Chekhov Short Story Thread

[Quark]

When we start a new story, I request we start the beginning of April, ok?

I say the second it turns April we can start discussing. These last two stories were rather brief and didn't need much much commenting from us, but I have a feeling that the next story will be a little more involved. We might need a whole month to talk it out.

Do you mean passengers? I don't know. I have to think about it a bit. Maybe it is the mob mentality and when one person states the authority (ticket collector) has done wrong, then the others chime in and so they all think alike. People love to rebell against authority if they have the opportunity to. I think this might be the case in this story, not that they actually all believe Podtyagon is guilty.

Yeah, I forgot an "s". We probably should touch on the passenger(s) before we move on. There isn't too much to say about them, but I would draw the parallel between the mindless way they act and the mindless way that Podtyagin acts. The passengers idiotically follow each other, and Podtyagin idiotically follows his resolution.

Did you ever read of see the play "Enemy of the People"? I saw it last night on VHS and that is essentially what happens in this play - the 'mob mentality' takes over or the majority all think alike by gradual coerion. The man they deem heroic at the start of the play, they later condemn as 'the enemy of the people". Interesting play; if you get a chance do see it or read it.

No, that one's new to me. I've heard of it, but never seen it. Was Kenneth Branagh in it?

Hey you two.. sorry I've been gone for so long.. just been in kind of funk the last couple weeks.. a melancholy rut since coming back from climbing in California... but I am looking froward to starting on another story...

Hopefully you're better now. Does that usually happen after you go rock climbing? I suppose climbing to the summit of some jagged mountain must be pretty exhilarating, but coming back down must be sort of anti-climatic.

I see both of you mentioned above about Podtyagon being at fault himself for his slide back into alcoholism and despair.. That is exactly what I take from the story... I know several alcoholics, some family members in fact, as well as smokers, and other such addictions, and they always find an external influence to give up each and every attempt to quit, and only when threatened with real loss are the real addicts able to quit, and even then not always... and Podtyagon sets himself up for this with his behaviour throughout the story, he wants an excuse for the failure he knows is coming..

Podtyagin's habit does become a sort of addiction. Drink and despair are not just his coping mechanisms. They're also his drugs which he doesn't want to be parted from. I think we can say that he manufactures some of the conflict in the story to justify his own addiction. But, like I've argued earlier, there is still some earnestness in Podtyagin. At some level he does want to change, and the public does drive him back to drink. The story is called "Oh! The Public," after all. Plus, on top of this, we have to wonder how much Podtyagin's obtuseness is to blame. We've gone over a number of incidences where it's just his idiocy which is stopping him from changing.

well... you two have pretty much covered everything.. I look forward to the next story, and participating a little more on this one again.. what story are we doing and when are we starting???

As one of my former coworkers always used to say to me colloquially, "it's time to stick a fork in this one." I've had enough Chekhov for this month.

I'm still deciding on next month's story, though. I keep going back and forth between a few. The problem is that we all seem to like different kinds of stories. Janine wants a short and more optimistic one. I kind of like the darker, tragic stories. You're favorites are the longer and more psychological stories. I'm trying to find one that will makes us all happy, but having a hard time following through on that. As soon as I know I'll post the title of it.

[islandclimber]

Quark... I really like the darker and tragic stories as well.. I am quite a melancholy person in terms of reading and writing... Most of his dark and tragic stories I love... I just sometimes like to go into the longer reads.. though my two favourites are quite tragic as well... But "Sleepy" is also one of my favourites... and then there is a short one about a young boy who has been sent to live with someone (an uncle maybe?) and is terrified and sad and miserable and just wants to go home and is writing a letter to that effect.. do you know what it is called??? I really loved it...

[Janine]

I say the second it turns April we can start discussing. These last two stories were rather brief and didn't need much much commenting from us, but I have a feeling that the next story will be a little more involved. We might need a whole month to talk it out.

Whatever - see my comments below - last part of this post.

Yeah, I forgot an "s". We probably should touch on the passenger(s) before we move on. There isn't too much to say about them, but I would draw the parallel between the mindless way they act and the mindless way that Podtyagin acts. The passengers idiotically follow each other, and Podtyagin idiotically follows his resolution.

No, that one's new to me. I've heard of it, but never seen it. Was Kenneth Branagh in it?

No, he is not in this production. You are real funny thinking so, but you are close. That is how I first heard of this play. I had read that Branagh had played the role at his high school play or a small local theater company during that time and it was a big hit. So he has played it onstage, in his earlier years. He may have played it at RADA, as well. It was originally written by Isben and then this particular screenplay on tape was updated by Arthur Miller. It was very well done and amazing how far ahead of his time, Isben was in the theme. You can find the play under Isben on this site.

Hopefully you're better now. Does that usually happen after you go rock climbing? I suppose climbing to the summit of some jagged mountain must be pretty exhilarating, but coming back down must be sort of anti-climatic.

I was thinking the same. What a let down too to come back home from vacation; that applies to anywhere, especially warmer climates.

Podtyagin's habit does become a sort of addiction. Drink and despair are not just his coping mechanisms. They're also his drugs which he doesn't want to be parted from. I think we can say that he manufactures some of the conflict in the story to justify his own addiction. But, like I've argued earlier, there is still some earnestness in Podtyagin. At some level he does want to change, and the public does drive him back to drink. The story is called "Oh! The Public," after all. Plus, on top of this, we have to wonder how much Podtyagin's obtuseness is to blame. We've gone over a number of incidences where it's just his idiocy which is stopping him from changing.

Well put and I basically agree.

As one of my former coworkers always used to say to me colloquially, "it's time to stick a fork in this one." I've had enough Chekhov for this month.

Yeah - really - get that fork out and stab it, for all I care at this point!

I'm still deciding on next month's story, though. I keep going back and forth between a few. The problem is that we all seem to like different kinds of stories. Janine wants a short and more optimistic one. I kind of like the darker, tragic stories. You're favorites are the longer and more psychological stories. I'm trying to find one that will makes us all happy, but having a hard time following through on that. As soon as I know I'll post the title of it.

Decisions, decisions.....hummm ho hum la de da! Well, what a dilema you are in, Quark, our fearless leader. If you pick a longer story, then I will have to see if I can still participate. I really hoped for the shorter ones, but it is up to you. I just know that next month is going to be quite busy for me. I hope I can find the story (if it is longer) offline, also. I don't want to print out that much and use all that ink - say 30, 40 pages. I like the longer ones, but just wanted to be practical. This month worked out well with little pressure. I do like tragic ones, just not ones (currently) where babies or small children are the victims. I am an avid "Hamlet" fan, so one can see I do love tradedies, probably more so, than Shakespeare's comedies. You can pick a tragedy for me, no problem - just don't kill off babies, kids or puppies!

[Quark]

Quark... I really like the darker and tragic stories as well.. I am quite a melancholy person in terms of reading and writing... Most of his dark and tragic stories I love... I just sometimes like to go into the longer reads.. though my two favourites are quite tragic as well... But "Sleepy" is also one of my favourites... and then there is a short one about a young boy who has been sent to live with someone (an uncle maybe?) and is terrified and sad and miserable and just wants to go home and is writing a letter to that effect.. do you know what it is called??? I really loved it...

I almost forgot about that one. Yeah, it's called "Vanka." That story is depressing just for the sake of being depressing. At least with "Sleepy" there's some drama and shock, but "Vanka" is just a catalogue of depressing events. "Vanka" might also violate Janine's "no children/puppy hurting" request. It's a moving story, though.

Have you read "Gooseberries?" I know Janine has. Why I ask is because one of the stories I'm thinking about doing is a response to that story. The stories are separate, and you can understand one without reading the other. But, I just thought it might be better if everyone had read "Gooseberries" since I'll probably refer to it.

No, he is not in this production. You are real funny thinking so, but you are close. That is how I first heard of this play. I had read that Branagh had played the role at his high school play or a small local theater company during that time and it was a big hit.

Ah, you're getting predictable Janine.

You can pick a tragedy for me, no problem - just don't kill off babies, kids or puppies!

Alright, I promise no puppy or baby killing (at least for next month). I also promise to end the agonizing tomorrow and just pick a story.

[islandclimber]

yep.. I've read gooseberries... I quite like it too... thanks for reminding me of the name.. I was trying to find it earlier... it is a very depressing story... well I look forward to tomorrow...

oh, with rock climbing, it usually doesn't happen, as i rock climb, well in the gym year round a couple days a week, and in the summer outside a couple times a month... it is quite exhilarating though, everything about it.. I love it.. I think more or less I just am subceptible to pretty crazy mood swings, where I go from doing all kinds of things, like climbing, snowboarding, hiking, surfing, swimming, reading, writing, drawing, etc.. to having no desire to do anything at all... and then I realize I should just meditate... that usually brings piece... I need to find a happy medium, but I'm a person of extremes, oh well..

[Janine]

I almost forgot about that one. Yeah, it's called "Vanka." That story is depressing just for the sake of being depressing. At least with "Sleepy" there's some drama and shock, but "Vanka" is just a catalogue of depressing events. "Vanka" might also violate Janine's "no children/puppy hurting" request. It's a moving story, though.

I have seen 'Vanka' in the library book; but, if it deals with children being brutally killed or maimed forget it. I mean it! I am having my first grandchild born soon and I am getting nervous. A story like that would disturb me and worry me more so. I don't want that praying on my mind right now.

Have you read "Gooseberries?" I know Janine has. Why I ask is because one of the stories I'm thinking about doing is a response to that story. The stories are separate, and you can understand one without reading the other. But, I just thought it might be better if everyone had read "Gooseberries" since I'll probably refer to it.

If I ever read "Gooseberries", it had to be 100 yrs ago! I don't recall a thing about the story....sorry to disappoint you.

Ah, you're getting predictable Janine.

Am I really? Well, you deduced that, from the fact I am a big Branagh fan and he is a stage actor, even currently so; therefore you thought 'play', must be a 'Branagh production'. I do wish I had seen his rendition. I have the DVD of "Look Back in Anger" and it is really something intense to see. He also played that on stage, but this was geared for a TV airing originally on BBC. I happen to love the film and find fascination in the performances; plus Judy Dench directed it. Pretty fiesty stuff - sort of like Chekhov haha.

Alright, I promise no puppy or baby killing (at least for next month). I also promise to end the agonizing tomorrow and just pick a story.

Good, because of what I wrote already in here. Ok, but I am not sure you can refer back to "Gooseberries"; I would have to read both and I don't have time this coming month....truly sorry...but I already feel overwhelmed. Does the next story have to be super long? Maybe something inbetween long and short would be desirable and advisable.

[Quark]

Okay, I thought a little about story selection and decided to do what I had already figured I would end up doing. How about we read one of my favorites, "About Love?" At 7 pages, it's somewhere in between long and short. This story--while being it's own separate story--is linked with two others, "The Man in a Case" and "Gooseberries," which share some common themes and characters. There are three characters in these stories, and each story is the narrative of one of the characters. It's sort like Canterbury Tales in that respect. If you're curious you could go out and read the other two stories, but it isn't really necessary. Each stands alone as it's own story. "About Love" is told mostly from Alekhin's perspective. He uses his story to try to answer some basic questions about love, desire, and society. Plus, along the way there's some real pathos. Should be a good discussion. It'll be interesting to see what you guys think of it.

[islandclimber]

sounds good Quark.. I'm so glad I was already a Chekhov aficionado... for I've read this one too... I quite like it, and am happy to read it again, for it was a long time ago, and discussing always brings out something that I didn't see... thanks for choosing a story!

[Dark Muse]

Though I do not happen to have this story in my book, I may print it on line and join in

[Janine]

Ok, if anyone needs the online text you can find it here and many other stories of Chekhov's: http://www.americanliterature.com/Chekhov/Chekhov.html

I will post more when I come back from the library. If you can Quark, now that we are decided maybe you can introduce the story formally and put the title in bold so it stands out for any new comers. Sounds like a good story and if possible I will try and read 'Gooseberries' too, if you say it does tie in.

[Quark]

Good, it sounds like everyone's in. I suppose now I can change my signature and introduce the story formally (in a large font). Next month we'll do,

"About Love"http://www.online-literature.com/anton_chekhov/1291/. It's the last of a three story cycle which examines similar themes through the stories of each of its main characters. But, like I said before, each story is quite distinct, and you don't have to read all three to understand just one of them. For summary, I'll try to stay vague so as not give anything away. "About Love" is told mostly by Alekhin who is entertaining two guests when the topic of love comes up. The host comments on the mysteries surrounding love and then breaks into a very revealing personal narrative. Alekhin charges his story with both philosophy and feeling to create something that's more than just an answer to questions brought up earlier in the conversation, but also an entertaining and moving experience for the listeners. Beyond that I can't say much without giving it away. If it goes over well, maybe we'll read the other two stories that are linked with this one.

Discussion officially begins April 1st. I didn't want to start it quite yet because I have to catch up with some other threads that I've been following. The Aeneid discussion looks like it might be breaking out again, so I'll probably be busy over there for a few days.

sounds good Quark.. I'm so glad I was already a Chekhov aficionado... for I've read this one too... I quite like it, and am happy to read it again, for it was a long time ago, and discussing always brings out something that I didn't see... thanks for choosing a story!

I didn't think this one would be new for you, but I figured we should do one of the more well-known ones for the people just joining us.

Though I do not happen to have this story in my book, I may print it on line and join in

Check your library. This story is often included in collections. If you can't find it, then, yeah, print it off. There are also some cheap anthologies you can buy on Amazon, too.

Ok, if anyone needs the online text you can find it here and many other stories of Chekhov's: http://www.americanliterature.com/Chekhov/Chekhov.html

Thanks for the link

I will post more when I come back from the library. If you can Quark, now that we are decided maybe you can introduce the story formally and put the title in bold so it stands out for any new comers.

Did I cover everything? I'll probably have to reintroduce the story when we start up again in April.

[Janine]

Quark, thanks so much for acting promptly and bolding the type face for the title, and for making it seem interesting with your fine introduction. Good, you told us just enough, to entice us to read the story, and did not give away the ending. I am now curious, which of the three stories follow or proceed chronologically, when they are linked? I ask this, incase, I have the time to read the one, that would naturally preceed it, if that be the case. Is it "Gooseberries"?

Ok, went to my library and just got back. I asked the librarian for help this time, because I could not seem to locate "Lady with the Lapdog" and the computer said they had it available - yes this volume says 'with' - isn't it sometimes 'and' in the translation. With a bit of investigating, we found the book on another shelf, out of library sequence - those librarians! ...Anyway, that particular collection only had about 10 stories in it and no one was this one...*sgh*....so much for that idea. Ok, onto more research on the internet again, with the nice librarian (not the 'witchy' one I sometimes have to deal with)...ok....so she looks on 'Google search' and comes up with -- OUR site!.....yes, so we did check the page again and I now noticed it was not set up alphabeticially, as I thought, when I viewed the list at home - AHA! - there was the story listed in our own Chekhov page. I am not sure if it was exactly the same title, but the first line of the actual text does read the same. I had her click on it to make sure. Odd about these various translations, when we were researching we also saw "Lady and the Pet Dog" - is that hysterical or what? I really laughed at that and she said, "how in the world do you locate one of Chekhov's stories, if the title them differently?" Also she could not spell Chekhov and she said I taught her something new tonight. I really had to chuckle at all this, when I got back into my car. Don't librarians have to have a PHD? Thus ended my adventure at the library; I just had to share all this with you.

I guess for now, I will be printing out this story. I may reduce the size of the type, so it is not too many pages to print; but then again I may go blind reading it .


Fantastic - welcome Dark Muse, at first glance, I did not notice you joining in; I am so used to seeing your post in Lawrence thread, I took you for granted. Hey, Quark, didn't I tell you this thread would grow and grow in time....now we are 4, or even 5, if Pensive joins in this month.

[Dark Muse]

Fantastic - welcome Dark Muse, at first glance, I did not notice you joining in; I am so used to seeing your post in Lawrence thread, I took you for granted. Hey, Quark, didn't I tell you this thread would grow and grow in time....now we are 4, or even 5, if Pensive joins in this month.

I do look forward to this new discussion. I know nothing of Chekhov, and thus far only read one of his stories, but I did enjoy it, so this should prove to be interesting.

[islandclimber]

Ok, went to my library and just got back. I asked the librarian for help this time, because I could not seem to locate "Lady with the Lapdog" and the computer said they had it available - yes this volume says 'with' - isn't it sometimes 'and' in the translation. With a bit of investigating, we found the book on another shelf, out of library sequence - those librarians! ...Anyway, that particular collection only had about 10 stories in it and no one was this one...*sgh*....so much for that idea. Ok, onto more research on the internet again, with the nice librarian (not the 'witchy' one I sometimes have to deal with)...ok....so she looks on 'Google search' and comes up with -- OUR site!.....yes, so we did check the page again and I now noticed it was not set up alphabeticially, as I thought, when I viewed the list at home - AHA! - there was the story listed in our own Chekhov page. I am not sure if it was exactly the same title, but the first line of the actual text does read the same. I had her click on it to make sure. Odd about these various translations, when we were researching we also saw "Lady and the Pet Dog" - is that hysterical or what? I really laughed at that and she said, "how in the world do you locate one of Chekhov's stories, if the title them differently?" Also she could not spell Chekhov and she said I taught her something new tonight. I really had to chuckle at all this, when I got back into my car. Don't librarians have to have a PHD? Thus ended my adventure at the library; I just had to share all this with you. .

Janine sounds like quite the experience at the library... PHDs or Masters of Library Sciences or whatever degree they have I guess only means so much... maybe not to familiar with literature outside the english language???

well I am looking forward to this discussion and to not being so lazy about posting with this story... I will try not to fall through the little hole to nowhere in particular in the floor of my living room... I think I can manage that...

On a completely off the topic note, Janine I love your signature quotes, especially the Lawrence one! it is so true and put so well... I really should come join the Lawrence thread... I just got a really bad taste in my mouth reading "sons and lovers"... Though almost every one of his short stories that I have read I really enjoyed... That novel was the most recent Lawrence work I have read and it really left a sour image of the writer's work.. I didn't like it at all, though I can see why others do, it just didn't do well for me for some reason... But as I said I like his short stories, or at least the ones I have read... So please try to entice me into joining, I need to read some more... what story are you doing now? or next?

Dark Muse welcome to the Chekhov group and I hope you enjoy the stories and the discussion as much as we all do... cheers

[Janine]

Janine sounds like quite the experience at the library... PHDs or Masters of Library Sciences or whatever degree they have I guess only means so much... maybe not to familiar with literature outside the english language???

Yeah, a PHD in checking out videos and cd's, I guess. I can't believe their mentality sometimes. Actually, this woman seems to be one of the smarter ones, so I was surprised she knew so little about Chekhov, and especially how to spell his name; but then again, I admit I am not a very good speller myself. I have to look many things up and make mistakes all the time. At least this all amused me tonight, as the library experience usually does. That other 'witchy' woman is too much - everytime I check my stuff out, she tries to catch me at taking out too much at a time. It is so annoying by now. Usually, she has to consult the other librarians, who all say I am fine and the computer is wrong...it seems to register returns slower...very odd system. That annoying woman thinks she is the library police!

well I am looking forward to this discussion and to not being so lazy about posting with this story... I will try not to fall through the little hole to nowhere in particular in the floor of my living room... I think I can manage that...

Glad to hear it! It will be interesting if you stick around for both discussions this time - this one and Lawrence. I saw your long post and comments and agree and disagree on some points but that will have to wait until tomorrow. Maybe I will leave answering it to Virgil. I think he may also disagree with a few of your points but I can't really predict or speak for him because I may be wrong. You did bring out some very good points nearer the end. I will also read it over again tomorrow.

On a completely off the topic note, Janine I love your signature quotes, especially the Lawrence one! it is so true and put so well... I really should come join the Lawrence thread... I just got a really bad taste in my mouth reading "sons and lovers"... Though almost every one of his short stories that I have read I really enjoyed... That novel was the most recent Lawrence work I have read and it really left a sour image of the writer's work.. I didn't like it at all, though I can see why others do, it just didn't do well for me for some reason... But as I said I like his short stories, or at least the ones I have read... So please try to entice me into joining, I need to read some more... what story are you doing now? or next?

There are many fine quotes from Lawrence I could have used. I like those in particular. I used to have a quote from "Hamlet", the part about 'the fall of a sparrow' and 'if it be now it will come, if it be later, it will come, the readiness is all'. - I think I quoted that correctly. Then one day I decided to change it to these two L quotes. His poetry would provide a ton of great quotes, but these too are very direct and really hit home with me. Lawrence lived like he states here, also, which inspired me.

Glad you did make it to the thread. You will definitely enjoy it. Everyone has liked the short stories we read and discussed so far.

I am a bit miffed as to why you had such a strong negative reaction to "Sons and Lovers" - was it the possessive mother - the bickering, strife and drinking in the family? The ending? I have read the novel twice now, and think it is a masterpiece, but it is a young work. I think Lawrence progressed more with his later novels and stories. Islandclimber, were you in the recent "Sons and Lovers" discussion group? I think, had you been, you would have gained much more knowledge and insight into the book and what Lawrence was trying to say, to achieve. It is basically Lawrence's true life story - autobiographical and personal. I hope you don't mind me questioning you this way; I am just so curious to know what you did not like about the novel.