If god is everything, doesn't that make him evil as well as good?

[Whifflingpin]

Mazhur "I don't believe Jesus will take up all our sins,,,absurd!"
1 Corinthians 1:23 "But we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling-block, and to the Greeks foolishness;" and to Moslems absurd

But, in this forum, you should not call other religions absurd. All religious belief is absurd to non-believers, and vital to those who believe it.


Mazhur "If one does wrong he gets punished for it ----in this world. Why wouldnt he be punished by God for his evil deeds in this world as well as the hereafter?"

Because justice dictates that one is only punished once for a wrongdoing, and in proportion to the wrong.

[mazHur]

Well, I commented based on common sense, not against any religion.
It is not true that people of one religion think ill about other religions,No.A Moslem will spontaneously cease to be a Muslom if he talks even the slightest ill about Jesus or the Scriptures revealed to him. similarly, Muslims firmly believe in the exalted status of Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Lot, David, etc and you have no reason to suspect a Muslim for expressing any profanity against them or any other prophets. I only assessed from my common sense and not from any point of view of any religion. Even in Islam, there are controversial issues on whom Muslims do not agree. this doesnt mean that they are not muslims or irreligious. Atleast, I ,as a matter of intrinsic nature, try to evaluate things by dint of common sense and some rationale (total reasoning is fatal to religion, any religion )
sorry, it doesn't appeal to me that Jesus would be responssible for all the evils that the mankind goes on to commit. This philosophy hits at the very root of the purpose of Creation and good and bad.
Sorry, if the use of words hurt your feelings but please rest assure my comments were a simple inquiry of common sense.

The mouse said: "I want to find crumbs."
The dog said: "I have come to find crusts."
The simpleton said: "What you need is bread, you fools!"
The wise man said: "But you could let them have other kinds of
food..."
The simpleton was annoyed. He said: "The common denominator of
their desires is bread, not food. You are becoming too complicated. "

as collected by Idries Shah

[Whifflingpin]

"Sorry, if the use of words hurt your feelings but please rest assure my comments were a simple inquiry of common sense."

I am not a Christian, so you have not hurt my feelings.

The belief that Jesus died as a sacrifice for the sins of mankind is the central belief of Christianity. If you call the belief absurd, you are not insulting Jesus, but you are insulting Christians.

[mazHur]

I am not insulting anyone ! The thread doesn't say it is reserved for discussion of Christianity or Islam only. It's about God. If you can question God why can't I question a question of simple common sense? Moreover, as I believe in Jesus I am partly christian!! So, if you are not a Christian be not more loyal than the king. It appears from your writing that you have been hurt more than anyone by my difference in opinion.

Were this a specifically Christian thread i would turn off immediately.

[Whifflingpin]

"It appears from your writing that you have been hurt more than anyone by my difference in opinion."

Not hurt at all, but I think it is wrong of you to describe the central belief of another religion as absurd. It may be a wrong belief, and you are free to say so if you want to, and to question as much as you like. But to call the belief absurd is insulting.

It also makes you appear somewhat narrow minded, although that is not my concern. Clearly, many highly intelligent people, for two thousand years or so, have found the idea of Christ's sacrifice not only within the bounds of reason but also a belief to shape their lives by. They may all be wrong, but it would be wiser to try and understand the ideas behind the belief than just to dismiss them as absurd.

[mazHur]

I guess we are not discussing Christianity on this thread. If you are so narrow minded to twist the words to a specific religious niche, moreso not even related to that religion, you better not plead for others.

Just on another thread someone is saying Bible was not revealed to Jesus, does that mean he is insulting Christianity??

For those who don't have tolerance in matters of religion and just try to catch words in a general discussion to exploit their vested interest, it's better for them to keep off such discussion lest they get hurt and hurt. Such people are rightly called 'fundamentalists''........as they have nothing else to discuss but to compel others to go by what they believe to be true or false!

[Whifflingpin]

"Only in the Zoroastrian religion do we have god splitted into two: Ishwar---good god and Ehrman---god of evil. But, then, how many followers of that religion do you have in the world?"

Back on topic.
I, at least, follow Zarathustra in believing that evil has an entirely separate source from good.

As written in verse 2 of the 45th Yasna:
"I shall now speak about the twin spirits which have existed since the creation's dawn. Of the two spirits thus did the Holy one speak to his twin, the evil one; between us two, neither thoughts, nor teachings, neither will, nor beliefs, neither words, nor inner selves accord, and they are quite separate from each other."

[Scheherazade]

W a r n i n g

Please do not personalise your comments.

[hellsapoppin]

yes, it means he creates evil to give man and jinn the CHOICE.
it doesn't mean He himself is evil...

Again, you need to read where it says in the Bible ''that which is of flesh is flesh ...'' which means that something can only come from its source.

Therefore, evil can only come from evil. Since the Bible's god creates evil, it means he is evil.

[crazefest456]

hellsapoppin:

I guess I understand what you mean; but doesn't the quote refer to an inward 'conscience', the sense of morality and ethics that is programmed in our souls. And our souls are separate from our creation, God created us with brain, heart, other organ systems, as a zygote, then breathed into us some part of his spirit (what you mean by the above-mentioned quote). Our desires are worldly, that are almost self-generated (contributions by satan) because of our ability given by God. Our desires only become evil when we become extremely infatuated by them, and are shed, along with our physical self at the point of death.
I don't know, really, what do you think?

[mazHur]

God is not Evil.

''that which is of flesh is flesh ...''

if taken literally it means only living things can procreate.........
metaphorically, it seems to mean that the nature of a thing cannot change. For example, take milk as the basis. One can make so many things out of it such as cheese,butter, curd,yogurt etc etc but all these still contain the basic thing, Milk.

The saying does not connote that God is evil. If He were so this world wouldnt exist. Afterall is any one there who can stop him??

I recall one analogy and it might help to comprehend the subject

Suppose you are doing a test in a class and the teacher tells you that you sont cheat. During the exam the teacher finds that one guy was cheating. So, do you think that the teacher was responsible for the act of his student??
The teacher taught 'good' to the student but yet he disobeyed him and opted for 'evil' deeds. It's the same way with God and the teachings of all holy books where the Master is God and the 'students' . Since God has given men the will it is the man who is to be blamed and held for his wrongdoings, not God.

[hellsapoppin]

``Since God has given men the will it is the man who is to be blamed and held for his wrongdoings, not God.``


We're going around in circles as you simply do not understand what is in the Bible. Again, if you would only read what is in that book rather than going in circles, you would know that it clearly states that this same god knew and has known all along who would be saved even before he created the world.

Suppose somebody was impoverished and stole in order to eat and survive, and had no other means of a livelihood, and dies or is killed before he could repent, must he spend eternity in hell?

The Bible is perfectly clear --- god is evil because he creates all evil.

[mazHur]

No, He isn't ,Might be some misprint telling you the other way round.

[hellsapoppin]

Oh, I see --- you've been pulling my leg all along.

Funny thing is, the Bible tells us there are pre-Adamic races walking the earth and have been doing so for ''generations'' before Adam was created {Genesis 2:4}. Biblical and Christian teaching tell us that Adam and his lot came into existence around 4004 BC. Science proves humans walked the earth for millienia before that time and that these races still exist to this day. Native Americans and people descended of their ancestry in Asia serves as an example.

These people suffer just as do Adamic races, sin every bit as much, suffer, and have joy as well. Centuries and millenia before Adam they suffered from war, pestilence, and starvation just like everyone else. Yet, their ancestors did not know what the Garden of Eden was. So how is it that they, too, were affected by the Fall?

Obviously, it is because evil has always existed. It existed long before Adam walked the earth. And what does it ultimately mean?

It means that evil had to be created by another agency. And the Bible tells us in Isaiah 45:7 what that agency is. Therefore, contrary to Christian teaching, it is your god who created that evil which complies with what the Bible teaches.

[mazHur]

  hellsapoppin -----/god is evil because he creates all evil./

Sorry, I cannot agree with this statement. It is just like saying that Alfred Nobel, for example, was evil because he invented dynamite or, more broadly speaking, scientists are evil because they prepared the tools for human destruction.