D.H. Lawrence's Short Stories Thread

[Virgil]

1000 Posts!!!

Sorry, couldn't help it

That is incredible. Fantastic! I don't think any other serious thread has this many. I could be wrong. I should ask the moderators.

[Janine]

That is incredible. Fantastic! I don't think any other serious thread has this many. I could be wrong. I should ask the moderators.

Yes, we should have a party!!! yeah! Do you realise we started this short story thread one year ago? Actually, the 1000th post came in just under a year. Quite an achievement I believe, since we post long posts too, so it really is an accomplishment. We all deserve a pat on the back! Thanks everyone for all the interest!

[Quark]

We're only 800 posts behind the "What are you eating/drinking right now?" thread.

[Janine]

We're only 800 posts behind the "What are you eating/drinking right now?" thread.

Yes and that is only usually a one or two line answer response, isn't it? How funny....you make me laugh, Quark! You are just jealous, cause your Chekhov does not have as many. We have to get working on that one soon. Anyway, Quark, thanks for pointing this out to us dumbies. Speaking for myself it would have passed me right by without my noticing.


I just checked back to some novel discussions and found "Women in Love" - that got a mere 98; I recalled we did have long posts in there and it is only one story, unlike in here. I checked out some others and "To the Lighthouse" was under 100 posts. Gee, will the mods give us a special award, do you think???

[Quark]

You are just jealous, cause your Chekhov does not have as many.

I am. This is a really good thread. The last two stories have been particularly good, too. For me, they were unexpectedly good--considering I hadn't heard of them until a month ago.

Gee, will the mods give us a special award, do you think???

bump

We have to get working on that one soon.

I will probably restart it in March. I was thinking about doing either "Gooseberries" or "A Doctor's Visit". Do you have either of these by any chance? We've read a couple of the more sentimental ones, so I thought we might do one of the darker stories.

I checked out some others and "To the Lighthouse" was under 100 posts.

What? No way. I think Virgil and I argued about Mrs. Ramsay's centrality for longer than 100 posts. Was it really less than 100 posts? That discussion went on for months.

[Janine]

I am. This is a really good thread. The last two stories have been particularly good, too. For me, they were unexpectedly good--considering I hadn't heard of them until a month ago.

Quark, glad you've been enjoying the stories. I thought it turned out to be a good couple months discussions, also. I have enjoyed it. I am so happy at the success of this thread, but truly, it takes much work to keep it going. There is still hope for the Chekhov.

bump

hummm...no chance, huh?

I will probably restart it in March. I was thinking about doing either "Gooseberries" or "A Doctor's Visit". Do you have either of these by any chance? We've read a couple of the more sentimental ones, so I thought we might do one of the darker stories.

*groan* *groan* What, I thought the last two were depressing and dark. Doesn't Chekhov write anything but depressing? Everybody does "Gooseberries" don't they? I recall that from college days.
Well, ugh... these two are not on my audiobook list.
Here is what is on the set, the costly one I bought from Amazon recently...
(I want you to know you are making me type right now)
Oh! The Public, The Choris Girl, The Trousseau, A Story Without a Title, Children, Misery, Fat and Thin, The Begger, Hush!, The Orator, An Actor's End. Now that is 12 when you include the title one I mentioned - In the Ravine. Surely there are some good ones out of those, aren't there?

What? No way. I think Virgil and I argued about Mrs. Ramsay's centrality for longer than 100 posts. Was it really less than 100 posts? That discussion went on for months.

Go try and locate the thread. I just did and can't relocate it. Mostly, it was just you and Virgil. Yes, I recall some bit of 'arguing' - did you have to remind me? Posts were super long, so maybe it did not add up to more than 100. I thought it said something like 96. Anyway, do you know what month we read that last year? Good luck trying to locate it!

[Logos]

Congrats guys I don't know if this is the longest 'serious' thread, there are some noted ones in Gen Lit that are around 300+, and 200+ in the Orwell forum, no magic way to find this stat out other than browsing the forums themselves and looking at # of replies.

[Janine]

Thanks, Logos! That was really nice that you noticed. I think we are all proud of the count and probably that is enough reward. At least, it keeps rolling along and I think we all have learned so much. Speaking for myself, I have enjoyed it emensely. Many of the participants who can't be here now, due to their concentration on their schooling, have expressed to me that they miss this thread and can't wait to get back to it. I will have to tell them, how we hit 1000, since they were a big part of that count. Thanks again. Janine

[Virgil]

Congrats guys I don't know if this is the longest 'serious' thread, there are some noted ones in Gen Lit that are around 300+, and 200+ in the Orwell forum, no magic way to find this stat out other than browsing the forums themselves and looking at # of replies.

Thank you Logos. And in the entire 1000 posts i don't recall getting snooty with anyone. Must be a rarity.

[Dark Muse]

Hehe actually in this entire thread, I do not think at least as long as I have been here, anyone has gotten snooty with anybody and that is truly a first for me.

[Virgil]

I just realized the final section is rather long. So let's break it up in two parts. Here's what i consider the first part, reaching a climax with the woman closing herself off.

After a time she heard the hard tread of her husband on the floor below, and, without herself changing, she registered his movement. She heard his rather disconsolate footsteps go out again, then his voice speaking, answering, growing cheery, and his solid tread drawing near.

He entered, ruddy, rather pleased, an air of complacency about his alert figure. She moved stiffly. He faltered in his approach.

"What's the matter?" he asked a tinge of impatience in his voice. "Aren't you feeling well?"

This was torture to her.

"Quite," she replied.

His brown eyes became puzzled and angry.

"What is the matter?" he said.

"Nothing."

He took a few strides, and stood obstinately, looking out of the window.

"Have you run up against anybody?" he asked.

"Nobody who knows me," she said.

His hands began to twitch. It exasperated him, that she was no more sensible of him than if he did not exist. Turning on her at length, driven, he asked:

"Something has upset you hasn't it?"

"No, why?" she said neutral. He did not exist for her, except as an irritant.

His anger rose, filling the veins in his throat.

"It seems like it," he said, making an effort not to show his anger, because there seemed no reason for it. He went away downstairs. She sat still on the bed, and with the residue of feeling left to her, she disliked him because he tormented her. The time went by. She could smell the dinner being served, the smoke of her husband's pipe from the garden. But she could not move. She had no being. There was a tinkle of the bell. She heard him come indoors. And then he mounted the stairs again. At every step her heart grew tight in her. He opened the door.

"Dinner is on the table," he said.

It was difficult for her to endure his presence, for he would interfere with her. She could not recover her life. She rose stiffly and went down. She could neither eat nor talk during the meal. She sat absent, torn, without any being of her own. He tried to go on as if nothing were the matter. But at last he became silent with fury. As soon as it was possible, she went upstairs again, and locked the bedroom door. She must be alone. He went with his pipe into the garden. All his suppressed anger against her who held herself superior to him filled and blackened his heart. Though he had not know it, yet he had never really won her, she had never loved him. She had taken him on sufference. This had foiled him. He was only a labouring electrician in the mine, she was superior to him. He had always given way to her. But all the while, the injury and ignominy had been working in his soul because she did not hold him seriously. And now all his rage came up against her.

He turned and went indoors. The third time, she heard him mounting the stairs. Her heart stood still. He turned the catch and pushed the door--it was locked. He tried it again, harder. Her heart was standing still.

"Have you fastened the door?" he asked quietly, because of the landlady.

"Yes. Wait a minute."

She rose and turned the lock, afraid he would burst it. She felt hatred towards him, because he did not leave her free. He entered, his pipe between his teeth, and she returned to her old position on the bed. He closed the door and stood with his back to it.

"What's the matter?" he asked determinedly.

She was sick with him. She could not look at him.

"Can't you leave me alone?" she replied, averting her face from him.

He looked at her quickly, fully, wincing with ignominy. Then he seemed to consider for a moment.

"There's something up with you, isn't there?" he asked definitely.

"Yes," she said, "but that's no reason why you should torment me."

"I don't torment you. What's the matter?"

"Why should you know?" she cried, in hate and desperation.

Something snapped. He started and caught his pipe as it fell from his mouth. Then he pushed forward the bitten-off mouth-piece with his tongue, took it from off his lips, and looked at it. Then he put out his pipe, and brushed the ash from his waistcoat. After which he raised his head.

"I want to know," he said. His face was greyish pale, and set uglily.

Neither looked at the other. She knew he was fired now. His heart was pounding heavily. She hated him, but she could not withstand him. Suddenly she lifted her head and turned on him.

"What right have you to know?" she asked.

He looked at her. She felt a pang of surprise for his tortured eyes and his fixed face. But her heart hardened swiftly. She had never loved him. She did not love him now.

It's an interesting little dance that the two perform here. She snubs him, irritated with his presence, and he with every turn gets angrier and angrier. Here again:

His hands began to twitch. It exasperated him, that she was no more sensible of him than if he did not exist. Turning on her at length, driven, he asked:

"Something has upset you hasn't it?"

"No, why?" she said neutral. He did not exist for her, except as an irritant.

His anger rose, filling the veins in his throat.

Interesting about the hands. Similar to her old lover. She really does treat him like dirt. The husband then goes off to prepare dinner and returns to let her know it's ready.

The time went by. She could smell the dinner being served, the smoke of her husband's pipe from the garden. But she could not move. She had no being.

Her self, her ego, is in a state of chaos. She has no being. She has been shaken to the core. But her husband gets in the way:

"Dinner is on the table," he said.

It was difficult for her to endure his presence, for he would interfere with her. She could not recover her life. She rose stiffly and went down. She could neither eat nor talk during the meal. She sat absent, torn, without any being of her own. He tried to go on as if nothing were the matter. But at last he became silent with fury. As soon as it was possible, she went upstairs again, and locked the bedroom door. She must be alone.

The schism between the two is impossible to breech. They are very separate beings. It would be an understatement to say that they don't have a true marriage. Interesting how Lawrence constructs this paragraph. The first half is from the point of view of the woman. Without starting a new paragraph, the point of view shifts to the man. Here's the second half of the paragraph:

He went with his pipe into the garden. All his suppressed anger against her who held herself superior to him filled and blackened his heart. Though he had not know it, yet he had never really won her, she had never loved him. She had taken him on sufference. This had foiled him. He was only a labouring electrician in the mine, she was superior to him. He had always given way to her. But all the while, the injury and ignominy had been working in his soul because she did not hold him seriously. And now all his rage came up against her.

Here the class issue really comes out. Although I think this story is too short to fully elaborate on this theme (he does in The Rainbow) but I think the significance of the class differences is that it emphasizes a mental/cultural chasm between the two, something that a healthy marriage ultimately works out, so that over time the couple will share in mental outlook. This couple can't or at least haven't yet accomplished that. One suspects that they may not. After going away and coming back, he probes to see what the matter is:

"What's the matter?" he asked determinedly.

She was sick with him. She could not look at him.

"Can't you leave me alone?" she replied, averting her face from him.

He looked at her quickly, fully, wincing with ignominy. Then he seemed to consider for a moment.

"There's something up with you, isn't there?" he asked definitely.

"Yes," she said, "but that's no reason why you should torment me."

"I don't torment you. What's the matter?"

"Why should you know?" she cried, in hate and desperation.

"Why should you know?" she asks. She does not want to come together as husband and wife, but stay in her individual self. Her will is powerful and crystalizes her ego. After having lost her ego above (when she lacks being) she finds her ego through opposition to her husband. He blows up and she hardens even further:

"What right have you to know?" she asked.

He looked at her. She felt a pang of surprise for his tortured eyes and his fixed face. But her heart hardened swiftly. She had never loved him. She did not love him now.

Despite his pain, she hardens further, closes herself off in her ego, and acknowledges to herself that she never loved him.

She's a b***h I agree with DM, she's not a sympathetic character.

[Janine]

Thank you Logos. And in the entire 1000 posts i don't recall getting snooty with anyone. Must be a rarity.

Yes, that is a 'rarity' Virgil! It's 'cause I am here and keep you in-line.

Hehe actually in this entire thread, I do not think at least as long as I have been here, anyone has gotten snooty with anybody and that is truly a first for me.

Dark Muse, Yeah, truly...and if they do get 'snooty' or 'snotty' they can just pack their bags and move on, don't you think? We run a nice respectable, peaceful thread here. I hope we can keep it that way. One thing I always try to keep in mind, is to pay attention to all the posts and all the posters. Everyone has something important to add, I believe. If I ever neglect anyone, please let me know. That can quickly be remedied.

[Dark Muse]

Virgil you made some really great points here and pointed out some good ideas, nicely done, I really like your observations. Particuarly good job on pointing out the role of the class issue between the two of them. I had not in my first reading of the story really grasped that idea, other than the fact it did mention him as being a laboror and seemed to suggest she was better off than he.

[Dark Muse]

Dark Muse, Yeah, truly...and if they do get 'snooty' or 'snotty' they can just pack their bags and move on, don't you think? We run a nice respectable, peaceful thread here. I hope we can keep it that way. One thing I always try to keep in mind, is to pay attention to all the posts and all the posters. Everyone has something important to add, I believe. If I ever neglect anyone, please let me know. That can quickly be remedied.

Hehe yes so true, not to name names but there is one discussion board on the Lit. forum, that it seems wheenver I try to post there, I just get my head snapped off.

[Janine]

Oops sorry, Virgil, I didn't see you there. We must have been posting same time. I will have to read your post again. I am a little tired right now to answer it. Maybe later or maybe tomorrow. Good idea on splitting up the section into two parts since it is long. Yes, it is a like a dance of the wills I believe between the two or a tug of war. Lawrence and his wife experinced this sort of thing often themselves. I don't think there was this much of a breech ever but there certainly was their share of friction and issues to deal with.
I do think the woman is in a total state of chaos and she is acting out irrationally towards her husband. She can't seem to cope at all with any form of contact at the present with him.
I have to think more about what you wrote. Like I said I am kind of tired out right now. I need some down-time tonight. I second what Dark Muse said - you did a fine job posting here and expressing all of this. We have been discussing some of this but now it makes it even more clear.