Summer '07 Reading: 'To The Lighthouse' by Virginia Woolf

[Walter]

Janine, It is labor intensive, but the only way I know to mark thought and dialogue in a confusing book, for convenient later reference in a serous discussion -- in effect to build an index to the book. Saves a lot of frustration and endless page flipping for me and my vague memory, after I stagger through the unmarked book once totally confused. If there is a simpler way I'd be glad to hear it.

[manolia]

Sorry, I didn't mean to cavil about some small detail. It's just, after three pages of back and forth arguing over a point, you get a little suspicious of anyone who has a quick, concise answer. I don't know how important the Ramsays' relationship is. That greatly depends on what you think the main themes are. I just wanted to make sure we get an accurate idea of the events in the story--relevant or not. And, I just wanted you to say more. It sounded like you were coming up with a good idea, but it wasn't really clear. You still had some "perhaps" and "partly"s. Once the verbal hedges drop away we can really talk about it. Sorry if I sounded combative, I was just trying to be challenging.

Oh no need for "sorry"! I wasn't offended
For me the central theme (or main subject, if you prefer) of the book is the (relentless) passing of time. What we get in this book is two days in the lives of a set of people. A little detail : the two days have a distance of ten years between them (which include a war - in which Andrew was killed and two more deaths -Prou (SP?) and Mrs Ramsey). I liked the middle part of the book where the process of time is described through the "decaying" of the house. Very strong images!
What i also noticed (a very important issue too) is the anthropomorphisms in the novel. Allow me to use this term, since i got the feeling that both the house and the lighthouse almost had a life of their own . Tell me what you think and we can expand on these a little more

[Quark]

For me the central theme (or main subject, if you prefer) of the book is the (relentless) passing of time. What we get in this book is two days in the lives of a set of people. A little detail : the two days have a distance of ten years between them (which include a war - in which Andrew was killed and two more deaths -Prou (SP?) and Mrs Ramsey). I liked the middle part of the book where the process of time is described through the "decaying" of the house. Very strong images!
What i also noticed (a very important issue too) is the anthropomorphisms in the novel. Allow me to use this term, since i got the feeling that both the house and the lighthouse almost had a life of their own . Tell me what you think and we can expand on these a little more

Yes, the passing of time is very important to the novel. From the Ramsay's perspective, its passage would have to be described as relentless--if not cruel. They lose almost everything they hoped for; though, I think, in the end, they get some consolation. Like The Sound and The Fury, you could read the story as another pessimistic Modernist tale about the dissolution of a family, but I think it might be more. While the Ramsay's fail, other characters achieve some success: Lily begins to paint, and Mr. Carmichael becomes a popular poet. To The Lighthouse ends with more hope than most stories about the mortality of the world. I think a fuller idea for the novel might be change, rather than only destruction and loss.

I'm also curious about the anthropomorphizing of the lighthouse. What human traits do you think the lighthouse has? The lighthouse is a difficult symbol to understand, and we haven't talked about it much yet, so it might be a good time to start.

[manolia]

I'm also curious about the anthropomorphizing of the lighthouse. What human traits do you think the lighthouse has? The lighthouse is a difficult symbol to understand, and we haven't talked about it much yet, so it might be a good time to start.

Hehehe don't laugh*, but the lighthouse gave me the creeps..like it is always there watching over people..its beam is like an ever watching eye..which has the ability to see everything (do you remember some of the descriptions of its beam being cast over their beds, creeping through windows etc etc?). Moreover the lighthouse is a place where little James wants to reach but he can't..he has a strange, almost supernatural appeal to him..and in the end when he actually goes there he drows this very interesting parallel between himself and the lighthouse..they are both very proud and erect or something of the sort..they somehow look alike.

*I guess i have read so many sci-fi and fantasy books in my life and watched too many thrillers..but there was something in the lighhouse's beam that reminded me of the eye of Sauron from LOTR

[Virgil]

Ok, I've been reading and there are interesting things to point out in the openning pages.

“Yes, of course, if it’s fine tomorrow,” said Mrs Ramsay. “But you’ll have to be up with the lark,” she added.

To her son these words conveyed an extraordinary joy, as if it were settled, the expedition were bound to take place, and the wonder to which he had looked forward, for years and years it seemed, was, after a night’s darkness and a day’s sail, within touch. Since he belonged, even at the age of six, to that great clan which cannot keep this feeling separate from that, but must let future prospects, with their joys and sorrows, cloud what is actually at hand, since to such people even in earliest childhood any turn in the wheel of sensation has the power to crystallise and transfix the moment upon which its gloom or radiance rests, James Ramsay, sitting on the floor cutting out pictures from the illustrated catalogue of the Army and Navy stores, endowed the picture of a refrigerator, as his mother spoke, with heavenly bliss. It was fringed with joy.

What we see is Mrs. Ramsey as soothing, nurturing, instilling hope and vision and imagination. She s helping the boy cut out pictures, and so much of this novel is about pictures and imagination. Notice also how perspective is introduced: "and the wonder to which he had looked forward, for years and years it seemed" Years and years? He is only six. And yet it will be years and years until this wish is fulfilled. And the novel also introduces how childhood develops: "since to such people even in earliest childhood any turn in the wheel of sensation has the power to crystallise and transfix the moment upon which its gloom or radiance rests". The artistry of the imagination is what will shape James, and in affect all of us (this is Woolf's ideas, not necessarily mine).

And further along, we get a contrasting scene:

“But,” said his father, stopping in front of the drawing-room window, “it won’t be fine.”

Had there been an axe handy, a poker, or any weapon that would have gashed a hole in his father’s breast and killed him, there and then, James would have seized it. Such were the extremes of emotion that Mr Ramsay excited in his children’s breasts by his mere presence; standing, as now, lean as a knife, narrow as the blade of one, grinning sarcastically, not only with the pleasure of disillusioning his son and casting ridicule upon his wife, who was ten thousand times better in every way than he was (James thought), but also with some secret conceit at his own accuracy of judgement. What he said was true. It was always true. He was incapable of untruth; never tampered with a fact; never altered a disagreeable word to suit the pleasure or convenience of any mortal being, least of all of his own children, who, sprung from his loins, should be aware from childhood that life is difficult; facts uncompromising; and the passage to that fabled land where our brightest hopes are extinguished, our frail barks founder in darkness (here Mr Ramsay would straighten his back and narrow his little blue eyes upon the horizon), one that needs, above all, courage, truth, and the power to endure

The contrasting "But" sets up a polar opposite idea. The father is harsh, blunt, anti-imagination, realistic, fact driven. And it is realistic; it turns out to be true. They will not be able to go the the lighouse because of the weather. Woolf has set up two archetypical characterization: the mother as nurturing, the father as forceful; the mother as imaginative, the father as realistic; the mother as soothing, the father as harsh, fact driven.

[Virgil]

Notice then the contrast between how Mrs. Ramsey's mind works with that of Tansley"s:

“But it may be fine—I expect it will be fine,” said Mrs Ramsay, making some little twist of the reddish brown stocking she was knitting, impatiently. If she finished it tonight, if they did go to the Lighthouse after all, it was to be given to the Lighthouse keeper for his little boy, who was threatened with a tuberculous hip; together with a pile of old magazines, and some tobacco, indeed, whatever she could find lying about, not really wanted, but only littering the room, to give those poor fellows, who must be bored to death sitting all day with nothing to do but polish the lamp and trim the wick and rake about on their scrap of garden, something to amuse them. For how would you like to be shut up for a whole month at a time, and possibly more in stormy weather, upon a rock the size of a tennis lawn? she would ask; and to have no letters or newspapers, and to see nobody; if you were married, not to see your wife, not to know how your children were,—if they were ill, if they had fallen down and broken their legs or arms; to see the same dreary waves breaking week after week, and then a dreadful storm coming, and the windows covered with spray, and birds dashed against the lamp, and the whole place rocking, and not be able to put your nose out of doors for fear of being swept into the sea? How would you like that? she asked, addressing herself particularly to her daughters. So she added, rather differently, one must take them whatever comforts one can.

Notice that she envisions the painful existence of the lighthouse family, the isolation, their being cut off from society, havoc of the natural world to human existence, the onslaught of time (symbolized in "the same dreary waves breaking week after week"). These are all themes which will be developed throughout the novel.

But notice how Tansley sees the trip to the lighthouse:

“It’s due west,” said the atheist Tansley, holding his bony fingers spread so that the wind blew through them, for he was sharing Mr Ramsay’s evening walk up and down, up and down the terrace. That is to say, the wind blew from the worst possible direction for landing at the Lighthouse.

Tansley in some ways is another version of Mr. Ramsey. Pure logical facts, harsh facts. Even his atheism suggests a lack of intuition and imagination.

And Woolf even has Mrs. Ramsey get to the heart of Tansley's person. Notice this several pages in as Mrs R gets Tansley to go into town with her:

“Let us all go!” she cried, moving on, as if all those riders and horses had filled her with childlike exultation and made her forget her pity.

“Let’s go,” he said, repeating her words, clicking them out, however, with a self-consciousness that made her wince. “Let us all go to the circus.” No. He could not say it right. He could not feel it right. But why not? she wondered. What was wrong with him then? She liked him warmly, at the moment. Had they not been taken, she asked, to circuses when they were children? Never, he answered, as if she asked the very thing he wanted; had been longing all these days to say, how they did not go to circuses. It was a large family, nine brothers and sisters, and his father was a working man. “My father is a chemist, Mrs Ramsay. He keeps a shop.” He himself had paid his own way since he was thirteen. Often he went without a greatcoat in winter. He could never “return hospitality” (those were his parched stiff words) at college. He had to make things last twice the time other people did; he smoked the cheapest tobacco; shag; the same the old men did in the quays. He worked hard—seven hours a day; his subject was now the influence of something upon somebody—they were walking on and Mrs Ramsay did not quite catch the meaning, only the words, here and there ... dissertation ... fellowship ... readership ... lectureship. She could not follow the ugly academic jargon, that rattled itself off so glibly, but said to herself that she saw now why going to the circus had knocked him off his perch, poor little man, and why he came out, instantly, with all that about his father and mother and brothers and sisters, and she would see to it that they didn’t laugh at him any more; she would tell Prue about it.

Never having gone to the circus, the deprivation of childhood imaginings. This in a way parallels little James not going to the lighthouse. Will James be a Tansley? Or will Mr. Tansley be like James? Notice the effect she has on him. She shows him some paintings as the wonder through town:

So Mr Tansley supposed she meant him to see that that man’s picture was skimpy, was that what one said? The colours weren’t solid? Was that what one said? Under the influence of that extraordinary emotion which had been growing all the walk, had begun in the garden when he had wanted to take her bag, had increased in the town when he had wanted to tell her everything about himself, he was coming to see himself, and everything he had ever known gone crooked a little. It was awfully strange.

Through her personality Tansley is "coming to see himself, and everything he had ever known gone crooked a little." And then he lightens up, almost awakes and suddenly realizes what has been in front of him for the longest time:

There he stood in the parlour of the poky little house where she had taken him, waiting for her, while she went upstairs a moment to see a woman. He heard her quick step above; heard her voice cheerful, then low; looked at the mats, tea-caddies, glass shades; waited quite impatiently; looked forward eagerly to the walk home; determined to carry her bag; then heard her come out; shut a door; say they must keep the windows open and the doors shut, ask at the house for anything they wanted (she must be talking to a child) when, suddenly, in she came, stood for a moment silent (as if she had been pretending up there, and for a moment let herself be now), stood quite motionless for a moment against a picture of Queen Victoria wearing the blue ribbon of the Garter; when all at once he realised that it was this: it was this:—she was the most beautiful person he had ever seen.

With stars in her eyes and veils in her hair, with cyclamen and wild violets—what nonsense was he thinking? She was fifty at least; she had eight children. Stepping through fields of flowers and taking to her breast buds that had broken and lambs that had fallen; with the stars in her eyes and the wind in her hair—He had hold of her bag.

She brings out a childish spark out of him.

[middleyears]

The lighthouse is a difficult symbol to understand, and we haven't talked about it much yet, so it might be a good time to start.[/QUOTE]


Hi, it's been a while since I jumped in on the conversation but from what I learned in class about the book, and of course this is the professor's opinion, is that the Lighthouse is actually Mrs Ramsey. She is always there to look over things and keep all in line and make sure dinner parties go well and she's there to match people up to have a wonderful life. SHE is the lighthouse.
At the end when Lily finishes the painting she draws Mrs Ramsey as a wedge shaped core. She becomes one with her for only a moment. At that same moment that she finished the painting, Carmichel says that Mr Ramsey, Cam and James have reached the lighthouse. They have all had a moment of shared conscieneness. (not sure if that's spelled right L

[Virgil]

The lighthouse is a difficult symbol to understand, and we haven't talked about it much yet, so it might be a good time to start.

Hi, it's been a while since I jumped in on the conversation but from what I learned in class about the book, and of course this is the professor's opinion, is that the Lighthouse is actually Mrs Ramsey. She is always there to look over things and keep all in line and make sure dinner parties go well and she's there to match people up to have a wonderful life. SHE is the lighthouse.
At the end when Lily finishes the painting she draws Mrs Ramsey as a wedge shaped core. She becomes one with her for only a moment. At that same moment that she finished the painting, Carmichel says that Mr Ramsey, Cam and James have reached the lighthouse. They have all had a moment of shared conscieneness. (not sure if that's spelled right L

[/QUOTE]
I fully agree with your professor. I think I had expressed something like that earlier. All the other characters are in orbits around Mrs Ramsey, and she is their guide and protector.

[plainjane]

I happened to run across this quote on another forum. I don't have the books of VW's letters, but the page and book is in the quote.
It is her view of the meaning of the Lighthouse itself.
I found it interesting.

I meant nothing by The Lighthouse. One has to have a central line down the middle of the book to hold the design together. I saw that all sorts of feelings would accrue to this, but I refused to think them out, and trusted that people would make it the deposit for their own emotions—which they have done, one thinking it means one thing anther another. I can"'"t manage Symbolism except in this vague, generalized way. Whether its right or wrong I don"'"t know, but directly I"'"m told what a thing means, it becomes hateful to me. (Letters, vol. 1, May 27, 1927, #1764).

[Walter]

PlainJane, Very interesting, then, if I recall correctly, that Lily finally finishes her painting by drawing a single straight line on it. And that's it!
The straight line that we now see as Mrs. Ramsay herself?

[plainjane]

Yes, the unifying factor. That is how I saw it.

I did like the way the Lighthouse was used in the middle section, sweeping across the house and contents showing the degeneration over time. Reaching into corners exposing all the cobwebs of the house [of the inhabitants minds?] along the way.

[Janine]

I have had modem/computer problems, but hopefully will be back on tonight...at my library currently using their computer. Got new modem today. Wow, I have been missing a great discussion. I can't wait to read all posts since I left. Hopefully see you later on.

[Walter]

Somehow the house has always appeared to me in a dual role. The central section shows beautifully how it slowly ages and can be a symbol for the passage of time. On the other hand, the changes in the house with time are as nothing compared to the havoc that time has wrought with the lives of the characters. And it is from exactly the same house that the story resumes in the third section, so the house has also seemed to me to be a fixed point in their lives -- a symbol of stability in their radically changing world. So I see it both ways and can't choose one or the other way of looking at it.

[Quark]

Notice that she envisions the painful existence of the lighthouse family, the isolation, their being cut off from society, havoc of the natural world to human existence, the onslaught of time (symbolized in "the same dreary waves breaking week after week"). These are all themes which will be developed throughout the novel.

We've talked about time and death in the story, but I don't think anyone has brought up isolation. Who do you think is isolated? How are they isolated? I wrote something about the large psychological distance separating the characters and Lily's difference from the Ramsays, but do you think there is a broader theme of isolation in the book?

[plainjane]

I have not gone back for individual examples, but I did feel, probably due to the writing style, that everyone was isolated in their thoughts. Unable to tell the others what was really going on in their minds. The interchange between the Ramsays, her dreams for the children and Lily.
Mrs. Ramsay had all the relationships of the young people set in her mind, some worked out some didn't, and even the ones that did...her daughter married and soon died, so the future Mrs. Ramsay imagined for her never took place. The lives that were cut off by the War, never coming to fruition were in her imagination only.

Maybe more than isolation, a hopelessness and helplessness against McFate is a theme.