Will Believers ever Unite?

[Demian]

This is one of my favorite verses because it seems to affirm humanism before theories of the Otherworld. I call this a paradox verse, like the one where Jesus tells the Jews to search their scriptures to find evidence about him and also seems to devalue the scriptures themselves by saying, "in which you believe you have eternal life." Jesus had a number of paradoxical sayings like this, and I believe it was to shake up our preconceived notions about heaven, our life on earth, eternal life, etc.

[Virgil]

What an interesting thread. I had never come in here until now. I did not read the entire thread, so I apologize if I'm treading on repeated ground.

I don't think a universal religion will ever occur. Even in the fourth and fifth centuries Roman world, where you had essentially one official Roman Catholic church, there were divisions (sometimes labled heresies) that split whole populations into various camps. The question for me is a little different one. Everyone in this thread seems to be under the persuasion that one religion or fewer religions leads to more harmony. I am skeptical of that. The question is whether one or less religions is a good thing. Human beings seem to do two contradictory things: one unite into a group and two divide to create an other. This will always be. Is it better that the divisions are multiple and therefore weaker or unified and therefore stronger? From studying a bit of Voltaire, I became persuaded from him that multiple religions are better thing than a unified. First a truely unified is not possible, so we really are talking about larger multples versues smaller with even more multiple religions. Mankind will always create an "other" to contrast himself against, and sadly hate. Remember Voltaire lived in the 18th century where still the Protestant/Catholic wars persisted but where in England they had pretty much worked themselves out. England, more specifically London, had attracted diverse religious groups, and Voltaire in studying their interactions came to this conclusion, and famous quote:

If you have two religions in your land, the two will cut each other's throats; but if you have thirty religions, they will dwell in peace. --Voltaire

In the US today I can't even begin to number the Christian sects. It's huge. I think we get along pretty well. To the atheists, who believe in some utopian dream that everyone will drop their religions and it will all be a better world, be careful what you wish for. Homogenized, monolithic cultures are greater danger than heterogenic cultures.

I leave you with one more Voltaire quote:

All sects are different, because they come from men; morality is everywhere the same, because it comes from God.
Voltaire

[Demian]

Thanks for your contribution, Virgil. Your insights reminded me of another great quote. I don't know the source offhand, but here it is, "Heresies are really sudden explosions of faith. Dead religions no longer produce them." Of course, these heretical ideas form the sects that later become dominating and dogmatic institutions. It seems that mankind has a need to concentrate cultural power to defend ideas (however humble they may be).

[blazeofglory]

For those that are Christian--we are all members of the same body. For those that are Judeo-Christian-Muslim there is but one God. These are the dominating faiths of our day. If they believe in one God, shall they ever unite with one voice? ---"And on that day His name shall be One..." Zechariah

Spiritualists really feel in union with one another. Where do we stand if we are spiritual? In fact we stand together, in unison, that we all, animates and even inanimate beings are one great and integral whole and the seeming division is an llusion.

Then coming to the same one God. Then what is God? Is it as we have read in books of mythology? If we really are believers, not fanatics or fundamentalists, divisionists, there is no notion of many Gods.

True believers do not subscribe to the idea that there exists many gods. No. Despite the fact that I was branded as a Hindu by my society, my society means primarily my parents and the rest follow then after, I do not believe in Hinduism, and I feel comfortable with all. When I go to church, as I have gone to some and like to go often I do think God is different there at all. No it is the same.

How can you say the sky is different by virtue of the fact that you reside in the west and I in the east. Is not it one and the same.

God is, if it really exists, one.

[Mr. Dr. Ralph]

For those that are Christian--we are all members of the same body. For those that are Judeo-Christian-Muslim there is but one God. These are the dominating faiths of our day. If they believe in one God, shall they ever unite with one voice? ---"And on that day His name shall be One..." Zechariah

I doubt it. Give humanity another 100 years and most people will probably not be religious at all.

[Demian]

This may depend upon your definition of religion-but I believe that every person tries to discover some meaning in their lives. Therefore, every person is religious.

[NikolaiI]

Yeah Religious can be Discipline. And also there can sometimes be a difference between how we are told the world is, and how it actually is. So everyone has some religion.

Someone said "It is the fate of every mythology to begin as heresy and end as a superstition."

[Pendragon]

I doubt it. Give humanity another 100 years and most people will probably not be religious at all.

I would qualify that to say that "Give humanity a 100 years and people will still be trying to figure out exactly what God is and if it is at all possible that such a being could exist after all." Humanity is born courious, they seek to find answers. Many have reached the point where God's existence is doubtful at best. I see this continuing during the next 100 years. But there are new discoverys being made all the time. And there is still much that man cannot really explain. Many scientists unashamedly admit to "best guess" on some things, based on what they do know. I find no fault in them. That is "logic" to me.

But in the search for answers, God is going to come up, and people will continue to hold to their faith. But to unite them would take goverment and church intermarrige, which I know to be unconstitutional.

God Bless

Pen

[Virgil]

I doubt it. Give humanity another 100 years and most people will probably not be religious at all.

And what do you base that on. If you're interested you can read about the decline, yes I said decline, of atheism world wide:
http://creationwiki.org/Decline_of_atheism

And if you wish there is a very good book on the subject: http://www.amazon.com/Twilight-Athei.../dp/0385500629
You can read the short summary here:

From Publishers Weekly
Oxford University's McGrath has distinguished himself not just as an historical theologian, but as a generous and witty writer who brings life to topics that would turn to dust in others' hands. Here he explores the history of atheism in Western culture, observing that atheism seems to be succumbing to the very fate—irrelevance and dissolution—that atheists once predicted would overtake traditional religion. How did atheism ("a principled and informed decision to reject belief in God") become so rare by the turn of the 21st century? McGrath leaves no stone unturned, nor any important source unconsulted, in tracing atheism's rise and fall. Beyond the usual suspects of Marx, Freud and Darwin, McGrath surveys literature (George Eliot, Algernon Swinburne), science (Jacques Monod, Richard Dawkins) and philosophy (Ludwig Feuerbach, Michel Foucault), managing to make such intellectual heavy lifting look effortless. As a lapsed atheist himself, McGrath is a sympathetic interpreter, but he also relentlessly documents what he contends are the philosophical inconsistency and moral failures of atheism, especially when it has acquired political power. Yet believers will find no warrant here for complacency, as McGrath shows how religion's "failures of imagination" and complicity with oppression often fostered the very environment in which atheism could thrive. Indeed, he warns, "Believers need to realize that, strange as it may seem, it is they who will have the greatest impact on atheism's future." Readable and memorable, this is intellectual history at its best.
Copyright © Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved. --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.

[Lote-Tree]

If you're interested you can read about the decline, yes I said decline, of atheism world wide:
http://creationwiki.org/Decline_of_atheism

Come now Virgilus! you can't use Creationwiki.org to support your point

It's like getting Monsanto to say GM crops is all good

[Thinkerr]

.....

[Thinkerr]

Atheists have a very slight problem. They are out numbered. Most people in the world believe at least there is a God(s). The evidence is against those who think that there are no unexplained incidents on Earth. I have a good friend that fell off a cliff into a river from over 500ft up, bouncing off the cliff several times on the way down. He made his way out of the water with no more than a skinned knee and a severe case of shock. If that doesn't prove somebody up there is watching down here, I don't know what does!

[weepingforloman]

Thanks for your contribution, Virgil. Your insights reminded me of another great quote. I don't know the source offhand, but here it is, "Heresies are really sudden explosions of faith. Dead religions no longer produce them." Of course, these heretical ideas form the sects that later become dominating and dogmatic institutions. It seems that mankind has a need to concentrate cultural power to defend ideas (however humble they may be).

I refer your theory of heresies to the Pelagians, the Manichees, and any of the various western "Christian" cults. None of these survived. Nor did the attempt by one Egyptian Pharaoh (I cannot remember the name- Amanhotep?) to dispense with the various members of the Egyptian pantheon and worship only the sun (and of course the pharaoh, as the sun's representative on earth). Say rather, a religion that does not think in new ways about its own dogma will die.

[blazeofglory]

For those that are Christian--we are all members of the same body. For those that are Judeo-Christian-Muslim there is but one God. These are the dominating faiths of our day. If they believe in one God, shall they ever unite with one voice? ---"And on that day His name shall be One..." Zechariah

They will never unite but will feud with one another. History documents this fact.

[dzebra]

They will never unite but will feud with one another. History documents this fact.

I don't see how history can document the future. That is, of course, unless you are a prophet.