How to have immortality without God... Why does the world exist?.

[mazHur]

How do we know that we are not immortal?We dont know with certainty whether we had a previous life or not. And we dont know what happens after we die. So we just might be immortal after all. We just dont know it at this time.

Your comments allude to the theory of Aavagon (reincarnation) but this theory is NOT universally accepted.

[oracle13]

Well, the burden of proof lies upon people who believe we may be immortal in this case. All empirical evidence suggests that we are conceived as entirely new beings and end our lives in death. There is no perceivable evidence to suggest that we are immortal.

Western culture is much more sceptical of religious belief in the 21rst century. It seems odd to me, therefore, that belief in a human 'soul' or 'spirit' is still so prevalent. Much more sensible to me is the term 'consciousness.' The idea that the soul is somehow seperable from the body seems odd to me.

edit: this post was directed at Timur

[crazefest456]

So if we assume that there is no god or higher being, why do we expect ourselves to be immortal? Does this eternal state serve us much purpose?
The world exists as we exist, it's pretty much a cycle in any form of creation: We die, we leave behind our belongings (vanity and ideas and descendants), as do plants and animals, who die and enrich the soil for more life. So if there is no end in our cycle, then consequently, the world (our tangible universe) shouldn't end either.
But of course, every cycle has disruptions that might lure it away from the normal, causing its own self destruction. A modern example is our treatment to our environment; not only is the biosphere deteriorating, but it's KNOWN that there's is a very low chance that we can reverse this danger. But, still, we know that the earth tends to repair itself immediately, even if something destroys all life on earth, nature prevails, eventually.
Then comes the question that how is the earth doing this? How are humans functioning without a supreme being(s)? We know how the humans can think (by electric-chemical impulses) or breath (movement of a cartilage-diaphragm), etc., but what is really doing all this? String theory seems to explain this (I don't know how, I need to read on it), but what forces are doing all this in unison, simultaneously among innumerable systems? Why should the universe even exist if there is no immortality? Is our collective consciousness the reason for our immortality (in this hypothetical situation)? But isn't this collective consciousness a supreme thing anyway?

I guess I have no answer, just more questions. Maybe everyone, and no one can answer this question? Maybe there is no answer because this situation can't exist?

[mayneverhave]

as comforting the thought of the our tangible universe existing after i die is, it doesn't do much for me personally.

the simple fact is, death and the end of consciousness negates any enjoyment i can receive from the idea that i live on in memory.

of course, it's a completely different argument to say that this idea is not comforting. Many people take solace in the fact that they may live on through their children or works.

I, for one, refuse such naivety

[Remarkable]

Excuse me,but why should there be immortality?Have you ever imagined how it would be to live forever and ever and ever and ever and never be able to escape?It is a very prosaic question,but don't you think you would be tired?In the end,there is a point at death,which I believe everyone has very well understood.

[mazHur]

Immortality without aging would be Okay for me, other wise there's no sense in living for ever with old age and disease. What's the fun of it then?

An oriental poet rightly said:

Oh, God, what good are these houris to me?
Aeons of time old, these hags !
No, i won't accept such rotten stuff
If you opt to send me to heaven
In the hereafter !

[blazeofglory]

Maybe there is no reason for our existence. Maybe we just exist.

You are cent percent right, and there are no nuances of doubt in your ideas, and of course we do not know why do we exist. I am really moved by the honesty with you stated.

Who knows why we exist. Do scientists know? Do philosophers? Do spiritualists know? All guess and make hypotheses or presumptions.

Maybe some know, some metaphysics may have revelations or the Bible, the Gita, the Koran or the Buddha. I am not full convinced.

I am sorry I cannot subscribe to any particular theory that can convincingly answer or have answers to this question, the question of existence. This is the most harrowing question.

Nothing is more interesting than this thing of course.

[blazeofglory]

Excuse me,but why should there be immortality?Have you ever imagined how it would be to live forever and ever and ever and ever and never be able to escape?It is a very prosaic question,but don't you think you would be tired?In the end,there is a point at death,which I believe everyone has very well understood.

That there is death and everything has to come to an end or to a full-stop is something abominably true, but there is a renewal. Life may again manifest in but in different forms. There will be something after death.

Everything is immortal.

[stlukesguild]

I find that almost all humans require some sort of meaning or signifigance in their lives in order to be happy, or to feel that life is worth living.

I believe the opposite. A life without any guidance or meaning provides for the ultimate freedom. Dostoevsky is often misquoted as saying "without god, anything is possible". Well take that a step further, "without meaning, anything is possible". A universe without absolutes or objective truth and value is essentially the most free environment possible, there are no limits.

Yes... this is true. Without God and without meaning life has no limits. The ultimate freedom. But what does this mean? The author Peter S. Beagle suggested something of this in his marvelous book on the 15th century Flemish painter, Heironymus Bosch:

... it is hard for me to remember a time when I did not know... that there was nothing human beings would not do to one another, for the pure pleasure of it, and that their evil will neither be prevented in this world nor punished in the next. The Nazis may or may not have lost a war, but their howl of triumph still echoes everywhere, every minute. Nothing is forbidden, there is no covenant. The lightning does not come. Civilization has always flourished in the shadow of this knowledge, and our own culture has even trained itself to climb it, like a morning glory vine. We call it "the existential dilemma" and "the human condition", but (the 15th century) called it the Devil.

[NikolaiI]

"Without God"
-
There are some science fiction authors who have put forward in books that a being we might consider God is nothing more than a human, sent back in time;
you see, humans evolve powers over time and space, perhaps we become energy beings, and then one goes back in time to watch over the race, to make sure they don't die off.

[Adolescent09]

Perhaps we try too hard to seek consistent answers for questions not placed within the realm of mortal understanding. Longevity is the closest man has ever approached to immortality. Biological fact and scientific evidence has disreputed physiological immortality to the stuff found in myths and prattled about by gypsies. Memory is the closest thing tantamount to immortality and the only device left to immortalize our ancestral figures.

Someone before mentioned that memories are not saliently tangible since the phenomenon that brought us into this world can just as swiftly and inconspicuously take us out; this is true. But immortality is something we at the present and generations ahead of our time can only ponder until "death do us part".

Only in death will we be privy to the never mortally conceived explanation on the essence of our existence and life in general.

the simple fact is, death and the end of consciousness negates any enjoyment i can receive from the idea that i live on in memory.

of course, it's a completely different argument to say that this idea is not comforting. Many people take solace in the fact that they may live on through their children or works.

I, for one, refuse such naivety

Enjoyment? That sounds ulterior if not a tad narcissistic. Who contended that you, I or anyone else's relevance in death was joy? Memory is the only tangible evidence of immortality. The relief or disgust you feel from that self-evident fact has no place in this argument. Both solace and enjoyment are mortal comforts, attained and desired by conscientious individuals. When we, or if we depart that conscientious state in death who can say that we keep the mortal passions of solace, joy and content?

[hyde park]

Immortality in what way? I do not care what is left behind me, the things I do and are visible to others, I dont consider of much importance. But each of us as an individual must "feel" inside, that there is something more to life...If there was nothing after death the life itself would not make any sense at all. Our existence - for no reason?

[blazeofglory]

"No, no, what I mean is, why are we here at all? Why are we on this Earth?"

"Because the Earth can support life."

"Nevermind."

"Thank you, I will."

Nikolai, you are a manifestation of truth. I like this answer and of course it answers the question I had earlier on ' why are we here ? ' Indeed in a sentence you answered it. With this I am sure no profundities go unplumbed. Really unfolding!!!

[Remarkable]

That there is death and everything has to come to an end or to a full-stop is something abominably true, but there is a renewal. Life may again manifest in but in different forms. There will be something after death.

Everything is immortal.

Well,that is a physics law,but here we are speaking of metaphysics.In the end,how could it be immortal?How could a sould be transferred from one lifeform to the other?We don't even know what the soul is!In fact,the soul might very well be a creation of ours and what does its work is the mind and some feelings or insticts tirggered by hormones.Very unromantic,no?But so are also the reasons why it rains,why it's hot and cold and...why we die.

As for why the world exists,the answer is simple:because many and many years ago big collisions happend all through the universe(they still do,however)and elements mainly coming from dark matter formed today's matter.The purpose is quite another thing.We don't know it yet.But we are on the right track I believe,now that we at least know the reason.

[mayneverhave]

Enjoyment? That sounds ulterior if not a tad narcissistic. Who contended that you, I or anyone else's relevance in death was joy? Memory is the only tangible evidence of immortality. The relief or disgust you feel from that self-evident fact has no place in this argument. Both solace and enjoyment are mortal comforts, attained and desired by conscientious individuals. When we, or if we depart that conscientious state in death who can say that we keep the mortal passions of solace, joy and content?

I think you are misunderstanding me slightly. I agree with you that memory is the only tangible evidence of immortality. If death ends consciousness, we can't very well feel happy, sad, discontent, or any other feeling towards how we lived our lives because we are dead and no longer conscious.

I am saying that while we are living - and therefore conscious - a lot people take solace in the fact that they will be remembered after their death. In my opinion, this solace/comfort is evidence of either naivety or ignorance on the part of the thinker. At the risk of quoting the movie Fight Club, we have to realize that one day we are going to die. Or better yet, live in the knowledge of our inevitable death like Heidegger's "being-towards death".

Our posthumous reputation seems rather irrelevant when we can have no awareness of it.