This God thing

[Dark Muse]

So is nature above us or equal or what? It would certainly seem that we are above nature for it is not even a being; nature is a vague term. Please define.?

Well I belive in the Goddess Mother Nature, so for me Nature is a being, she is the Great Mother of All. For me the Goddess is the creator.

Though I am also Polythestic. And I do belive in a Father God or Sky God, in parnternhsip with the Mother Goddess, or Earth Goddess.

Are you New Age or something?

Actually the belief that all living things, not just humans, have souls, is a very old belief. As it happens, I am not New Age, but I am a Pagan.

[NikolaiI]

Hinduism upholds that all living things have souls, so it isn't new age.

They say we are above nature, but this is completely wrong. We are parts and parcels of nature, as nature is a thing greater than us. Just because nature doesn't write volumes of poetry or compose symphonies in our 12-tone system, doesn't mean anything at all. Nature provides us with everything, should we not serve Nature as a whole then, instead of only ourselves, and our own desires?

[Dark Muse]

Well put Nikolai

[NikolaiI]

Even far more complicated behaviour has been observed in the Animal world...but nothing close to spirituality.

It is not saying animals are necessarily spiritual, but think about how spending time in nature, and especially when its cold, is the best practice possible for spiritual enlightenment. When the environment is so pure, then the process and activities of the mind become a cascade of spirituality. Being such a connected part of nature is good in many ways; fresh air, as well. And you sleep better in nature, too. There are Asian nomadic people who travel more than 20 hours a day, and sleep only one hour a night and are completely refreshed after. They do yogi, and it is because of Yogic relaxation that it's so refreshing, but don't you think it would be more refreshing even without knowledge of the secrets of yoga?

Anywho, it would be wrong to say one way or the other. We have to accept that our terms, like spirituality, are inadquete to describe other species. Obvioulsy they are spiritual if we consider spiritual to be the highest mystic connection to nature. In American Indian spirituality, after all, animals have spirits and the spirit of animals and humans are much closer. Yet in religions such as Hinduism and Buddhism, the animal realm is a lower realm, since it's not spiritual enough to transcend out of all realms. So we can't know, and it wouldn't be honest to make a claim either way. It's just what we make of it, since, as there's no better way to put it; what we think, we think, right or wrong.

And finally, attaching 'complicated' to 'spiritual' doesn't make any sense to me.

[blazeofglory]

They do yogi, and it is because of Yogic relaxation that it's so refreshing, but don't you think it would be more refreshing even without knowledge of the secrets of yoga?

This line has a lot of substance in point of fact. Does not this corroborates the fact that animals too are spiritual? In fact they are more spiritual and in harmony with nature. We are really more villainously inclined and destroyer of nature.

In point of fact in nature there is more spirituality without having the knowledge of it indeed. Here we have more knowledge of it but less of it.

There is brutality in nature yet more in human societies. They have no religions yet they are less violence and no killings in the name religions.

Spirituality has little to do with religions and more to do with living spiritually in harmony with nature.

[Dark Muse]

Spirituality has little to do with religions and more to do with living spiritually in harmony with nature.

I completely agree with that, I think it is important to seperate spirituality from religion, for the two are not one in the same and do living independtly from each other.

[Pendragon]

Considering that humans cannot communicate with animals, and humans do not fully comprehend the way in which animals communicate with each other, and can only give a guess at what certain sounds, gestures, signals, etc... mean, and are completely baffled still be the communcation ablities of some animals, and there is no way to truly know what an animal is thinking, then how can anyone say with 100% certainty that humans are in fact the only ones that can conceive of things that do not exsist?

Wonderful point. And if you believe in Noah, who do you think told the animals to get on the ark? You ever notice during natural disasters that birds, small animals, and others get out of the buildings that fall before the quake? No, this is true, and not fantasy. During earthquakes in Mexico some years ago, they noted: "The Quakes must be over, the birds are returning." Someone told them to get out. Jesus said not one sparrow falls without notice and God doesn't care for his animals? I don't think you coulld prove that.

[Dark Muse]

It is also true that during the Tusami that happend just last year, there were several people that survied becasue even before anyone knew what was happening, the animals began to head up for higher ground and the people followed suit with the animals.

[Pendragon]

And to care enough to warn about natural disasters so that they survive and not allow them the rest of a heaven is unthinkable to me.

[blazeofglory]

Wonderful point. And if you believe in Noah, who do you think told the animals to get on the ark? You ever notice during natural disasters that birds, small animals, and others get out of the buildings that fall before the quake? No, this is true, and not fantasy. During earthquakes in Mexico some years ago, they noted: "The Quakes must be over, the birds are returning." Someone told them to get out. Jesus said not one sparrow falls without notice and God doesn't care for his animals? I don't think you coulld prove that.

Of course presentiments exist and animals are more gifted with them. We human beings intellectualize things and have opinions about everything. This is called rationalization. Our opinions or thoughts create problems and of course animals have less of them and more of instincts and instincts are powerful elements and of course they lead us to understanding nature.

[B-Mental]

When it comes to the Tsunami...You realise that there are persons that were trying to get a worldwide tsunami warning system set up prior to the Dec.26th tsunami which was so devastating. I actually spent a lot of time studying Tsunamis in 2001, all along the Pacific coast of the US and part of British Columbia. When I heard of the Tsunami on Dec.26th, I was very sad, but I new that the devastation would only get worse and worse. I still say that memorials should be built for the dead and lost from that. I would make them in the shape of pyramids with local archetectural features. These would be a place that people can go in the event of a warning. Animals may be more attuned to the natural world, but humans have memory, and the ability to prepare for these disasters.

[Dark Muse]

Many different animals also have memory, this is something that has been well stuided and observred within animals.

And I have already spoken before about varrious different animals that have thier own rites of morning for the dead that are not so different then some of ours.

[Pendragon]

Many different animals also have memory, this is something that has been well stuided and observred within animals.

And I have already spoken before about varrious different animals that have thier own rites of morning for the dead that are not so different then some of ours.

Example: Elephants according to Animal Planet, I think, it was on TV, they have something we don't: Generational Memory. An elephant will remember where a water hole is because their ancestor knew and they were born with the memory. They care for the sick as well as Dark's funeral rites.

[Etienne]

Example: Elephants according to Animal Planet, I think, it was on TV, they have something we don't: Generational Memory. An elephant will remember where a water hole is because their ancestor knew and they were born with the memory. They care for the sick as well as Dark's funeral rites.

I believe this refers to memestic memory, which is not a "genetical" transmission but a behavioral one, particularly through imitation. A non-biological evolution, if you want.

[Dark Muse]

Example: Elephants according to Animal Planet, I think, it was on TV, they have something we don't: Generational Memory. An elephant will remember where a water hole is because their ancestor knew and they were born with the memory. They care for the sick as well as Dark's funeral rites.

Elephants also have thier own version of day care, in which they will arrange playdates, which are done in shifts so each of the elephants get a bit of a break from taking care of the young and get some time to themselves.