The Kraut Konspiracy

[SleepyWitch]

Thank you.

And I don't know if this helps at all but a lot of the Germans around here are German Russians so, I don't know if there was a particular area in Germany where a lot of those immigrants who made their way to Russia were from. My grandmother was from Pommern? Does that name make sense? I know it started with Pomme... My brother said it was an area where there were a lot of Scandinavian settlers once upon a time, way, way back but I think he might just be making that up to make us more Scandinavian than we really are.

Pommern is in Poland today, but apparently some people regard the Baltic Sea coast of Germany as a part of Pommern, as well. hehe, I forgot my history lessons, but I think Poland and the Baltic region (Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia) had a lot of German as well as Russian settlements, as borders and territories in Europe kept shifting before the invention of the 'nation state' and even after.
edit: I think there were some vikings there too, but that must have been quite a long time ago

[Idril]

Pommern is in Poland today, but apparently some people regard the Baltic Sea coast of Germany as a part of Pommern, as well. hehe, I forgot my history lessons, but I think Poland and the Baltic region (Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia) had a lot of German as well as Russian settlements, as borders and territories in Europe kept shifting before the invention of the 'nation state' and even after.
edit: I think there were some vikings there too, but that must have been quite a long time ago

I got the impression from my brother that yes, it was a long, long time ago, as you said, in the era of the Vikings. He has this theory that while we are supposed mutts, Norwegian, Swedish, German and English, that the German and English sides may very well have Scandinavian roots...and it's possible I guess, since Vikings were in that area of Germany and our English roots seem to be of Norman origin but I just don't see why it really matters.

Anyway....

It's interesting that Pommern is primarily in Poland, I didn't know that. I wonder...people who were born there while it was considered part of Germany and so consider themselves German, once it became part of Poland, are they considered, historically, German or Polish? Or is that a really touchy subject? The changing borders and faces of Europe just fascinate me. And I'm sorry I'm turning this into a history lesson.

[SleepyWitch]

Anyway....

It's interesting that Pommern is primarily in Poland, I didn't know that. I wonder...people who were born there while it was considered part of Germany and so consider themselves German, once it became part of Poland, are they considered, historically, German or Polish? The changing borders and faces of Europe just fascinate me. And I'm sorry I'm turning this into a history lesson.

haha, that's OK.
I think most Germans who lived in Poland or Czech Rep before the end of WWII were expelled or fled of their own accord when the Russians liberated Poland. Some of those who fled had their property seized and redistributed. That's what happened in Silesia (near the Polish/Czech border) and Sudetenland (Czech Rep.). Under the Beneš decrees, German Czechs (as well as other minorities) had their Czech passport confiscated and their property seized. Some people are outraged about the expulsion while some would say it's only fair, seeing as Germany invaded those countries in WWII. There are some associations of Sudetendeutsche who are quite stubborn about this and still demand today to be given back their land in Czech Rep or be paid a compensation. This is a hot issues in Germany because the the federal government tends to be level-headed and let by-gones be by-gones, whereas the former Bavarian Prime Minister supported the Sudetendeutsche against the Czech government. The new Bavarian Prime Minister is aiming for a compromise, though, so maybe this matter will finally be resolved after 60 years.

I think those people were considered both Polish and German or Czech and German. I'm not so sure about this... but my grandfather was born in Czech Rep. in 1911 and lived there until WWII started. He even married a Czech woman (his first wife, not my grandmother) and had a son. I don't think anyone was interested whether he was Czech or German. My grandfather was German, but he had a Czech passport. So I think dual nationality was quite common back then? When Hitler invaded Czech Rep, my grandfather wanted to join the Czech army to defend his fatherland (i.e. Czech Rep.), but they took his passport away and he had to flee to Germany.

PS: There's also the German state Mecklenburg-Vorpommern (Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania), which is in the north east of Germany. this is the western part of Pommern.

[barbara0207]

Noch ein Mass Bier, bitte.

Here you are, B-Mental. And for everyone else on the thread, too.

[B-Mental]

mmm vielen Dank, Fraulein Barbara0207

[barbara0207]

mmm vielen Dank, Fraulein Barbara0207

You're welcome.

But no more Frauleins in Germany. Nowadays there are only Herr and Frau.

(Please call me just Barbara)

Many people think Germany - that's just Bavaria. But I live in the north west - so here's a picture of a typical castle in Westphalia. It's a castle surrounded by moats and was built between 1540 and 1545. It was the home of the poetess you can see in my avatar.



In mountainous areas, castles were mostly built on steep mountains or rocks in order to defend them more easily against enemies. Where I live, the land is mostly flat, so water (moats) had to do the trick.

In case you're interested - here's a slide show of some 100 castles in Westphalia, some of them 500 years old or more. Just click on any of the castles shown, and a new page will open up. Then click on "W-Burgen Fotos" and the show begins.

http://images.google.de/imgres?imgur...icial%26sa%3DG

[papayahed]

der kugelscriber ist gelp.


My grandfather spoke german, I've always wished that I was old enough to ask him to teach me some german.

[Virgil]

Barbara - Thanks for the photo and the beer too , but now I'm curious. Who's picture is your avatar?

[SleepyWitch]

thanks for the castles, barbara!

I've unearthed another treasure of German culture the incredibly funny Swabian folk song Uff der Schwäbsche Eisebahne (On the Swabian Railway). Swabia is a region that straddles the border between Bavaria and Baden-Württemberg (a state in the South-West of Germany, next to Bavaria).
I found a very nice English translation on wiki. it's not very close to the original, but it rhymes

Drunken Swabians singing the song in Swabian dialect

Lyrics: English Translation (abbreviated)(

1. Swabian Railroad Transportation
Stops at many a strange location
Shtoogert, Oolm and Beeberoch
Meckaboira, Doorlesboch.

2. On the Swabian iron horse
A farmer wants to ride, of course
Went to the counter, tipped his hat
Ticket please, and that is that

3. He had bought a goat that day
And so it wouldn’t run away
He tied it to the train’s caboose
With a strong and sturdy noose

4. Now, my goat, run straight ahead
When we stop you will be fed
Farmer said and lit his pipe,
Sitting down next to his wife


5. At a whistlestop he found
Only goat’s head dangling, bound
To the hook at train’s rear end
This was not what he has meant

6. Anger now grew in our peasant
Using words lots less than pleasant
Flung the head, what daring deed
Right before conductor’s feet

7. That’s the ballad, as you see
Of a tragic odyssey
Of a goat, a Swabian train,
A farmer cursing all in vain

Lyrics in Schwabian
1. Auf de' schwäb'sche Eisebahne
Gibt's gar viele Haltstatione:
Schtuagart, Ulm, ond Biberach,
Meckabeure, Durlesbach.
|: Trulla, trulla, trulla-la, :|
Schtuagart, Ulm, and Biberach,
Meckabeure, Durlesbach.

2.Auf de schwäb'sche Eisebahne
Gibt's au viele Restauratione,
Wo mer ess' und trinka ka',
Alles, was der Maga ma'.
|: Trulla, trulla, trulla-la, :|
Wo mer ess' und trinka ka',
Alles, was der Maga ma'.

3. Auf de schwäbsche Eisebahne
Braucht ma keine Postillone.
Was uns sonst das Posthorn blies,
Pfeifet jetzt die Lokomotiv.
|: Trulla, trulla, trulla-la, :|
Was uns sonst das Posthorn blies,
Pfeifet jetzt die Lokomotiv.

4. Auf de schwäbsche Eisebahne
Könne Küh' und Ochse fahre,
D'Studente fahre erste Klass,
S'mache das halt nur zum Spaß.
|: Trulla, trulla, trulla-la, :|
D'Studente fahre erste Klass,
S'mache das halt nur zum Spaß.

5. Auf de schwäb'sche Eisebahne
Derfet Kieh' und Ochse fahre.
Biable, Mädle, Weib, und Ma,
Kurzum alls, was zahla ka.
|: Trulla, trulla, trulla-la, :|
Biable, Mädle, Weib, und Ma,
Kurzum alls, was zahla ka.

6. Wenn e Gleckle tut erklinge,
Tän glei älle z'samma springe.
Älles, was e Karte hot,
Möcht jetzt mit dem Bahnzug fort.
|: Trulla, trulla, trulla-la, :|
Älles, was e Karte hot,
Möcht jetzt mit dem Bahnzug fort.

7. Männer, die im G'sicht ganz bärtig,
Schreiet laut: "Jetzt ist es fertig"
Springet in die Wage nei,
Machet Löchle in d'Karte nei.
|: Trulla, trulla, trulla-la, :|
Springet in die Wage nei,
Machet Löchle in d'Karte nei.

8. Auf de schwäb'sche Eisebahne
Wollt emol e Beierle fahre,
Goaht an Schalter lupft de Hut:
"Oi Billettle, send so gut!"
|: Trulla, trulla, trulla-la, :|
Goaht an Schalter lupft de Hut:
"Oi Billettle, send so gut!"


9. Oinen Bock hat er sich kaufet
Und daß er ihm it verdlaufet,
Bindet ehn der gute Ma,
A de hintre Wage na.
|: Trulla, trulla, trulla-la, :|
Bindet ehn der gute Ma,
A de hintre Wage na.

10. "Böckle, tu no wacker springe.
Z'fresse werd i dir scho bringe."
Also schwätz der gut Ma',
Zündt' sei Maserpfeifle a'.
|: Trulla, trulla, trulla-la, :|
Also schwätz der gut Ma',
Zündt' sei Maserpfeifle a'.

11. "Böckle, tue nuer woidle springe,
's Fresse wer' i dir scho bringe."
Zündt sei stinkichs Pfeifle a,
Hockt si zu sei'm Weible na.
|: Trulla, trulla, trulla-la, :|
Zündt sei stinkichs Pfeifle a,
Hockt si zu sei'm Weible na.

12. Wia der Zug no wieder staut,
D'r Bauer noch sei'm Böckle schaut,
Find't er bloß no Grind und Soil
An dem hintre Wagedoil.
|: Trulla, trulla, trulla-la, :|
Find't er bloß no Kopf und Seil
An dem hintre Wageteil.

13. 's packt de Baure a Baurezore,
Packt de Geißbock bei de Hore (=Hörner),
Schmeißt en, was er schmeiße ka,
Dem Konduktör an 'n Ranza na.
|: Trulla, trulla, trulla-la, :|
Schmeißt en, was er schmeiße ka,
Dem Konduktör an 'n Ranza na.

14. "So, jetz kannsch de Schade zahle,
Warum bisch so schnell au gfahre!
Du alloi bisch schuld do dra,
Daß i d' Goiß verlaure ha!"
|: Trulla, trulla, trulla-la, :|
Du alloi bisch schuld do dra,
Daß i d' Goiß verlaure ha!"

15. Des isch des Lied von sellem Baure,
Der de Geißbock hat verlaure.
Geißbock und sei traurigs Ende':
Himmel Schtuegart Sapperment.
|: Trulla, trulla, trulla-la, :|
Geißbock und sei traurigs Ende':
Himmel Schtuegart Sapperment.

16. So jetzt wär des Liedle g'songe,
Hot's euch reacht in d'Ohre klonge,
Stoßet mit de Gläser a',
Aufs Wohl der schwäb'sche Eise'bahn.
|: Trulla, trulla, trulla-la, :|
Stoßet mit de Gläser a',
Aufs Wohl der schwäb'sche Eise'bahn.

[barbara0207]

Barbara - Thanks for the photo and the beer too , but now I'm curious. Who's picture is your avatar?

It's Annette von Droste-Hülshoff, one of the most important German poetesses, who lived in the castle above (it's about 50 km from where I live). In my signature you can find the first stanza of her most famous ballad: Der Knabe im Moor (The Lad in the Moor). Unfortunately I can't find a translation on the net, and I find it very hard to translate as it's poetry and some of it may get lost in translation.

[Lily Adams]

I am of German descent. Hoorar.

*chows down sauerkraut*

Nice thread!

[SleepyWitch]

welcome to the conspiracy, Lily

[barbara0207]

Here's a picture from my hometown. The river that goes through it is called Ems.



The River Ems outside the town.

[Virgil]

It's Annette von Droste-Hülshoff, one of the most important German poetesses, who lived in the castle above (it's about 50 km from where I live). In my signature you can find the first stanza of her most famous ballad: Der Knabe im Moor (The Lad in the Moor). Unfortunately I can't find a translation on the net, and I find it very hard to translate as it's poetry and some of it may get lost in translation.

Thank you Barbara. I'm afraid I know so little of German literature. Shame on me. I must find time to learn some. Lovely pictures of your home town and area. Did you take the one with the sunset? It is a magnificent picture.

[barbara0207]

Lovely pictures of your home town and area. Did you take the one with the sunset? It is a magnificent picture.

No, I can't take any credit for them, they're courtesy Google. But my father used to photograph a lot when he still lived, and he often did similar views of the river. That's why this photo appealed to me so much.