D.H. Lawrence's Short Stories Thread

[Virgil]

Virgil, I will have to answer your long post tomorrow. I don't have I also found this incredible study and article from Assiut University which was a PDF but which I could print out. It is a long article but I noticed when printing it it does mention some of the short stories we recently discussed. I can't wait to read this study. It is quite long but worth printing out. Here is the link if you want to check it out, too:

http://docs.ksu.edu.sa/PDF/Articles51/Article510647.pdf

It begins:


This article should be quite interesting and revealing, as well. I really excited to find it. Dark Muse, this will probably interest you, also (thinking of your class), and any others who will find the time to read it.

I skimmed through this essay. The author is a "Dr" so I assume he's a PhD. But it's not that good really. Perhaps "good" is the wrong criteria. It's simple and not at a PhD level. It strikes me as undergraduate level. However, I bet most master's thesis are on this level. I don't want to brag, but my master's thesis was way better. Save your ink and paper Janine. Just skim through and jump to the Lawrence section.

[Janine]

I skimmed through this essay. The author is a "Dr" so I assume he's a PhD. But it's not that good really. Perhaps "good" is the wrong criteria. It's simple and not at a PhD level. It strikes me as undergraduate level. However, I bet most master's thesis are on this level. I don't want to brag, but my master's thesis was way better. Save your ink and paper Janine. Just skim through and jump to the Lawrence section.

Yeah Yeah, I know....I was reading it last night and truthfully I didn't understand a lot of it. I would have to look a lot of the terms he is using up and then I was still not sure what his conclusions were on Woolf or Lawrence, were you.

Hey, Virgil, I thought you would address my last post and laugh your head off ....you know - 'Lawrence, the cross-dresser'...you are really slipping here. I don't have the nerve to post my other idea. but he may have had to wear dresses for comfort, you know. I can't believe I am writing all this. I must be getting like you.

[Virgil]

Yeah Yeah, I know....I was reading it last night and truthfully I didn't understand a lot of it. I would have to look a lot of the terms he is using up and then I was still not sure what his conclusions were on Woolf or Lawrence, were you.

Hey, Virgil, I thought you would address my last post and laugh your head off ....you know - 'Lawrence, the cross-dresser'...you are really slipping here. I don't have the nerve to post my other idea. but he may have had to wear dresses for comfort, you know. I can't believe I am writing all this. I must be getting like you.

Yes your other idea was bad. Well there are rumors he was gay, so why not start a cross dressing rumor.

[Quark]

I knew that! I just mean 'logically', why would the secretary pick the same color dress, knowing hers will appear to be inferior to the wife's expensive one? Is it the only nice dress she owns? I wondered about whether Lawrence just ignored realism here and contrived to have them mimic the two bluebirds;

I don't know if there's any hidden meaning behind that. I think you're right when you say that it's just contrived. L was probably just looking for a quick way to make the parallel clearer, and he stumbled into this idea for the two dresses.

where have you been in the Chekhov thread, anyway....off with the new "Thus Spoke Z" thread? eh,

Oh, please. It's not like I've said anything substantial in the Nietzsche thread. I try to stop in and prod people with some questions, but I'm not really a part of the conversation. I'm not even sure whether there is a conversation going in there yet. I just try to support these threads that really get into a book or author.

Nor is the conversation starting to flag, whatever that means.

You've never heard flag used as a verb? When something is losing strength or vigor it's referred to as flagging.

If you had gone in there today, you might have noticed that I posted a fairly long post.....

You must have posted that when I was at the book store or something because I didn't see your post until you mentioned it. I can't respond to everything that was in it yet because I've promised to post and talk about the next section of the story first.

I was reading the story for the FOURTH time last night....YES, the 4th!...I am not kidding.

I think I may have matched you this month on story rereads. I've read up-and-down, back-and-forth every part of "Two Blue Birds."

[Janine]

Yes your other idea was bad. Well there are rumors he was gay, so why not start a cross dressing rumor.

You know 'cross-dressers' usually are straight. he might have been misunderstood. He sure liked those bright colored stockings in WIL and he loved for Frieda to wear them - they were thick and truly ugly, but something about them really turned him on....strange.

[Quark]

He sure liked those bright colored stockings in WIL and he loved for Frieda to wear them - they were thick and truly ugly, but something about them really turned him on....strange.

Can we get a picture? I mean of the ugly stockings, not Lawrence turned on.

[Janine]

Can we get a picture? I mean of the ugly stockings,...

I will see what I can come up with. I have seen photos in my books, of Frieda wearing those lovely 'attractive' stockings, but of course, the photos are not in color, so you will have to use your imagination, for that one. However, in the film adaptation, Gudrun and Ursula did indeed wear those stockings and especially Ursula's stood out as being garish colors. Maybe I can find a film still; I don't think hers were quite as thick though.

I don't know if there's any hidden meaning behind that. I think you're right when you say that it's just contrived. L was probably just looking for a quick way to make the parallel clearer, and he stumbled into this idea for the two dresses.

I don't know. That does not sound like L's intentions. He usually was so detailed and wrote things like that on purpose; he would not just let it slip by or add it, as a contrived image. I will re-read that part again and see if it yields any clues. I will let you know after, what I think.

Oh, please. It's not like I've said anything substantial in the Nietzsche thread. I try to stop in and prod people with some questions, but I'm not really a part of the conversation. I'm not even sure whether there is a conversation going in there yet. I just try to support these threads that really get into a book or author.

You've said more than I. Actually, I have never read much on Nietzsche, only what I know of L's readings of his work. I need to read a full work of his, but I don't have time right now. It is on my 'to read list'...the endless one.....

You've never heard flag used as a verb? When something is losing strength or vigor it's referred to as flagging.

Gee, I thought if we got the flag that meant 'go!' Yeah, I guess sometime or the other I heard the word used the other way. I guess it is more a sports term, isn't it? Well, I have lost strength and vigor in the past few years, so I guess I'm 'flagged'.

You must have posted that when I was at the book store or something because I didn't see your post until you mentioned it. I can't respond to everything that was in it yet because I've promised to post and talk about the next section of the story first.

Oh, back to the old bookstore, eh....B & N again? Spill any coffee this time, Quark? They actually allowed you back in, humm? Oh, yes, my last brilliant post; I forgot about that one. That is ok, answer it eventually and I will still keep talking to you.

I think I may have matched you this month on story rereads. I've read up-and-down, back-and-forth every part of "Two Blue Birds."

Hahaa...so why did you? Still trying to figure this one out? I guess the story was not that bad, afterall....especially if we are still discussing it.

Last night, I was reading the other story, Virgil, said was a good one, "The Princess" It is quite a bit longer than this one, but so far, it has me captivated. I don't think this story was about Brett, but rather their other mutal friend, who is pictured in the photo that Virgil posted earlier, this being Mabel Luhan, who lived with, then later married an Native American Indian; she played prominently in Lawrence's life, at this time. During this time or about, Lawrence also wrote "The Woman Who Rode Away", which I know Virgil has mentioned several times in this thread. Mabel was also the model for this story, I just read the references to it in my research books, and they are quite specific. [opps! I may have found some conflicting information about who was the model for each story; I guess I have to do more intense research; so don't quote me on any of this (my musings outloud)]
These two stories may be good posibilities for the coming months, even though these are more advanced and later stories of L's. However, actually, in my book Volume 2, one preceeds 'Two Blue Birds', and the other follows it (The Princess).

[Virgil]

Or we can do a really early story, if you wish Janine. As you wish. The Princess might be a good one now.

[Janine]

Or we can do a really early story, if you wish Janine. As you wish. The Princess might be a good one now.

Well, if we finish this one soon, maybe...because it is long; that way we could devote more than a month to it, and take it slowly.
I have some family concerns right now, as you know, and the big event that is soon to come up in ours lives - my grandbaby! So, I was unsure as to whether I can devote the time to this thread next month. I don't want to miss out on anything and "The Princess" does seem like a good one. I will get back to you on this - ok?
I will read the second half tonight or tomorrow night.

Janine, the Princess will decide soon....

[Quark]

I don't know. That does not sound like L's intentions. He usually was so detailed and wrote things like that on purpose; he would not just let it slip by or add it, as a contrived image. I will re-read that part again and see if it yields any clues. I will let you know after, what I think.

Well I don't think there's much more to it than that. I suppose you could argue that it's a gesture on the part of secretary. She sees the wife in a blue dress and decides to challenge her by wearing similar clothing. The secretary could be competing with the wife.

Gee, I thought if we got the flag that meant 'go!' Yeah, I guess sometime or the other I heard the word used the other way. I guess it is more a sports term, isn't it? Well, I have lost strength and vigor in the past few years, so I guess I'm 'flagged'.

I believe the term comes from the droopiness of flags in general.

Oh, back to the old bookstore, eh....B & N again? Spill any coffee this time, Quark? They actually allowed you back in, humm? Oh, yes, my last brilliant post; I forgot about that one. That is ok, answer it eventually and I will still keep talking to you.

My town is a little too small for a Barnes and Noble. We have a locally owned, non-chain store here that is actually pretty good. They keep expanding, too, so they must be doing something right. Or, maybe they're just pouring money into a finical sinkhole. I don't know. I would assume they're making some money, but I don't know where it would come from. The locals around here are not exactly the literary type.

As for your post--which was brilliant--it's still tabled because now we're into this whole other discussion about Anna and Alekhin. Once I turn the conversation to the husband, I'll respond to your post.

Hahaa...so why did you? Still trying to figure this one out? I guess the story was not that bad, afterall....especially if we are still discussing it.

Who said it was a bad story?

"The Princess" It is quite a bit longer than this one, but so far, it has me captivated.

Obviously I don't relish having to do lengthy reading. Yet, if it's the better story, go with that one.

[Virgil]

Well, if we finish this one soon, maybe...because it is long; that way we could devote more than a month to it, and take it slowly.
I have some family concerns right now, as you know, and the big event that is soon to come up in ours lives - my grandbaby! So, I was unsure as to whether I can devote the time to this thread next month. I don't want to miss out on anything and "The Princess" does seem like a good one. I will get back to you on this - ok?
I will read the second half tonight or tomorrow night.

Janine, the Princess will decide soon....

Janine, if you got a busy month, you might want to do something simpler than The Princess. It's a complicated story and will bring much discussion I think.

[Janine]

Janine, if you got a busy month, you might want to do something simpler than The Princess. It's a complicated story and will bring much discussion I think.

Virgil,I finished reading it last night...Wow! - it was something and so unexpectable. I could not stop reading, but I especially liked the descriptive writing, just brilliant, as they climb further and further up to the summit of the mountains and on horse-back. It was lovely decriptive writing, some of L's best I think. The plot or storyline are complicated, though. I will see how things develop and let you know. Maybe for now, I will choose a shorter one, but we must do this one eventually. It was a good story; really captivated my interest.

I have to go out a short while for now, so Quark, will post something in answer to yours, tonight or tomorrow; same applies to DM. Sorry for delays.

[Janine]

Well I don't think there's much more to it than that. I suppose you could argue that it's a gesture on the part of secretary. She sees the wife in a blue dress and decides to challenge her by wearing similar clothing. The secretary could be competing with the wife.

I believe the term comes from the droopiness of flags in general.

That is a good one! I think I feel droopy a lot lately so I must be flagged!

My town is a little too small for a Barnes and Noble. We have a locally owned, non-chain store here that is actually pretty good. They keep expanding, too, so they must be doing something right. Or, maybe they're just pouring money into a finical sinkhole. I don't know. I would assume they're making some money, but I don't know where it would come from. The locals around here are not exactly the literary type.

Well, my B&N is about 20 minutes from here, near the mall; but that is ok, because you know how women love any excuse to go to the mall or near the mall - lots of good stores around it, too. But actually, I only normally browse in B&N and then buy it cheaper off Amazon, or try to....but of course some days I do cave in and find a bargain at B&N. Locals here are not that literary either; like I am amazed at the sheer junk, that people check out of my library. I go to hunt for a classic and normally the book is old or falling into ruin. They usually end up giving away the best old books, so I have gotten lucky occasionally. They also got wise and sold some on Amazon - darn!

As for your post--which was brilliant--it's still tabled because now we're into this whole other discussion about Anna and Alekhin. Once I turn the conversation to the husband, I'll respond to your post.

My post was brilliant? Well, hello... then, Quark, am I still 'tabled'? Is our Chekhov thread fading into oblivion? huh, huh......hello, anyone there??? Also, I wondered if this one was also fading away.......

Who said it was a bad story?

Well, Virgil, said it was not one of his best. I thought it was quite good myself and the dialogue was written brilliantly. Lawrence very rarely disappoints me.

Obviously I don't relish having to do lengthy reading. Yet, if it's the better story, go with that one.

Well, I might hold off on 'The Princess' for now. I have many more that are candidates to choose from. We can do a simplier one for now since the next two months for me will be truly busy ones. I have to think of my new grandchild first.

[Quark]

My post was brilliant? Well, hello... then, Quark, am I still 'tabled'? Is our Chekhov thread fading into oblivion? huh, huh......hello, anyone there??? Also, I wondered if this one was also fading away.......

Well I paused for your response to my post, but instead you took a mini-vacation. Perhaps it was a well-deserved break, but meanwhile the threads went silent. I don't think we were in any threat of oblivion, though. Was that comic overstatement?

Well, Virgil, said it was not one of his best. I thought it was quite good myself and the dialogue was written brilliantly. Lawrence very rarely disappoints me.

I enjoyed the dialogue, too. I also liked how the thoughts of the wife were written and how Lawrence developed the sense of distance between husband and wife. Other parts of the story disappointed me, though. The characters weren't as nuanced as some of the other characters we've seen, and the story-telling was a little clumsy at times--like Lawrence using the blue dresses to draw a parallel. I'm sure this will provoke more ire from you, but there were some problems with the story. Not everything in a Lawrence story is perfect. Overall, it was still pretty good. Like Virgil hinted, it wasn't the best story we've read, but it certainly wasn't the worst. Somewhere in the middle is where it falls in my estimation.

Well, I might hold off on 'The Princess' for now. I have many more that are candidates to choose from. We can do a simplier one for now since the next two months for me will be truly busy ones. I have to think of my new grandchild first.

Recently I got the list of Lawrence anthologies that my book story can order. I'll have to email the list of what they have so you can help me make a decision.

[Virgil]

Well, Virgil, said it was not one of his best. I thought it was quite good myself and the dialogue was written brilliantly. Lawrence very rarely disappoints me.

Well, I didn't say it was bad or disappointing. It was a good story.