D.H. Lawrence's Short Stories Thread

[Quark]

And Mrs. Thomas was sewing, not reading, Quark.

Something in his (Edward Severn's) lithe, vigorous balance, so alert and white, and independent, caused Mrs. Thomas to glance at him from her sewing.

Mrs. Thomas sat at the table, near him, sewing.

Severn listened to the snap of her needle....

I think it would have been a good idea to have the shifting loyalties coincide with sewing and reading, but they don't. At least not yet. Or, maybe Quark meant Mrs. Thomas is baiting Edward when she's sewing and baiting her husband when she's reading. I can see that. Is that what you mean, Quark, because if it is, then I think it holds up. I have to look through the story, but I think so.

I'll explain it better this time. Sometimes when I write these posts I'm doing it in between other things I'm trying to do. I have to speed through some idea that I'm sure really isn't clear and needs much support, but I don't have the time to write a long post. Now that I'm free for a couple hours I can say this a bit better.

First, I should point out that she is reading later on when her husband enters the room. Lawrence sneaks this detail in. It's easy to miss, but it's there. It's also an important signal to the reader of Gertie's allegiance--that's probably a poor word, but I think everyone knows what I mean. Gertie shifts between two activities which correspond to each relationship she has. Initially, before the husband walks into the scene Gertie indicates to Severn that she's uncomfortable with her relationship toward Severn. She has qualms about entertaining another man when she's already married. Lawrence has Gertie stitch to show the wife thinking about her husband. I hope Janine doesn't mind, but to make this point I have to post a section of the story. Here's the part with her stitching:

She made a helpless gesture with her hand. He was watching her closely. She seemed to him pathetically helpless and bewildered; she was eight years older than he. He smiled in a strange, alert fashion, like a man who feels in jeopardy. She bent over her work, stitching nervously. There was a silence in which neither of them could breathe freely.

Presently a bigger flash than usual whitened through the yellow lamplight. Both glanced at the window, then at each other. For a moment it was a look of greeting; then his eyes dilated to a smile, wide with recklessness. He felt her waver, lose her composure, become incoherent. Seeing the faint helplessness of coming tears, he felt his heart thud to a crisis. She had her face at her sewing.

Severn sank in his chair, half suffocated by the beating of his heart. Yet, time after time, as the flashes came, they looked at each other, till in the end they both were panting, and afraid, not of the lightning but of themselves and of each other.

Not only does Lawrence connect the sewing with Gertie's marrital thoughts, but the action itself has long been considered a symbol for faithfulness and domesticity (think of Penelope at the loom in the Odyssey).

Eventually, though, the perspective changes. We see the room from the husband's view, and what he sees are two people reading. The reading shows their solidarity against him, and it makes him feel like an outsider.

He did not speak to Severn nor Severn to him. Although as a rule the two men were very friendly, there came these times when, for no reason whatever, they were sullenly hostile. Thomas sat down heavily, and reached his bottle of beer. His hands were thick, and in their movement rudimentary. Severn watched the thick fingers grasp the drinking-glass as if it were a treacherous enemy.

"Have you had supper, Gertie?" he asked, in tones that sounded like an insult. He could not bear that these two should sit reading as if he did not exist.

"Yes," she replied, looking up at him in impatient surprise. "It's late enough." Then she buried herself again in her book.

Severn ducked low and grinned. Thomas swallowed a mouthful of beer.

"I wish you could answer my questions, Gertie, without superfluous detail," he said nastily, thrusting out his chin at her as if cross-examining.

"Oh," she said indifferently, not looking up. "Wasn't my answer right, then?"

I brought this up because we see Severn reading in the part that Janine quoted.

"Yet all the storms are a fair way off. Not one near enough to touch us."

I certainly don't see that as sexual tension, but as foreshadowing of the fight to come.

That is foreshadowing for the fight. Also, we should remember that there are two storms. One for Severn and the husband, and the other is for Gertie and Kate.

[Janine]

Antiquarian,
To use quotes just do the following: place the word quote between two of these brackets [ ] preceeding the quoted text and /quote in the same brackets at the end of the quote (to end it). In the advanced menu, there is an icon at the top, that will do this for you automatically, if you first highlight the text you want quoted and then click on that icon. The icon looks like a piece of paper with writing on it. On my screen it is the one next to the envelop and the #. Now if you want to quote several people, you can copy and past their words right from their post; if you scroll down from this window (advanced) you will see their posts (from this page only.) If you have to go back to another page, then you have to copy and past into an offline word program and transport later, back to this window. I do that all the time. Then after, copying you just add the quote in brackets at the beginning and the end or use the icon in the menu (that makes it faster and easier).

This applies to Everyone: If you want to argue your case, you should back it up with text or even commentary. If you just want to bicker and disagree all the time, there is a big difference; look up the definitions online and you will see what I am getting at. Not long ago, Virgil said maybe we should just stick to one post for each individual opinion or argument on a point. That might be a good idea. We don't all have to all agree that there is or isn't sexual tension between Edward and Gertie; this is being too drawn out and keeping us from moving onward with the story. In the end, it is all personal opinion/interpretation; afterall, we are dealing with human beings interpretting other human beings; what would one expect? People are not easy to interpret. Yes, it would be dull, if there was no debate, but the debate does not have to dominate this discussion either; and that is what has been happening lately. It just plain gets tiresome after awhile. It is only the 10th of the month and I think we are pacing well with the text I posted so far. If you want I can post it more quickly. I may post more tonight.

I still do want to post some thoughts on what everyone is referring to as the 'sexual tension' part; but will wait till we get to that part of the text, because I really have not backed up my opinion. If you want to address it further, when we get to that part of the story, that is fine; but to go on about it for 3 or 4 pages is silly, and we won't change opinions, if they are set. The commentator I read, said that this is another example of a story by Lawrence, where there is a rival and three people are involved. I was therefore, assuming he meant the three main characters. I will post more on this later. It is dinnertime. Maybe we are getting hung up on the idea of 'sexual' tension. We could tone that down to say 'attraction', but not true 'sexual' attraction between them. I will have to re-read the text to see if that is more feasible. I am trying to be fair. It is not easy keeping these threads running smoothly.

[Scheherazade]

To quote more than one messages in your post:

Click the icon on each of the posts you want to quote, it looks like this if you've clicked it, then click Post Reply button, they show up automatically in text field.

I would like to remind everyone that this thread -nor any others on the Forum- is under the sole control of any one person or group. What is more, these discussions are not class lectures: each user is free to post in the manner and pace it suits them (as long as they are not breaking any Forum Rules).

Please do not try to impose your own personal wishes or preferences on others and respect their right to discuss any points they would like to deal with.

If you do not care about any points made, please also feel free to ignore them.

[Janine]

To quote more than one messages in your post:

Click the icon on each of the posts you want to quote, it looks like this if you've clicked it, then click Post Reply button, they show up automatically in text field.

Scheherazade, my icon does not look like that, exactly. It is more like an piece of yellow paper with a little tail at the bottom and looks like text lines on the surface. Where did you find those icons? Mine is the fourth from the end (right side) at the top of my menu.

[Scheherazade]

They appear at the right bottom corner of each post (not on the Advanced Reply page).

[Janine]

They appear at the right bottom corner of each post (not on the Advanced Reply page).

Thanks, I have never noticed that on here. That will be a real time-saver.

[Virgil]

Now, I suppose I'm being disagreeable, but I don't see sexual tension between Edward and Gertie. I do think she definitely wants to lure him into her trap, and in a way she does, when she gets him to carry down Kate's traveling trunk or box or whatever it is, but I don't see any interest on Edward's part. Just the opposite, in fact.

First of all it's not being disagreeable if you disagree. That's ok. You don't need to apologize.

I got the idea that Gertie was taunting his because Kate had shown an interest in him, but that Edward was interested in neither Kate nor Gertie.

Heck, I admit I could be wrong, but I just don't see it now. Don't feel it when I read the story, either

I think the story is somewhat flawed in that Lawrence is not clear. I frankly see no point to the opening scene when Severn walks in the door, the garden of eden scene, and the sitting room scene. They are all unfocused, though individually well written. There are too many extraneous detals that can lead a reader into a direction but frankly undeveloped. Is there sexual tension? I can see how one can read it and how one cannot. I think Lawrence is to blame. In all fairness to Lawwrence, this story was only published posthumously.

I was just using a quote from the text to illustarte what I think is an example of sexual tension within the story between Severn and Mrs. Thomas.

It is hard to effectively discuss ideas within a story if one can only go in chronolgicial order without using context within the story from elsewhere to help support a point.

I tend to read the story as having sexual tension too. Without the sexual tension it becomes unclear as to why Severn and Mr. Thomas fight. I tend to see the underlying fight as motivated by subconscious conflicts. But is there in the text? Anti may be right. We may be back filling that information. I don't think Lawrence did a good job here.

To me, that's just foreshadowing of the fight that's to come, not indicative of sexual tension of any kind. I don't think this story's sexual at all. Edit: I do see a little sexual tension later, but not in the part we're discussing right now.

Not sexual at all? Hmm, I think at the risk of me seeing phallices everywhere I have to believe there are sexual references.

Virgil and his phallic symbols have influenced people too much. LOL

Perhaps I have. It must be my old age and how I've sublimated all sorts of desires that I now see in texts.

I've already jumped ahead too much. I'm sorry, Janine. See? I'm nervous and edgy, but feeling no sexual tension. LOL Far from it.

I'm old, what's your excuse. What's wrong with pulling in a detail from another part of the story if it helps explain a point on hand? It's ok. I don't ant to get too structured here. It's a discussion.

Edit - How did those quotes get in my post? I don't even know how to put two in or I would have done so. LOL

If you want to quote a post, just hit the post quote at the bottom and it comes up with the post written in your text box already in quotes. Just delete out what is extraneous. If you wish to quote more than one post at a time, then hit the " (italics) on the bottom of the first post and hit the Quote on the second. You can keep hitting the italics to include as many posts as you wish; just click the quote as the final post you wish to include. I hope that made sense. Play around with it Anti, you'll get the hang of it.

I am glad to see you here, Virgil. I wondered if you read my post #2294.

I did read it. There was nothing for me to comment on one way or the other. I'll go back and recheck.

As to whether there is is sexual tension, undercurrent, or what ever you want to call, I have to take the description of the iris's scent as "brutal" and "carnal" as being projected in the scenes where subconscious dynamics are going on. There are two planes I think that Lawrence is after. If there is no sexual suggestion, I fail to see the significance of the scenes that lead to the fight.

[Janine]

As to whether there is is sexual tension, undercurrent, or what ever you want to call, I have to take the description of the iris's scent as "brutal" and "carnal" as being projected in the scenes where subconscious dynamics are going on. There are two planes I think that Lawrence is after. If there is no sexual suggestion, I fail to see the significance of the scenes that lead to the fight.

Virgil, I do totally agree with that. There would be no point in the ending of the story. The three main characters, Severn, Mrs. Thomas and Mr. Thomas all make up this triangle and set up this tension of a rival. We have seen this in other stories - even the last we read - in that there were 2 women and one man, even though we only saw one of the woman in the story; we felt the existence of the other - both competing for the man. In "Two Blue Birds" there was a situation of rivals with the two women again, one man. In "The Blind Man" there were two men in rivalry to the wife. Even though that one does not have sexual tension, there is rivalry and at the ending there is a sort of bonding between the two men, more so of course for Maurice than for Bertie.

I have to shut down - thunder and lightening.

Edit:I was able to come back online and am editing now. I am going to post the next part of the text with some comments I made. Hope everyone can add to them.


Next Part of Text:

"Will you clear baby's things away?" she said, in the contemptuous tone of a hostile woman. Without answering, and in her superb, unhastening way, Kate began to gather up the small garments. Both women were aware of the observant, white figure of the man standing on the hearth. Severn balanced with a fine, easy poise, and smiled to himself, exulting a little to see the two women in this state of hostility. Kate moved about with bowed defiant head. Severn watched her curiously; he could not understand her. And she was leaving to-morrow. When she had gone out of the room, he remained still standing, thinking. Something in his lithe, vigorous balance, so alert, and white, and independent, caused Mrs. Thomas to glance at him from her sewing.

I find these two decriptive phrases of interest - to describe Kate - (silently) she had a “superb, unhastening way”, and this one to describe Mrs. Thomas -speaking with the “contemptuous tone of a hostile woman” to Kate. Severn is noticed by each of the women, as the “observant, white figure”. Here again, the thought of him as a 'white' figure seems to be quite significant. It is also pointed out that Severn is “exulting a little to see the two woman in this state of hostility.” I was curious about the line “he could not understand her” in reference to Kate and her leaving. Seems when she leaves the room he is still pondering about it. Again his 'whiteness' is noticed, alone now by Mrs.Thomas in that last line, along with his 'independent way, his lithe, alert vigorous balance.'

I’ll let the blinds down," he said, becoming aware that he was attracting attention.

"Thank you," she replied conventionally.

He let the lattice blinds down, then flung himself into his chair.

Here the text points out that he is aware that he is attracting her attention.

Mrs. Thomas sat at the table, near him, sewing. She was a good-looking woman, well made. She sat under the one light that was turned on. The lamp-shade was of red silk lined with yellow. She sat in the warm-gold light. There was established between the two a peculiar silence, like suspense, almost painful to each of them, yet which neither would break. Severn listened to the snap of her needle, looked from the movement of her hand to the window, where the lightning beat and fluttered through the lattice. The thunder was as yet far off.

Strange that the one light that is turned on is over Mrs. Thomas, also that it is described like the poppies – yellow and red - the poppies were gold-red. I would think this would indicate a relationship between the passion of red and the flowers to Mrs. Thomas; or suggest this idea. It goes on to saying it is a “warm-gold light”. Now between the two in the room is a “peculiar silence, like suspense, almost painful to each of them, yet which neither would break”. Kind of like the suspense of the impending storm and the tension that imparts to the scene.

"Look," he said, "at the lightning."

Mrs. Thomas started at the sound of his voice, and some of the colour went from her face. She turned to the window.

There, between the cracks of the Venetian blinds, came the white flare of lightning, then the dark. Several storms were in the sky. Scarcely had one sudden glare fluttered and palpitated out, than another covered the window with white. It dropped, and another flew up, beat like a moth for a moment, then vanished. Thunder met and overlapped; two battles were fought together in the sky.

Why is the color going from her face and why did she start at his voice? Was it only the thought of the storm or more than that? I also noticed that snap of her sewing; that too seems to indicate something like the click in the oil lamp did in the last story. Maybe the snap is something like the far off thunder; a hint of something to come; it is just a thought on my part.

I like the contrast of the lightening to the darkness. I also, love the way the two storms are described, or several storms, and the 'overlapping' in the last line, which indicates 'two battles', mimicking the two battles in the house and their overlapping. That is brilliantly done/written. I like thunderstorms and the tension they impart, but if not too severe. One has to admit they hold a certain curiousity and an energy and are sometimes very beautiful; like untamed nature and furry.

Interesting also, is the line "another covered the window with white"...again white seems to be emphasised; I wonder if Severn, being seen so 'white', is like the lightening and will be so, when his temper finally flairs and he fights back at the husband. It is like the energy of a storm being released in that moment of the confrontation that will come; like lightening which is electricity being discharged. Also, as in "The Prussian Officer" there was a 'snap' or 'click' and then the violent action occured. This is why I thought of that snap of Mrs. Thomas' sewing and thought it might relate later to the fact that Severn himself snaps and looses control.

[Dark Muse]

I find these two decriptive phrases of interest - to describe Kate - (silently) she had a “superb, unhastening way”, and this one to describe Mrs. Thomas -speaking with the “contemptuous tone of a hostile woman” to Kate. Severn is noticed by each of the women, as the “observant, white figure”. Here again, the thought of him as a 'white' figure seems to be quite significant. It is also pointed out that Severn is “exulting a little to see the two woman in this state of hostility.” I was curious about the line “he could not understand her” in reference to Kate and her leaving. Seems when she leaves the room he is still pondering about it. Again his 'whiteness' is noticed, alone now by Mrs.Thomas in that last line, along with his 'independent way, his lithe, alert vigorous balance.'

Me and Virgil have already sort of touched upon this, but I felt this scene between the two women was a sort of minor reflection on what is later to occur with Severn and Mr. Thomas. I think it is also an indication of Mrs. Thomas's jealously. In the presence of Severn the two women act hostile too each other, while it points how aware of his presence the women were.

I think perhaps in part Severn does not understand just why Kate is acting in such a stubborn way, when she knows that such is going to cost her job. And perhaps he just does not understand the reasons behind her behavior.

Strange that the one light that is turned on is over Mrs. Thomas, also that it is described like the poppies – yellow and red - the poppies were gold-red. I would think this would indicate a relationship between the passion of red and the flowers to Mrs. Thomas; or suggest this idea. It goes on to saying it is a “warm-gold light”. Now between the two in the room is a “peculiar silence, like suspense, almost painful to each of them, yet which neither would break”. Kind of like the suspense of the impending storm and the tension that imparts to the scene.

I think perhpas the light is turned upon her, to sort of put her in the spot light, as her figure is such a central figure, she seems to affect everything and everyone in the house, as in thier own way they all just sort of revolve around her. Her very pressence is enough to change the way others react to each other or to her.

Yes I think the red is meant to signify passion.

There was established between the two a peculiar silence, like suspense, almost painful to each of them, yet which neither would break.

This line does seem to signify that there is a tauntness within the air, that is just ready to snap at any moment and release itself.

Severn listened to the snap of her needle, looked from the movement of her hand to the window, where the lightning beat and fluttered through the lattice. The thunder was as yet far off.

I found this to be an odd description of the storm, as I do not know I can say I have ever found lignting to "flutter" Even through blinds, it usually comes in a flash. As well that idea of "fluttering" which is a gentle, graceful motion seems completely oppsisite to everything else within the story.

I wondered if there is menat to be some relation between the snap of the needle and the sound of the thunder.

It also seemed to me as if Severn was almost tuanting Mrs. Thomas in a way, as he constnatly keeps trying to draw her attention to the storm and telling her to look, when he knows she does not like it.

Why is the color going from her face and why did she start at his voice? Was it only the thought of the storm or more than that? I also noticed that snap of her sewing; that too seems to indicate something like the click in the oil lamp did in the last story. Maybe the snap is something like the far off thunder; a hint of something to come; it is just a thought on my part.

I thought it was becasue of the storm as well as perhaps she was startled to suddnely have that silence between them to be broken.

There, between the cracks of the Venetian blinds, came the white flare of lightning, then the dark. Several storms were in the sky. Scarcely had one sudden glare fluttered and palpitated out, than another covered the window with white. It dropped, and another flew up, beat like a moth for a moment, then vanished. Thunder met and overlapped; two battles were fought together in the sky.

I loved this passage. I find it interesting, that above it said the lightening was "fluttering" but now here it comes as a flare. I felt that the "several storms in the sky" were also the many different conflicts within the house, as really within the house no one is completely happy wich each other, and all of the characters have little conflicts among them.

With the rising power of the storm it also seems to be indicating that someting is about ready to just break, and unlesash itself. Things are building up to the point of climax, where something will have to give.

[Quark]

I wondered if there is menat to be some relation between the snap of the needle and the sound of the thunder.

I think there is. It scares the wife because it's a reminder her that her husband is about to come home and there will be a confrontation. The needlework is a similar symbol meant to indicate that she's thinking about her husband.

I don't find the story at all well crafted.

Is there sexual tension? I can see how one can read it and how one cannot. I think Lawrence is to blame. In all fairness to Lawwrence, this story was only published posthumously.

You guys are funny. Lawrence is being subtle, and that's the only way he could write about their relationship. If he gave it away and told us unequivocally whether Severn and Gertie wanted an affair, then the reader would have to take sides during the dispute at the end. It would become a matter of choosing between marriage and infidelity. Instead, Lawrence blurs their relationship and makes it about the characters' vague longings versus the husband's harsh uprightness. I think this is why Lawrence doesn't just come out and tell you what's going on between Gertie and Severn.


Oh, and Janine I wanted to repeat your question about Severn's white outline. Why does Lawrence draw so much attention to Severn's shirt?

[Quark]

Lawrence is telling us too much. He's giving us too much information. He's being heavy-handed in this story.

Wait, what? Didn't you just post this:

While I don't see any real sexual tension in the story, I do think there's supposed to be sexual tension. I suppose, as an editor, I'm a more demanding reader than most people are.

That made it sound like you were criticizing Lawrence for not making their relationship clear.

[Janine]

Me and Virgil have already sort of touched upon this, but I felt this scene between the two women was a sort of minor reflection on what is later to occur with Severn and Mr. Thomas. I think it is also an indication of Mrs. Thomas's jealously. In the presence of Severn the two women act hostile too each other, while it points how aware of his presence the women were.

I agree, Dark Muse. This also matches up to ideas, I just read about rivalry in these early stories; also about Lawrence and unacted on passions. I will have to post some more information on that later on since I am going out soon. I checked out several biography books that mention this story and the family Lawrence lived with in Croydon and used as the model for the story. One part clearly shows Lawrence's feelings for the two children but mostly for the baby featured in this story and the account is totally innocent and sweet. He wrote two sweet stories about babies and he loved these kids to death.

I think perhaps in part Severn does not understand just why Kate is acting in such a stubborn way, when she knows that such is going to cost her job. And perhaps he just does not understand the reasons behind her behavior.

That sounds logical to me.

I think perhaps the light is turned upon her, to sort of put her in the spot light, as her figure is such a central figure, she seems to affect everything and everyone in the house, as in thier own way they all just sort of revolve around her. Her very pressence is enough to change the way others react to each other or to her.

I agree - it puts her in the center of the two conflicts. This is a good comment on your part and observation. The light and the color is an interesting device to use at this particular time in the story with the flashing/flickering white light on the blinds just suggesting the coming storms.

Yes I think the red is meant to signify passion.

I do, too. And 'passion' comes in many forms and disquises and one need to determine his own idea of just what passion signifies.

This line does seem to signify that there is a tauntness within the air, that is just ready to snap at any moment and release itself.

I agree. Did you read "The Prussian Officer" , DM? Often Michael Black brings up that 'click' that occurs in that story, just prior to the outbreak of aggression or violence.

I found this to be an odd description of the storm, as I do not know I can say I have ever found lignting to "flutter" Even through blinds, it usually comes in a flash. As well that idea of "fluttering" which is a gentle, graceful motion seems completely oppsisite to everything else within the story.

I think it is perceived as a flutter because there are several storms so the lightening is overlapping. I have seen this happen before. Perhaps L is indicating that the storms approaching are gentle and graceful at first. It is later the real furry erupts as in the story.

I wondered if there is meant to be some relation between the snap of the needle and the sound of the thunder.

I think that is possible also, if heard far off.

It also seemed to me as if Severn was almost tuanting Mrs. Thomas in a way, as he constnatly keeps trying to draw her attention to the storm and telling her to look, when he knows she does not like it.

Teasing or taunting her playfully. It is like someone teasing about being afraid of a spider. I don't think he means it in a mean way at all. It indeed does draw attention to the storm, also foreshadowing the coming storm between the two men.

I thought it was because of the storm as well as perhaps she was startled to suddnely have that silence between them to be broken.

True - it could be part of each.

I loved this passage. I find it interesting, that above it said the lightening was "fluttering" but now here it comes as a flare. I felt that the "several storms in the sky" were also the many different conflicts within the house, as really within the house no one is completely happy wich each other, and all of the characters have little conflicts among them.

I loved that passage, too. Good observation, DM, and I think that is correct. It is true that no one seems truly happy; perhaps only the little child.

With the rising power of the storm it also seems to be indicating that someting is about ready to just break, and unlesash itself. Things are building up to the point of climax, where something will have to give.

I think that is correct and I think I said it also in my post, about the same way.


Sorry, I can't answer anymore posts now. I am going out. I am sure I won't be missed; I think I can answer some later on tonight.

I did read all of them; but I skimmed Quarks, sorry Mr. Q. I will have to put bits of Antiquarian's into an offline program, because to be quite honest, I can't make sense of it all without the quotes and with two edits, Anti. I am sorry about that. The bold is distracting as the main body of type - I guess those being your comments. Maybe if you email to a mod, she can help you find out how to solve this posting/quoting problem.
I often just take all posts offline and add my own quotes manually, like this [quote] at the beginning, and the second one, with the addition of the slash in front of the word, - like this /quote, but in brackets.

Quark, I will read your post better later on. Probably by then Virgil will arrive to post some comments, too. Be back later on.

[Janine]

That's fine with me. I have trouble making sense of posts that use the quote thing so I can see where the opposite would be true. I had a lot of trouble trying to quote one of Virgil's posts this morning, so I don't think I'll use that anymore.

I tend to write like an editor, not a reader, so many people, unless they write or edit, too, have a problem with my posts. Just like the term "set piece" the other day. I probably shouldn't have used that term except in work.

You don't have to answer mine if you're short on time or just don't want to. I won't be offended at all. It's just a casual discussion. I think you should only answer what you want to answer.

I'm going out tonight, too, so I won't be able to check until later.

I didn't say I would not answer it, Antiquarian. Your post was more complicated to answer than DM's and I have always tried to answer all or part of a person's post. I just need the time to place your post into my offline program and sort through what I wish to answer.

That is very true and you have emphasised if often; I don't have the expertise of being an editor or a writer, so I write my posts in a different style perhaps.

I don't even care to be a Lawrence 'scholar', but I have read much about this author; 3 biographies, many of the letters, and many commentaries about his various works and his stories; because that is pleasurable to me. When I don't know something, I try to research it, to find more insight into his intentions/his deeper meanings. That has always been my fascination with this author. To the best of my ability I try to share whatever additional information I find out about the story with all of you.

Enjoy your evening out! Must be cooler there now. It got some bit cooler here.

[Dark Muse]

I think there is. It scares the wife because it's a reminder her that her husband is about to come home and there will be a confrontation. The needlework is a similar symbol meant to indicate that she's thinking about her husband.

That is a good observation. Part of the tension in the air could relate to the ancipation of the return of Mr. Thomas, and her knowing that his coming will bring a confertation of some sort, as the needle work being a domestic activity and seen as a chore of a "good housewife" could indicate the husband.

Though It seems she really does not need to fear him as it seems she is the one who holds all the control, it could be she does not wish to have to have a confertation.

And though Severn and Mrs. Thomas do not acutally do anything, it could also be that they might feel "caught" at something becasue of the nature of thier thoughts, when he does "walk in on them"

Obviously, Edward and Gertie have never engaged in anything even remotely like a sexual or romantic affair, though the storm and their being shut up together seems to have affected them momentarily, especially Edward. But he doesn't like it. He seems appalled by the very idea.

I felt it was always a bit unclear just why Severn does seem to be so appalled by the idea. I cannot say I honestly felt it was because of any morality he felt in regards to engaging in an unfair, or any sort of fear of disloyalty toward Mr. Thomas. I just do not get that that is his reasoning for resistance.

But I wondered if it is the fact that he truly does not care for the kind of woman Mrs. Thomas is that repulses him at his physical attraction to her, or if in fact the idea of intimacy with women in general is repulsive to him and he is trying to suppress his natural urges.

[Janine]

That is a good observation. Part of the tension in the air could relate to the ancipation of the return of Mr. Thomas, and her knowing that his coming will bring a confertation of some sort, as the needle work being a domestic activity and seen as a chore of a "good housewife" could indicate the husband.

Though It seems she really does not need to fear him as it seems she is the one who holds all the control, it could be she does not wish to have to have a confertation.

And though Severn and Mrs. Thomas do not acutally do anything, it could also be that they might feel "caught" at something becasue of the nature of thier thoughts, when he does "walk in on them"

I would agree with all those thoughts, Dark Muse. I have to leave now to go out. Good job on both your posts! I will get to others later on.