View Poll Results: Who Do You Think Is The Victim Of The Book?

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  • Dolores Haze

    31 33.70%
  • Humbert Humbert

    8 8.70%
  • Neither

    18 19.57%
  • Both Are Victims

    35 38.04%
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Thread: Lolita

  1. #181
    Inderjit Sanghera
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    Humbert was a master manipulator, right from the word go-

    Humbert's narcissism is apparent from the start, note for example his hilarious statement that the McCoo's house burned down due to the "the synchronous conflagration that had been raging all night in my veins"-ironic, perhaps, interesting nonetheless. Also note his description of the dog which is nearly run over by the car he is travelling in, the kind of dog that will always be at risk from being run over my cars, in any case he is tempting fate as his conclusion is an oddly prophetic summarisation of his own relationship with Lolita. (And ironic, considering the fact that the car that runs over Dolores tries to avoid a dog and thus hits her.)

    He immediately sets upon Dolores-best get the description out of the way as quickly as possible-accusing her of philistine vulgarity, all American pretension and drabness a book-club bourgeoisie if ever there was one. Perhaps he was right, but he fails to notice the fakeness behind his own "old world politeness" how is equally constrained by the image of him as a old world intellectual and how he needs to keep this image up in order to hide his inner, perverse nature. Baudelaire once claimed that the devil's greatest trick was to convince the world he didn't exist and Humbert's trick echoes the devil's deceit.

    He deceives Dolores into thinking he is in love with her-that is coldness is a old world idiosyncrasy, rather than being a manipulation of Dolores, supposed instantaneous, attraction to him. When she threatens to send Lolita to boarding school he knows that he cannot beat her into submission like he did to Valeria, twisting the wrist she once broke, he had to manipulate her, and make it out as if it was she who always made the decisions, that Dolores wore the trousers in the house and that Humbert lived in a state of perpetual acquiescence, poor, vulnerable Humbert! He tricks his rather bland next-door-neighbours, Jane and John (even their names are a reflection of bland, dour Americana!) into thinking that he had an affair with Dolores year before and that he was in fact Lolita's real father-not that he lets us see this in a negative light, it was an act of cleverness, rather than a string in the web of Humbert's deceit. But even the subtlest spiders have weak points!

    He fails to differentiate the difference between a moth and a butterfly when he picks up Lolita and he convinces her that if she leaves him she will only end up in a cold, loveless home, where she will rot amongst the drudgery. He fails to see how much Lolita desires normality, how she wants a father figure in her life-instead he deceives us with his nebulous neologisms, he sexually manipulates Lolita when she is sick and constantly tricks a wide range of people-priests, psychoanalysts and naive neighbours and teachers-as well as Lolita herself in delaying the news of her mothers death.
    The cradle rocks above an abyss, and common sense tells us that our existence is but a brief crack of light between two eternities of darkness.-Vladimir Nabokov

    human speech is like a cracked kettle on which we tap crude rhythms for bears to dance to, while we long to make music that will melt the stars-Flaubert

  2. #182
    Voice of Chaos & Anarchy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antiquarian View Post

    Oh, I agree! "Granita" was a terrific story, but made all the better if one has read Lolita first. It only makes sense, right? In order to understand the parody, one needs to be familiar with what's being parodied.
    Yes, I think that you are right. Parodies are only really funny when the reader knows the original work. I don't think that "Granita" would even make sense to someone who hadn't read Lolita.

  3. #183
    Tu le connais, lecteur... Kafka's Crow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterL View Post
    One should read Lolita before reading "Granita", because "Granita" was a parody of Lolita.
    I read Granita around 9 years ago but was quite familiar with Nabokov's work by that time. It did make sense and will, surely, make more sense when I go back to it after finishing reading Lolita. Started reading the book today and am already blown away by the style of it. Strange but today my sister-in-law told me that my long-time favorite song, Radiohead's 'Creep,' is about pedophilia! Never thought of it that way but then my liking of the song started after watching Yvan Attal's Ils se marièrent et eurent beaucoup d'enfants which featured it and had nothing to do with little girls:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxpblnsJEWM
    "The farther he goes the more good it does me. I don’t want philosophies, tracts, dogmas, creeds, ways out, truths, answers, nothing from the bargain basement. He is the most courageous, remorseless writer going and the more he grinds my nose in the sh1t the more I am grateful to him..."
    -- Harold Pinter on Samuel Beckett

  4. #184
    mind your back chasestalling's Avatar
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    The victims are the the constituents of the censors who really believed that by censoring the book they'd achieve their objective.
    If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well it were done quickly.
    --Shakespeare

  5. #185
    Registered User kelby_lake's Avatar
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    ? Not sure what you mean

  6. #186
    mind your back chasestalling's Avatar
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    LOLITA was censored, deemed a menace to public morals, etcetera etcetera. Now if the censors had just shut up...who knows maybe they might've gotten what they really wanted.
    If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well it were done quickly.
    --Shakespeare

  7. #187
    Beautant Lily Adams's Avatar
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    I LOVE Lolita! Amazing, incredible, genius work of literary merit. I read the book and then saw the Kubrick movie, and I cried both times at the end...I felt so bad for Humbert. I mean, yes, he was a very sick man, but he was in love and Lolita just used him like that. Nabokov did his job of making me sympathsize with Humbert.

    One of my favorite parts in the book was the scene of Humbert in the park and he's twitching from the pleasure of all the little girls around him and this lady comes up to him and says, "Are you all right?" Hahahaha. Oh man. It was an "ew" moment but a very funny one. I love black comedy.

    Also I thought it was unfathomable that Nabokov wrote it that well in English when he wasn't even a native speaker. Absolute genius. Such imagery. It totally twisted my mind and made me look at things differently.


    Tomorrow always holds the promise of something new and exciting. I am the Jetsons meet the Flintstones.

  8. #188
    Inderjit Sanghera
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    Granita by Eco is indeed quite funny, though I prefer his 'editorial criticsms' of Dante, Kafka and Proust in the same book.

    LOLITA was censored, deemed a menace to public morals, etcetera etcetera. Now if the censors had just shut up...who knows maybe they might've gotten what they really wanted
    Nabokov, I believe, was able to get the book first published via a French Erotica publisher, which could also boast of Henry Miller and Jean Genet! I also remember reading about how Graham Greene was one of the first people to recognise Lolita's genius-most people at the time thought that it was a pornographic book and ridiculed Greene when he named is in his lost of the three best books of the year. If it wasn't for Greene, Lolita may not have been recognised as a masterpiece.

    Another point on the movie-I can't help but think that James Mason, talented actor that he was, was the wrong person to play Humbert. I think that somebody like Marlon Brando would have been a better choice, or maybe Montgomery Clift, though he may have looked a little bit too 'boyish'. Mason, for me, just didn't have that rugged, European handsomeness which Humbert claims he has.
    The cradle rocks above an abyss, and common sense tells us that our existence is but a brief crack of light between two eternities of darkness.-Vladimir Nabokov

    human speech is like a cracked kettle on which we tap crude rhythms for bears to dance to, while we long to make music that will melt the stars-Flaubert

  9. #189
    Registered User kelby_lake's Avatar
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    I agree that Mason was the wrong choice. I don't know whether Humbert is actually good-looking but the other characters seem to think it. Jeromy Irons was aesthetically better, although still wasn't quite there.

  10. #190

    Wink Petty but irksome.

    Inderjit Sanghe, one would think someone as knowledgeable as yourself would get the character's names right. Surely you're not that careless?

  11. #191
    Registered User Emil Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inderjit Sanghe View Post
    Granita
    Another point on the movie-I can't help but think that James Mason, talented actor that he was, was the wrong person to play Humbert. I think that somebody like Marlon Brando would have been a better choice, or maybe Montgomery Clift, though he may have looked a little bit too 'boyish'. Mason, for me, just didn't have that rugged, European handsomeness which Humbert claims he has.
    I thought that Mason was perfect for Humbert, as were all of the rest of the cast. Brando would have been a disaster, as per his performance in Last Tango in Paris 11 years later,.How could the all-American Brando have had the European handsomness necessary for the part?

  12. #192
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    Portions of the novel have extremely well crafted prose; however, I thought a fair amount of it was boring and forgettable.

  13. #193
    aspiring Arthurianist Wilde woman's Avatar
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    For those of you who voted that both Humbert and Dolores are victims, do you mean that Humbert was victimized by Dolores?

    I personally find it hard to believe Humbert is a victim of Dolores. If he argues that she seduced him, I'd argue that he's not exactly the most reliable of narrators. Or do you mean Humbert is victimized by Dolores' unfaithfulness? Sleeping with another boy at summer camp and later running away with Quilty?

    Or perhaps do you mean that Humbert is victimized by something else?
    Last edited by Wilde woman; 02-24-2009 at 07:51 PM.

  14. #194
    Registered User Emil Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilde woman View Post
    For those of you who voted that both Humbert and Dolores are victims, do you mean that Humbert was victimized by Dolores?

    I personally find it hard to believe Humbert is a victim of Dolores. If he argues that she seduced him, I'd argue that he's not exactly the most reliable of narrators. Or do you mean Humbert is victimized by Dolores' unfaithfulness? Sleeping with another boy at summer camp and later running away with Quilty?

    Or perhaps do you mean that Humbert is victimized by something else?
    Humbert was victim because he was in love with her and it was inevitable that he would lose her.

  15. #195
    Registered User kelby_lake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Bean View Post
    I thought that Mason was perfect for Humbert, as were all of the rest of the cast. Brando would have been a disaster, as per his performance in Last Tango in Paris 11 years later,.How could the all-American Brando have had the European handsomness necessary for the part?
    Oh, you couldn't had an American play him!
    We need a new film of Lolita, I think.

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