This God thing

[Wintermute]

In many ways we are and many ways we are not. But either way we are one exceptional species on this planet. There is nothing like us.

Hi Lote,

One could say this about any animal, no? The platapus comes to mind immediately...the zebra...oh, the hippo...how about the honey bee? I don't feel exceptional. Hey and how would our views change should we, as many expect we will, find intelligence elsewhere. What an amazing universe!

Cheers,
Doug

[Dark Muse]

We superior in the sense that we can conceive of things that do not exist.

Considering that humans cannot communicate with animals, and humans do not fully comprehend the way in which animals communicate with each other, and can only give a guess at what certain sounds, gestures, signals, etc... mean, and are completely baffled still be the communcation ablities of some animals, and there is no way to truly know what an animal is thinking, then how can anyone say with 100% certainty that humans are in fact the only ones that can conceive of things that do not exsist?

[Lote-Tree]

Hi Lote,
One could say this about any animal, no? The platapus comes to mind immediately...the zebra...oh, the hippo...how about the honey bee? I don't feel exceptional. Hey and how would our views change should we, as many expect we will, find intelligence elsewhere. What an amazing universe!
Cheers,
Doug

No not any animal. We are on a category on it's own. We have evolved from our animal nature to become an exceptional species. There is nothing like us on this planet.

Considering that humans cannot communicate with animals, and humans do not fully comprehend the way in which animals communicate with each other, and can only give a guess at what certain sounds, gestures, signals, etc... mean, and are completely baffled still be the communcation ablities of some animals, and there is no way to truly know what an animal is thinking, then how can anyone say with 100% certainty that humans are in fact the only ones that can conceive of things that do not exsist?

Because no other species on this planet has demonstrated even a rudimentary spirituality. We are species on a category of it's own. There nothing like this on this planet. We are indeed exceptional.

[Dark Muse]

What about the fact that it has been documented on more then once occasion that the hippopotumus gives what appears to be a vigil of silence, both for thier own dead, as well as other animals that have died?

Or birds that mate for life, and even after thier mate has died, will not for the rest of thier life choose another mate?

In a herd of Elephants when a new calf is born, the elephants will all acutaly gather around to greet the newborn, also they will pay resepct to thier dead by gently touching the bones, skulls and tusks of thier dead with thier tunks, or thier feet. They are also said to congerate around places where the bones of thier kin lay.

There are many other animals that are known to morun for the dead.

Even ants acutally have ant cemetaries, a desginated spot where they will carry all of thier dead comrades.

[Wintermute]

We have evolved from our animal nature to become an exceptional species. There is nothing like us on this planet.

You may be exceptional Lote-Tree. I am not. And thank goodness there is nothing else like us on this planet. If there were, I fear the planet would not be.

Just out of curiosity, are you a hunter?

Much Happiness,
Doug

[Lote-Tree]

What about the fact that it has been documented on more then once occasion that the hippopotumus gives what appears to be a vigil of silence, both for thier own dead, as well as other animals that have died?

We observe attachment behaviour in Animals but not spirituality.

[Lote-Tree]

You may be exceptional Lote-Tree. I am not.

Please no self-effacement here. Our "Exceptional" nature should give us the aspirations to become the Guardians of all life forms on this planet. It no way meant arrogance of our status.

And thank goodness there is nothing else like us on this planet. If there were, I fear the planet would not be.

If there was then we could have said Spirituality is nothing special.

Just out of curiosity, are you a hunter?

Much Happiness,
Doug

What makes you think that? I am kind of "Semi-Vegetarnian"

I am against hunting for sport! That is such a ridicoulus thing!

[Dark Muse]

We observe attachment behaviour in Animals but not spirituality.

I would say that a group of Hippos giving a vigil of silence to a wilderbeast that had died is more then attachment, being that the animals had no personal connection to the wilderbeast.

[Lote-Tree]

I would say that a group of Hippos giving a vigil of silence to a wilderbeast that had died is more then attachment, being that the animals had no personal connection to the wilderbeast.

Even far more complicated behaviour has been observed in the Animal world...but nothing close to spirituality.

[Dark Muse]

According to you, meerly becasue you are of a beleif system which refuses to belive that animals could have anything like spirutaly, but still there is no way you can say for 100% you know how all animals think and how they precivie the world, or why they do the things they do.

[Lote-Tree]

According to you, meerly becasue you are of a beleif system which refuses to belive that animals could have anything like spirutaly, but still there is no way you can say for 100% you know how all animals think and how they precivie the world, or why they do the things they do.

Not at all. I would love to see Spirituality in other animals because that would mean Spirituality is nothing special. My outlook is the scientific method. My "belief" has nothing to do with it.

[Dark Muse]

Forgive my misunderstand on that point

I just personaly think it is human arrogence for people to presume that there is no possible way that any other creature can have any notion of a spirituality of any sort, particuarly people do not understand even half as much about animals as they like to think they do.

And over the years there have been countless studies and observations of animals displaying emotions or behaviors, that people once thought were unique only to them.

So who is to say spirituality is not possible?

When it has already been proven that animals do act in varrious different ways and display varrious behaviors, that do seem to be about more then just thier own surivial.

[hew2702]

Dark-Muse, may I pose a question?

What, to you, gives animal life, or any life for the matter, a speciality that deserves protecting?

In other words, what makes life, any life, sacred at all?

(Anyone can answer this, BTW )

[Dark Muse]

I think all life is sepcial in its own way, but I do not think that there needs to be a question of something being surperior over something else, and I do not think humans need to try and make themselves feel or look more special then any other living thing.

All living things have thier own speicial role to play, all are part of the ecosystem and all serve a role that help keep the planet living, if just one was completely removed, however small or great it may appear, then it can severly effect the rest of the natural order.

Nature is the most perfect and balanced system, and the reason the Earth suffers the problems it has now is becasue of man trying to work against nature becasue humans like to think themselves above Nature.

But without it, where would the human reace really be?

I think life shoudl be sacred for its own sake, and for the sake that all living things are childern of Nature, and not becasue of how humans catagorize varrious different forms of life.

As well it is part of my beleif system that all living things have souls.

[hew2702]

I think all life is sepcial in its own way, but I do not think that there needs to be a question of something being surperior over something else, and I do not think humans need to try and make themselves feel or look more special then any other living thing.

Agreed.

Nature is the most perfect and balanced system, and the reason the Earth suffers the problems it has now is becasue of man trying to work against nature becasue humans like to think themselves above Nature.

So is nature above us or equal or what? It would certainly seem that we are above nature for it is not even a being; nature is a vague term. Please define.

I think life shoudl be sacred for its own sake, and for the sake that all living things are childern of Nature, and not becasue of how humans catagorize varrious different forms of life.

That doesn't answer anything. Why is life sacred? We're all just meat-machines, why do we matter? And where did this "children of Nature" thing come from? Whos the father?

As well it is part of my beleif system that all living things have souls.

Are you New Age or something?