D.H. Lawrence's Short Stories Thread

[Virgil]

I googled images of Taormina and I have to post some. It will give a feel for the setting in "Sun."











I think you can see some of the cypress trees that are mentioned in the story.

[Janine]

Virgil, those photos are wonderful! THANKS for finding them and posting! Wow, I am booking my airfare, as we speak. I think I need a little sun!

I'll answer you last post after I have my dinner.

For now here is the poem:

Snake

A snake came to my water-trough
On a hot, hot day, and I in pyjamas for the heat,
To drink there.
In the deep, strange-scented shade of the great dark carob-tree
I came down the steps with my pitcher
And must wait, must stand and wait, for there he was at the trough before
me.
He reached down from a fissure in the earth-wall in the gloom
And trailed his yellow-brown slackness soft-bellied down, over the edge of
the stone trough
And rested his throat upon the stone bottom,
i o And where the water had dripped from the tap, in a small clearness,
He sipped with his straight mouth,
Softly drank through his straight gums, into his slack long body,
Silently.
Someone was before me at my water-trough,
And I, like a second comer, waiting.
He lifted his head from his drinking, as cattle do,
And looked at me vaguely, as drinking cattle do,
And flickered his two-forked tongue from his lips, and mused a moment,
And stooped and drank a little more,
Being earth-brown, earth-golden from the burning bowels of the earth
On the day of Sicilian July, with Etna smoking.
The voice of my education said to me
He must be killed,
For in Sicily the black, black snakes are innocent, the gold are venomous.
And voices in me said, If you were a man
You would take a stick and break him now, and finish him off.
But must I confess how I liked him,
How glad I was he had come like a guest in quiet, to drink at my water-trough
And depart peaceful, pacified, and thankless,
Into the burning bowels of this earth?
Was it cowardice, that I dared not kill him? Was it perversity, that I longed to talk to him? Was it humility, to feel so honoured?
I felt so honoured.
And yet those voices:
If you were not afraid, you would kill him!
And truly I was afraid, I was most afraid, But even so, honoured still more
That he should seek my hospitality
From out the dark door of the secret earth.
He drank enough
And lifted his head, dreamily, as one who has drunken,
And flickered his tongue like a forked night on the air, so black,
Seeming to lick his lips,
And looked around like a god, unseeing, into the air,
And slowly turned his head,
And slowly, very slowly, as if thrice adream,
Proceeded to draw his slow length curving round
And climb again the broken bank of my wall-face.
And as he put his head into that dreadful hole,
And as he slowly drew up, snake-easing his shoulders, and entered farther,
A sort of horror, a sort of protest against his withdrawing into that horrid black hole,
Deliberately going into the blackness, and slowly drawing himself after,
Overcame me now his back was turned.
I looked round, I put down my pitcher,
I picked up a clumsy log
And threw it at the water-trough with a clatter.
I think it did not hit him,
But suddenly that part of him that was left behind convulsed in undignified haste.
Writhed like lightning, and was gone
Into the black hole, the earth-lipped fissure in the wall-front,
At which, in the intense still noon, I stared with fascination.
And immediately I regretted it.
I thought how paltry, how vulgar, what a mean act!
I despised myself and the voices of my accursed human education.
And I thought of the albatross
And I wished he would come back, my snake.
For he seemed to me again like a king,
Like a king in exile, uncrowned in the underworld,
Now due to be crowned again.
And so, I missed my chance with one of the lords
Of life.
And I have something to expiate:
A pettiness.

Taormina, 1923

[Janine]

Oh, look at Wiki's entry on Taormina. it gives a nice description with some photos of the area, which is what I think Lawrence is basing his story on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taormina.

Oh, good Wiki is back again! I have to go now and check that link. I saw your photos of the place you posted. Those are very pretty. No wonder L liked going there and living there - it looks wonderful.Nice and sunny; yes, that must be the sea he speaks of, and how blue and gorgeous it is.

You're such a sweet person Janine.

So they tell me ..But just don't ask my mother.

Thank you for doing all that work.

You are graciously welcome, Mr.Virgil!

Yes, that is interesting. I'm sure Lawrence was aware of it.

So am I, he told me so himself. *halucinating again*

Yes, I think the sun as diety is male to Juliet's female. And we see how Maurice falls so short of his male glory. And we see in the story that the snake slithers and hides and is somewhat impotent. Don't you think?

Ah, I had not thought of the snake being impotent; only a man would think of that one. Well, maybe not impotent, but you know snakes are actually quite shy. Think on that awhile.

I was thinking of posting it, but I'll let you. Good thing they wore jammies. Some men go to bed in their underwear, or less.

I know all about that , Virgil.....

[Awod]

Hey Janine, guess who?

[Janine]

The power of the sun influences Juliet in many, many ways as you have excellently described.

amalia, I don't know how you snuck in there, without me noticing you, but sorry about that. I just now saw your post. Maybe we were posting same time. Oh, now I see, you were right before Virgil posted about Wikipedia.
Yes, I think you are correct - the power of the sun does influence her is various ways. She certainly seems like an entirely different woman - one who now is fully-awakened and aware of her own self and her own natural beauty.

I would also suggest that although her feelings were "anger", "frustration", "numb", now we see a different woman under the inlfuence of the sun. The "sunrising" described can be seen as a metaphor fro Juliet's rebirth, and her attempts to persuade her son to "play", and "run in the sun", is, again, a proof of how much this male deity has changed her life. She wants her boy to experience the freedom she has experienced.

oops - sorry you were just saying the same thing. It is so true - how transformed and different Juliet appears, not only in attitude, but in appearance and expression. Yes, she seems to have shed those feelings you have listed and forgotten she ever was harboring such thoughts or attitudes. It is interesting to see the effect it is having on her child as well, and how she now feels the power of the male deity of the sun extended to the boy. He, too, becomes revived and a totally different 'newborn' child, without his whininess, his grasping for Juliet, with all his neediness and clinging. One passage said that he was now able to play quiely by himself. The child, also, is quite transformed and now becomes beautiful.

Now, if the husband would be tranformed as well, by the restorative properties of the sun and light, it might be a happy family scene.

Hey Janine, guess who?

Hey, Is this Mr. Pharmacist?

I have to admit you did give me a jolt with that question!


PS: and by any chance are you a 'Steven Brust' fan?

[Awod]

Hey, Is this Mr. Pharmacist?

I have to admit you did give me a jolt with that question!


PS: and by any chance are you a 'Steven Brust' fan?

Heh would be nice.

I'm not a pharmacist, I'm a Certified Pharmacy technician. I would enjoy the pay increase though :P

Yep, I love Brust theres only a few of his novels I haven't read.

[Janine]

Heh would be nice.

I'm not a pharmacist, I'm a Certified Pharmacy technician. I would enjoy the pay increase though :P

Yep, I love Brust only a few of his novels I haven't read.

Awod, Like I said you did give me a shock. How funny - had to think fast on that one and since you only had 3 now 4 postings it struck me.

Well, you have to work your way up to that very important position. Yes, more money would be nice. I won't give away any more of your vital information. I see your profile page is really revealing. Take a look at mine. I tell all! - a real blabber-mouth!

Hey, honestly so glad you found the site and signed up. Cool place, huh? There is lots to offer here. You must go onto the thread 'what you are reading' - something like that it is called, or start a thread about your author. Now I can remember his name. Sure others will find you who like his work...well, eventually.

Maybe you will try reading one of our Lawrence short stories and join in our discussions. This last one we did was rather interesting, to say the least, plus we need more guys in this thread. haha

We really do have fun in here, even though we can be quite serious minded at times, actually talking about literature. You would never know that by this last page in this thread. Movie thread is fun, too! I am in there often.

Well, go explore the site and have fun!

Hey, just edited this post - looked up Brust website - it is hysterical! I laughed and laughed...really funny stuff. You need one of his book images for your avatar picture.

[Virgil]

I think this passage suggests what Amalia states in her last post:

Now a change took place. She was no longer vitally interested in the child,
she took the strain of her anxiety and her will from off him. And he thrived
all the more for it.

She was thinking inside herself, of the sun in his splendour, and her mating
with him. Her life was now a whole ritual. She lay always awake, before dawn,
watching for the grey to colour to pale gold, to know if cloud lay on the
sea's edge. Her joy was when he rose all molten in his nakedness, and threw
off blue-white fire, into the tender heaven.

But sometimes he came ruddy, like a big, shy creature. And sometimes slow and
crimson red, with a look of anger, slowly pushing and shouldering. Sometimes
again she could not see him, only the level cloud threw down gold and scarlet
from above, as he moved behind the wall.

She was fortunate.Weeks went by, and though the dawn was sometimes clouded,
and afternoon was sometimes grey, never a day passed sunless, and most days,
winter though it was, streamed radiant. Then thin little wild crocuses came up
mauve and striped, the wild narcissi hung in their winter stars.

Every day she went down to the cypress tree, among the cactus grove on the
knoll with yellowish cliffs at the foot. She was wiser and subtler now,
wearing only a dove-grey wrapper and sandals. so that in an instant, in any
hidden niche, she was naked to the sun. And the moment she was covered again
she was grey and invisible.

She knew the sun in heaven, blue-molten with his white fire edges, throwing
off fire. And though he shone on all the world, when she lay unclothed he
focussed on her. It was one of the wonders of the sun, he could shine on a
million people and still be the radiant, splendid, unique sun, focussed on her
alone.

With her knowledge of the sun, and her conviction that the sun knew
her, in the cosmic carnal sense of the word, came over her a feeling of
detachment from people, and a certain contempt for human beings altogether.
They were so un-elemental, so unsunned. they were so like graveyard worms.

[amalia1985]

The paragraphs that Virgil posted are extremely rich in symbolisms, I think.

The cypress can be another sexual metaphor, suggested by Lawrence. The emphasis on the CHANGE shows the emotional transformation of Juliet. Also, “matting with the sun” is a very telling expression, don’t you think?

I believe that the phrase “never a day passed sunless” describes Juliet’s present life, indicating happiness, I would say. I have noticed the repetition of the starry image, and I’d consider important the fact that Lawrence chooses the adjectives “wiser’, and “subtler”, to characterize Juliet, unfolding this “change” in her personality, under the influence of the sun. Notice that she feels happier when she is naked, while her feelings change into “grey” when she is “covered again”. I was captivated by Lawrence’s description of Juliet’s current attitude towards the others. She feels “detached”, and regards them as small creature, I would say.

I think that the metaphor of the “graveyard worms” is very vivid. I linked this one with her previous protest to her mother, in the 1st part of the story, where Juliet tells her “leave off wanting to de me good”. I believe this is another hint of Juliet’s desire to take her life into her hands, to escape the patronization of her environment.

[Janine]

f

The paragraphs that Virgil posted are extremely rich in symbolisms, I think.

amalia, I agree with you - these are really great to quote and 'rich in symbolism' as you pointed out. Thanks, V, for posting this section.

The cypress can be another sexual metaphor, suggested by Lawrence. The emphasis on the CHANGE shows the emotional transformation of Juliet. Also, “matting with the sun” is a very telling expression, don’t you think?

That is an interesting thought about the trees, but I am not quite sure of it, still something to consider. I think I will have to re-read the part where the trees are so vividly described. That did stand out to me at first but then I went quickly onto the next part and forgot about the trees and what significance they play. Yes, the 'mating with the sun' is a key part of the story, I think, maybe the main theme(?) The sun does not just shine on Juliet on the surface of her skin or being, but penetrates her to the core and and infiltrates her whole being, transforming her - a transfiguration.

I believe that the phrase “never a day passed sunless” describes Juliet’s present life, indicating happiness, I would say.

Good observation and something to think about further.

I have noticed the repetition of the starry image, and I’d consider important the fact that Lawrence chooses the adjectives “wiser’, and “subtler”, to characterize Juliet, unfolding this “change” in her personality, under the influence of the sun.

Those words are interesting to consider. Why does he use these particular words, do you think?

Notice that she feels happier when she is naked, while her feelings change into “grey” when she is “covered again”. I was captivated by Lawrence’s description of Juliet’s current attitude towards the others. She feels “detached”, and regards them as small creature, I would say.

I think that 'naked' she feels freedom and clothed she feels 'restrained' and sliding back to her old world which is 'sunless' and unhappy. That is interesting that you picked out the word 'grey' when she is covered. Was her garment, her wrap - 'grey'? I will have to review. If so shadowlike I would imagine. She now would become like a 'shadow' of the sunlight she had basked in or she is going back into the 'shadows of the past'.
Yes, the people are distant from her now; they do not live in the glory and warmth of the sun. They do seem like small creatures or animals in her new sight. Good thought.

I think that the metaphor of the “graveyard worms” is very vivid. I linked this one with her previous protest to her mother, in the 1st part of the story, where Juliet tells her “leave off wanting to de me good”. I believe this is another hint of Juliet’s desire to take her life into her hands, to escape the patronization of her environment.

That is, isn't it? Really a strong image and says so much. 'Graveyard worms' can conjure up all kinds of images of mortality, also. The phrase is used so often in "Hamlet". He often mentions worms in this way because the play looks at mortality and death continually.
Yes, I had forgotten her mother's comment to her. That is good to reflect on, now that we read the entire story. It takes on newer meaning since J's transformation has taken place. She not only pulls away from her environment but her mother and her husband's authority, or 'patronization', as you stated so appropriately. Most of the people Juliet has been associated with prior to coming to Italy have in a sense been dead or half-dead beings. Now Juliet has discoverd 'life' anew from the sun. She has been reborn.

Good post amalia!

[Dark Muse]

I think that the metaphor of the “graveyard worms” is very vivid. I linked this one with her previous protest to her mother, in the 1st part of the story, where Juliet tells her “leave off wanting to de me good”. I believe this is another hint of Juliet’s desire to take her life into her hands, to escape the patronization of her environment.

This was a good observation, and yes I can see the truth in it. As I did find it intresting, when her mother was trying to get her to go naked into the sun on the orders of the doctor she refused at first, but it was not untill she was doing it of her own conviction and not becasue someone else mandated it to her, that she embraced the idea, and found freedom within it.

The other thing I found intresting was the line.

And she thought to herself: For him it is All Ashore! For me it is Out To Sea!

This made me think of the old days, in which women whom were considered disobedent, or rebellious or otherwise troublsume would be "sent out" or "put out" uusally to be shut away within a convent.

And the idea that men were the ones that were suppose to be adventurous and go out into the world to explore new lands.

[Virgil]

The paragraphs that Virgil posted are extremely rich in symbolisms, I think.

The cypress can be another sexual metaphor, suggested by Lawrence. The emphasis on the CHANGE shows the emotional transformation of Juliet. Also, “matting with the sun” is a very telling expression, don’t you think?

I believe that the phrase “never a day passed sunless” describes Juliet’s present life, indicating happiness, I would say. I have noticed the repetition of the starry image, and I’d consider important the fact that Lawrence chooses the adjectives “wiser’, and “subtler”, to characterize Juliet, unfolding this “change” in her personality, under the influence of the sun. Notice that she feels happier when she is naked, while her feelings change into “grey” when she is “covered again”. I was captivated by Lawrence’s description of Juliet’s current attitude towards the others. She feels “detached”, and regards them as small creature, I would say.

I think that the metaphor of the “graveyard worms” is very vivid. I linked this one with her previous protest to her mother, in the 1st part of the story, where Juliet tells her “leave off wanting to de me good”. I believe this is another hint of Juliet’s desire to take her life into her hands, to escape the patronization of her environment.

I agree with everything you say Amamlia except I'm not so sure the cypress trees are intended as phallic. Seems like Lawrence is only describing the setting, but I guess one can extend description a bit. I see the cypress trees if anything more as a worshiper of the sun, another of the flower/vegetaton imagery that Lawrence loves.

I think we can see from the story how Lawrence regards flowers/vegetation/trees as the ideal form of life. They blossom and grow from the sunshine. I always get the feeling that for Lawrence heaven will be a state where we are mindless blossoms.

[Janine]

I agree with everything you say Amamlia except I'm not so sure the cypress trees are intended as phallic. Seems like Lawrence is only describing the setting, but I guess one can extend description a bit. I see the cypress trees if anything more as a worshiper of the sun, another of the flower/vegetaton imagery that Lawrence loves.

I think we can see from the story how Lawrence regards flowers/vegetation/trees as the ideal form of life. They blossom and grow from the sunshine. I always get the feeling that for Lawrence heaven will be a state where we are mindless blossoms.

Virgil, only can answer the last part, since I forgot to read about the cypress trees again, but I think it is simply as you stated, unless I see something else in my additional reading.

That last statement of yours is a truly beautiful thought. I hope it is so, also. Ever see a film called 'What Dreams May Come'? What you just said somehow reminded me of that film, sort of 'perfect heavely realm' on earth. I also, just saw a film called 'The Fountain' - interesting film, with ideas that I kept thinking, Lawrence would have liked and supported. In fact, I wondered if the two young screen writers had ever read Lawrence's later books, such as "The Plumed Serpent". This film even had Central American myths/culture/Mayan civilization/ customs, ritual and a 'tree of life', a 'sword of fire', connection to the cosmos and the stars and a nebula, that would burn itself out to become transformed or transfigured, into forming other new stars, rebirth....and a question of mortaliy/immortality - the idea of connecting all things on earth/cosmos. Flowers and plants played prominently into the web of this idea and this film. Interesting.

[Janine]

HELLO! Where is everybody this weekend??? haha - I am just kidding because I, too, am trying to take a bit of a break! Probably will be back Monday to comment. Enjoy your weekend everyone! J

[Virgil]

HELLO! Where is everybody this weekend??? haha - I am just kidding because I, too, and trying to take a bit of a break! Probably will be back Monday to comment. Enjoy your weekend everyone! J

Enjoy your break Janine. I'll try to push the conversation along later tonight.