the various religions of the world and I respect all of them. You could call me a "multi-faceted" Catholic. I am primarily Catholic because of my upbringing, but I borrow aspects of other religions because of my respect and awe for them.

Back to the subject: In your reality, what you think is the truth because you think it is. Since our consciousness defines our reality and our consciousness is completely isolated; none of us can assist the other in discovering one another's reality and thus CANNOT discover and believe what the other sees to be truth. Perhaps by coincidence of exposure we may have relating beliefs, but they cannot be exactly the same because we can never understand the other persons!


Now with that quote, I only meant for you to apply the beginning. I don't mean the part with "about the nothingness, the lonliness, and the meaninglessness of it all." because that reflects blazeofglory's own subjective belief. The beginning I see to be true, but not necessarily only "fears and insecurities" but many other things that demonstrate our personalities (not necessarily ones with such negative connotations).

[NikolaiI]

I live 200m from the largest Buddhist temple in Australasia and know a large number of Buddhists. They are all atheists. I'm sure some Buddhists aren't, but the vast majority are - Buddha was a man, not a god.

Buddha was not a man. It is Buddhist belief that Buddha incarnated from one of the highest heavens, with the goal of preaching. There were great signs at the Buddha's birth, and he was known as a child either to be a great king, or a great enlightening being. None of this is the same as atheism.

Buddha is actually a relative term-- Buddha is like God. The body of Buddha contains infinite beings; the body of Buddha contains creation, it is relative because of our relation to it. Our own bodies are exactly like the body of the Buddha, or at least have the capacity to become like that: full of bliss and knowledge. At least, in the spiritual world-- on the Other Shore, in the Pure Land, everything is like that-- bliss and knowledge. And if we were enlightened, we would see that, that our bodies are made up of Buddhas and Buddha lands, just as we fit into the cosmic cycle of greater beings; Buddha, Krishna.

[mazHur]

Buddha was not a man. It is Buddhist belief that Buddha incarnated from one of the highest heavens, with the goal of preaching. There were great signs at the Buddha's birth, and he was known as a child either to be a great king, or a great enlightening being. None of this is the same as atheism.

Buddha is actually a relative term-- Buddha is like God. The body of Buddha contains infinite beings; the body of Buddha contains creation, it is relative because of our relation to it. Our own bodies are exactly like the body of the Buddha, or at least have the capacity to become like that: full of bliss and knowledge. At least, in the spiritual world-- on the Other Shore, in the Pure Land, everything is like that-- bliss and knowledge. And if we were enlightened, we would see that, that our bodies are made up of Buddhas and Buddha lands, just as we fit into the cosmic cycle of greater beings; Buddha, Krishna.

Well, there is no evidence to substantiate Buddha being a God. If he was a god then where is he now?? Can a god die?
Buddha did not believe in God...

[jgweed]

Life is not a illusion. Life is. And it is what it is every minute, every hour, every day, every week, month and year for every one of us. To prune a tree, kiss your baby, take the bus to work, read Shakespeare, repair a motor, is to prove life real.

What is an illusion is to demand of life that it has some ultimate meaning that one can discover. Or perhaps and more properly speaking, to ask it is a delusion.

[mazHur]

Buddha was not a man. It is Buddhist belief that Buddha incarnated from one of the highest heavens, with the goal of preaching. There were great signs at the Buddha's birth, and he was known as a child either to be a great king, or a great enlightening being. None of this is the same as atheism.

Buddha is actually a relative term-- Buddha is like God. The body of Buddha contains infinite beings; the body of Buddha contains creation, it is relative because of our relation to it. Our own bodies are exactly like the body of the Buddha, or at least have the capacity to become like that: full of bliss and knowledge. At least, in the spiritual world-- on the Other Shore, in the Pure Land, everything is like that-- bliss and knowledge. And if we were enlightened, we would see that, that our bodies are made up of Buddhas and Buddha lands, just as we fit into the cosmic cycle of greater beings; Buddha, Krishna.

Life is not a illusion. Life is. And it is what it is every minute, every hour, every day, every week, month and year for every one of us. To prune a tree, kiss your baby, take the bus to work, read Shakespeare, repair a motor, is to prove life real.

What is an illusion is to demand of life that it has some ultimate meaning that one can discover. Or perhaps and more properly speaking, to ask it is a delusion.

Life is like a dream within a dream (Poe)

Stars are not like what they appear to be,,,they are outrightly deceiving you

love, hope, kiss, touch, hate, money are all illusion ,,,,they are not what they appear to be at a instance in time,,,,they change and never reamin the same
this is what you find in sleight of hand and trickery,,,all is illusion in this world ,,,even this world is an illusion,,,,man is made to suffer and he's...

[The Atheist]

Life is not a illusion. Life is. And it is what it is every minute, every hour, every day, every week, month and year for every one of us. To prune a tree, kiss your baby, take the bus to work, read Shakespeare, repair a motor, is to prove life real.

What is an illusion is to demand of life that it has some ultimate meaning that one can discover. Or perhaps and more properly speaking, to ask it is a delusion.

Can I just agree 1000% with that?

Monty Python did it all so well.

Buddha was not a man. It is Buddhist belief that Buddha incarnated from one of the highest heavens, with the goal of preaching. There were great signs at the Buddha's birth, and he was known as a child either to be a great king, or a great enlightening being. None of this is the same as atheism.

No, I'm sorry, but you have it completely wrong. Start with the basics at Wikipedia. Gautama Buddha was a real person who died a human death. Buddha has some god-like traits [apparently], but he is certainly not a god. Reincarnation is something else I don't believe in, but it has no relationship to any god - Buddhism is a personal belief system revolving around human life and spiritual growth and reincarnation; no gods.

[Mr. Vandemar]

Why don't you believe in reincarnation? How do you know that your character is not exactly the same as someone else before you? It is not your consciousness that transcends, it is merely your character. Besides, with billions of people alive or dead, why would it be so odd to assume that there could have been someone before you with your personality (in deep levels, not in such that one would be graded [b]{edit}[/] by pure coincidence?

And what with life not being an illusion: sure it's not an illusion. What is an illusion is everything contained in life. "Je pense donc je suis!" I think therefore I am. The only thing we are absolutely certain of is that we are thinking (which is a demonstration of life) therefore life must be existent! But that does not necessarily mean that pruning a tree is reality...

[caddy_caddy]

God is the Absolute Truth .
The relative truth is what u speak of; it is all of us not me or u .

[jgweed]

...and if Absolute Truth does not exist, what then?

[Scheherazade]

Then... nothing!

Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

[caddy_caddy]

the relative exists because the absolute exists;
the law of contradiction!
I think it is logical.
Moreover I agree with sherazad; do u think that life is just a tale told by an idiot and full of sound and fury, signifying nothing???