How to have immortality without God... Why does the world exist?.

[mazHur]

Let us see if we can find an answer to the following :

How to have immortality without God... Why does the world exist?.

[aXis]

honestly, im not very religious... so i have no clue why the world exists... there's no other rationality for our existence than god :O

[Bakiryu]

I'm not very religious either, and I suppose the world exists because a collection of elements became a planet billions of years ago like all the other planets and stars in our galaxy.

[mazHur]

Ever thought how those elements got arranged in a specific fashion to constitute this universe and all it contains? Who arranged them in their positive order and who will disarrange them and when and why??

[Bakiryu]

Ever thought how those elements got arranged in a specific fashion to constitute this universe and all it contains? Who arranged them in their positive order and who will disarrange them and when and why??

they arranged themselves, of course, through trial and error everything was formed. And I suppose everything will just disarrange itself when there's not enough materials to keep it as it is.

I do not believe there's an such a thing as an actual, conscious deity that actually cares for this human race.

[blazeofglory]

Let us see if we can find an answer to the following :

How to have immortality without God... Why does the world exist?.

This is an eternal question and is indeed very disturbing and intriguing too.

We all exist, and that is why I write for the forum, and indeed we live here together and are spirited so that we animate one another and can make others feel like living.

But why do so?

Why do we exist?

In terms of cosmic space and time we are fleeting. in perpetual flux and evaporate like morning smokes or vanish like bubbles in the sea.

Yet why we have an ego? Why do we feel we exist as if we are immortal.
All these questions beguile me and set me restive for hours.

That all of us exist is a fact and that is why we are connected. That every creature is born to die and indeed all are living beings deferring deaths.
Yet we keep on accumulating things, ideas, possessions, wealth and the like and why do we do so is a question.

I have a thousand and one questions

[jon1jt]

why do we exist and what does god have to do with it?? i thank god for red wine and cold beer to forget about these questions.

[schadenfreude]

Maybe there is no reason for our existence. Maybe we just exist.

[oracle13]

Whenever I have to answer this question (it sometimes just springs into my head out of nowhere) I turn to two main arguments.

1. Existentialism.
2. The fact that there are so many things that make me happy in life.

The main doctrine of existentialism that I have taken away from reading is that existence is absurd without belief in a higher purpose - but the recognition of this fact allows me to realise that my existance will be defined by...my existence. If that makes sense. And if I concentrate on everything that brings me joy - art, sport, women, etc, then my existence is predominately a happy one. Somehow or other, I exist and I'm alive, so I might as well concentrate on giving myself the most happiness while I do!

[NikolaiI]

The question why for me is answered by the directive to make this century much better than anything previous. Not the century beginning at 2000, but beginning at 2007, even more precisely, at this moment; at a moment a week ago. "The world" is not Earth, but my own world, the current time, and the future...

That's what came to mind. How to have immortality without God? Who can manifest God? Immortality is basically infinity; happiness that changes lives for the better.

[mayneverhave]

I don't feel any type of immortality is possible.

Ultimately, the greatest humans in history, Shakespeare, Napoleon, Julius Caesar, are all dust.

One could argue that they live on in memory. This is nonsense. Of course the memory of many a man lives on after he dies, but how could that man appreciate his posthumus reputation, since, after all, it's posthumus. He is dead; cares and appreciations are beyond him.

Secondly, despite Shakespeare's lofty reputation (I will continue to return to him as an example because of his universal appreciation), if the human race were concievably whiped out, say by nuclear war, Shakespeare's reputation would be whiped out.
Could immortality be found in something as fragile as memory? In mere seconds memories may be lost and a "soul" will become oblivion.


Although I personally disagree with a cyclical view of history (eternal recurrence, etc.), it could provide a type of immortality, or at least give our thoughts and actions more meaning and signifigance, like in the "what we do in life echoes in eternity" line from Gladiator.

If the universe continues expanding until it reverts back to one singular point, only to "big bang" yet again, endlessly, immortality, at least for history and matter, could exist. But then again, that disregards any life, especially humans.


But I digress..

And as for what schadenfreude said about existence.

"Maybe there is no reason for our existence. Maybe we just exist."

I couldn't agree more.

I find that almost all humans require some sort of meaning or signifigance in their lives in order to be happy, or to feel that life is worth living.

I believe the opposite. A life without any guidance or meaning provides for the ultimate freedom. Dostoevsky is often misquoted as saying "without god, anything is possible". Well take that a step further, "without meaning, anything is possible". A universe without absolutes or objective truth and value is essentially the most free environment possible, there are no limites.
Nihilism, in this light, is an optimistic undertaking.


People need to read more Camus.

[NikolaiI]

"No, no, what I mean is, why are we here at all? Why are we on this Earth?"

"Because the Earth can support life."

"Nevermind."

"Thank you, I will."

[oracle13]

I have a few clashing views on religion and happiness which I wanted to get some opinions on. I was watching a debate between Richard Dawkins and...someone McGrathy (?) about the existence of the God and the usefulness of religion in society. Its on google video if you want to watch it, I'm afraid it wasn't actually all that interesting but nonetheless it raised a few interesting points (for me anyway).

The main contradiction in beliefs I have is this. I believe that those who have faith in the Catholic God or any other deity are simply allowing their existential angst to manifest itself in an entirely natural way. Yet at the same time, allowing people to hold beliefs that can cause grave harm to others (fundamentalists of all kinds) seems foolish, especially if these beliefs are entirely fictional.

Should I be opposed to religion entirely, like Dawkins, on the basis that a belief in something that isn't real is slowing down 'real' human progress? Or should I be tolerant and accept that many people find deep meaning and spirituality through religious belief - perhaps a deeper happiness than a life without religion can give?

I know this is wildly off topic but this seems to be the way my thoughts have led me.

[NikolaiI]

Human progress has stagnated and we have switched back to survival, and Dawkins' opinions and theories have nothing to do with that. One problem is our thinking. We think we have come a long way in psychology, for example, but only the very, very best psychologists of the (last) century came anywhere near the spiritual heights of certain past teachers like Milarepa, and others. Seriously, if you read what Milarepa wrote, you'll see it completely blows everything else out of the water. As in, how deep it is, and all that.

To get back to the topic, I just wanted to say that although I agree with Schad, oracle, and maynever, I'm a little more open-minded about it than maynever. I don't assume that I truly know anything about time, or immortality. I do agree basically the only chance for immortality humans have is the eternal return idea, but I don't discount it. Perhaps one moment is equivalent to eternity. I've read this in sacred texts- one moment is equal to ten thousand years, and I like it.

[Timur]

How do we know that we are not immortal?We dont know with certainty whether we had a previous life or not. And we dont know what happens after we die. So we just might be immortal after all. We just dont know it at this time.