D.H. Lawrence's Short Stories Thread

[downing]

When I think of spring and people-I usually think of young love. I think it fits here. Shades...hmm makes me think that there are more than one shade of spring/love and maybe they are not complete or whole.

Janine,this was what I was refering at when I was talking about more loves. You're right, we don't know whether Syson has an unhappy marriage. Maybe he just came to visit the place of his youth, to see how things are going and to see Hilda again? For me it seems rather unrealistically that he would have visited Hilda anymore and have that feeling after departing if he had had a happy marriage:

He felt as if it were underground, like the fields of monotone hell, notwithstanding. Inside his breast was a pain like a wound. He remembered the poem of William Morris, where in the Chapel of Lyonesse a knight lay wounded, with the truncheon of a spear deep in his breast, lying always as dead, yet did not die, while day after day the coloured sunlight dipped from the painted window across the chancel, and passed away. He knew now it never had been true, that which was between him and her, not for a moment.

Sorry for posting this ahead, I just wanted to bring an argument to my statement.

Nevertheless, I agree with you:

Either way I think that Syson could love two people differently at the same time. Most definitely his love for Hilda would be a young innocent type of love and perhaps his wife is a realistic type love.

Thanks Janine for posting that reviewer's oppinion...quite interesting and true, I believe. Also thank you for posting the next part of the story. Indeed, this part is important because it reveals Syson's feelings in the moment when he meets again Hilda. I will quote some passages and underline the words which accentuate Syson's emotions:

With tangled emotions, Syson noted the plum blossom falling on the profuse, coloured primroses, which he himself had brought here and set. How they had increased!

The door opened suddenly: very womanly she had grown! He felt himself going pale.

"Who?" called the farmer's voice. Men's low voices answered. Those low voices, curious and almost jeering, roused the tormented spirit in the visitor. Smiling brilliantly at her, he waited

"Shall you have a bit?" he invited the young visitor, but taking for granted the offer would be refused. He assumed that Syson was become too refined to eat so roughly. The young man winced at the imputation.

This quote is edifying for Syson's portrait made by the other characters through indirect characterization: Syson-''the trespasser'' doesn't seem to be sympathized by any of the characters and I feel sorry for him.

"I am sorry I come at lunch-time," said Syson.

"Hello, Addy!" said the farmer, assuming the old form of address, but his tone cold. "How are you?"

And he shook hands.

"Shall you have a bit?" he invited the young visitor, but taking for granted the offer would be refused. He assumed that Syson was become too refined to eat so roughly. The young man winced at the imputation.

"Have you had any dinner?" asked the daughter.

"No," replied Syson. "It is too early. I shall be back at half-past one."

"You call it lunch, don't you?" asked the eldest son, almost ironical. He had once been an intimate friend of this young man.

I have an obscure point here. What is this discussion concerning lunch/dinner about? Syson was there at lunch time(about midday), so why did Hilda ask him if he had lunch? Did people from the countryside call ''lunch''-''dinner''? Please help me at this point.

[Quote]Hilda was very womanly. In her presence he felt constrained.[/Quote]

He was uneasy before her. Her brief, sure speech, her distant bearing, were unfamiliar to him. He admired again her grey-black eyebrows, and her lashes. Their eyes met. He saw, in the beautiful grey and black of her glance, tears and a strange light, and at the back of all, calm acceptance of herself, and triumph over him.

Observe the key word ''uneasy'' which we had found also before, at the beginning of the story in the statement ''uneasy spirit''. See that Hilda has got tears in her eyes, so that means that she still has got feelings for him and that she is thrilled when she meets Syson.


After quoting and accentuating some things, I draw the conclusion that in the moment when Syson meets Hilda and her family, is very thrilled and somehow ill-at-ease. I believe that he isn't sympathaized by any of the members of the family because all of them are we ironic and cold-toned. Maybe Hilda will be an exception, because we remark a change of behaviour when she is alone with Syson:

She entered, wiping a dish, and he saw again the bright, kernel-white beauty of her arms.

"You are quite splendid here," he said, and their eyes met.

"Do you like it?" she asked. It was the old, low, husky tone of intimacy. He felt a quick change beginning in his blood. It was the old, delicious sublimation, the thinning, almost the vaporizing of himself, as if his spirit were to be liberated.

"Aye," he nodded, smiling at her like a boy again. She bowed her head.

Well, I hope all these make sense. I'll end my comment here- I have been writing for a long time and I feel al tired out.
I am looking forward to seeing your oppinions!

Virg,glad to see you back!

[Virgil]

"I am sorry I come at lunch-time," said Syson.

"Hello, Addy!" said the farmer, assuming the old form of address, but his tone cold. "How are you?"

And he shook hands.

"Shall you have a bit?" he invited the young visitor, but taking for granted the offer would be refused. He assumed that Syson was become too refined to eat so roughly. The young man winced at the imputation.

"Have you had any dinner?" asked the daughter.

"No," replied Syson. "It is too early. I shall be back at half-past one."

"You call it lunch, don't you?" asked the eldest son, almost ironical. He had once been an intimate friend of this young man.

I have an obscure point here. What is this discussion concerning lunch/dinner about? Syson was there at lunch time(about midday), so why did Hilda ask him if he had lunch? Did people from the countryside call ''lunch''-''dinner''? Please help me at this point.

Oh I think it's a language distinction. I think simpler country people referred to that meal as supper, while the more sophisticated referred to it as lunch. Lunch is what has prevailed in our current usage, since there are so few country people now. I think it's meant to show the change in Syson from the past.

Hilda was very womanly. In her presence he felt constrained.[/

The fact that Hilda is referred to as womanly a couple of times I think indicates how ungrown up Syson is portrayed. Hilda has matured while Syson has remained adolescent, at least in this context.

Observe the key word ''uneasy'' which we had found also before, at the beginning of the story in the statement ''uneasy spirit''. See that Hilda has got tears in her eyes, so that means that she still has got feelings for him and that she is thrilled when she meets Syson.


After quoting and accentuating some things, I draw the conclusion that in the moment when Syson meets Hilda and her family, is very thrilled and somehow ill-at-ease. I believe that he isn't sympathaized by any of the members of the family because all of them are we ironic and cold-toned. Maybe Hilda will be an exception, because we remark a change of behaviour when she is alone with Syson:

Good points Downing. I found that passage where his blood changes very interesting too.

Virg,glad to see you back!

Thank you. I see Janine has got you putting people's names in bold too.

[downing]

The fact that Hilda is referred to as womanly a couple of times I think indicates how ungrown up Syson is portrayed. Hilda has matured while Syson has remained adolescent, at least in this context.

Virg, that's a great idea. I haven't thought of that before.

Thank you. I see Janine has got you putting people's names in bold too.

She didn't tell me exactly, but I think my subsconcious worked in this case. I know you don't believe in subconcious How do you call it?Janine told me but I forgot Just kidding,Virg.

[Pensive]

I was reading you people's points, and I have found them quite interesting! Good job!

I was myself wondering about the title 'Shades of Spring' and now I have noticed something I would like to quote!

Shades also make me think of shadows, which makes me think of the past...which is what we are seeing her with Hilda and Syson...a shadow of a love that was in the past, or a shadow of love, which could mean it was never real. Hilda mentioned this, that he never saw her for who she was...meaning he was in love with a different Hilda...a shade?

This is a good theory, but personally I feel inclined towards another simple one: you see shade can be referred to a screen from light, complete darkness or even something unpleasant. Syson comes here in the spring, found his ex-lover in love with someone else and has to go away, and it is clear he doesn't seem very happy going back. This is something 'unpleasant' for him in what's-thought-to-be-a-beautiful-spring.

[Janine]

I was reading you people's points, and I have found them quite interesting! Good job!

I was myself wondering about the title 'Shades of Spring' and now I have noticed something I would like to quote!



This is a good theory, but personally I feel inclined towards another simple one: you see shade can be referred to a screen from light, complete darkness or even something unpleasant. Syson comes here in the spring, found his ex-lover in love with someone else and has to go away, and it is clear he doesn't seem very happy going back. This is something 'unpleasant' for him in what's-thought-to-be-a-beautiful-spring.

Wow, I too have read everyone's posts, as Pensive did and commented, and found them all very interesting. All of you got busy, while I was gone; I am so glad to see all these great posts.
Downing, you did a fine job quoting the passages and picking out key words. I liked your comments very much. I feel nearly the same on all you have said. In essense, I feel as Virgil and you have stated, that these passages set up even more distinctly the distance between Syson and Hilda's two worlds, such as the dinner-time question. I believe in the country a main meal was partaken of in the mid-day whereas in more genteel society, a tea is served around 4,5 o'clock and then later - perhaps about 8 o'clock a large main meal is presented. Therefore, I would think this is what they are referring to. Afterall, in the country people went to bed earlier most likely; therefore to eat the main meal in the daytime was not so unusual. At least I gather this from all my years of watching English adaptations on film. manolia - where are you? - she would laugh!

I think that Virgil further pointed out the difference in the two former lovers. Syson has stayed younger and immature as compared to Hilda who is mentioned as being womanly throughout the text. Also could it be that in Syson's perception he had not expected her to be so but like she was when he had left. One does tend to preserve a person in that image when they last saw them. I have done this myself. Recently, I thought of someone from years ago and always that person has been preserved in my memory as just as he was. It suddenly dawned on me the man would now be middle-aged! I had to laugh at my own distorted perception and memory. So here we have some years that have passed. The meeting itself after so many years would be traumatic to all including her family. I get the impression Syson left her and she was hurt by it at the time. Now Syson is holding onto the past but Hilda has moved on with her life. This story is very much about change. How some people stay stagnant and others move on emotionally. I think the tears in Hilda's eyes do not neccessarily indicate to me that she still loves Syson, but a part of her probably does or will forever if indeed she once did love him. But that is an immature love they would have had. Syson longs for that but it is only an illusion - a 'shade'. Pensive has explored the word more deeply in her post and pointed out good ideas on the word. I think the tears are also a reaction to his return and stirring up the feelings that Hilda must have had being left behind or hurt by Syson. That deep kind of rejection and hurt never really goes entirely away. Now she has moved on, but part of her remains faithful to her memories and affection for Syson. Obviously she has kept some part of him, by accepting his letters and poems. I think she accepted Syson from a distance with limitations and learned to live within herself; she mentions this later on in the story, saying she has the stars for herself or something like this, don't know the exact quote.

Syson went round the buildings, and into the orchard at the back of the house, where daffodils all along the hedgerow swung like yellow, ruffled birds on their perches. He loved the place extraordinarily, the hills ranging round, with bear-skin woods covering their giant shoulders, and small red farms like brooches clasping their garments; the blue streak of water in the valley, the bareness of the home pasture, the sound of myriad-threaded bird-singing, which went mostly unheard. To his last day, he would dream of this place, when he felt the sun on his face, or saw the small handfuls of snow between the winter twigs, or smelt the coming of spring.

As a stylist in his writing I know Virgil will agree with me on this one, we both think L is extraordinary. I absolutely love this line in the story - "where daffodils all along the hedgerow swung like yellow, ruffled birds on their perches." - the imagery is so lovely, don't you think?
This whole paragraph with Syson thinking how "He loved the place extraodinarily" and "To his last day, he would dream of this place"

"To his last day, he would dream of this place, when he felt the sun on his face, or saw the small handfuls of snow between the winter twigs, or smelt the coming of spring."

Another exquiste line I think and probably so true of Lawrence himself. I have read some passages in his letters indicating this very thing in his real life and the time he spent on Jessie's(Miriam) farm.

In the following passages I will underline key words, phrases:

Hilda was very womanly. In her presence he felt constrained. She was twenty-nine, as he was, but she seemed to him much older. He felt foolish, almost unreal, beside her. She was so static. As he was fingering some shed plum blossom on a low bough, she came to the back door to shake the table-cloth. Fowls raced from the stackyard, birds rustled from the trees. Her dark hair was gathered up in a coil like a crown on her head. She was very straight, distant in her bearing.
As she folded the cloth, she looked away over the hills.

Presently Syson returned indoors. She had prepared eggs and curd cheese, stewed gooseberries and cream.

"Since you will dine to-night," she said, "I have only given you a light lunch."

"It is awfully nice," he said. "You keep a real idyllic atmosphere--your belt of straw and ivy buds."

Still they hurt each other.

Does anyone else find the statement "She was so static" strange? What are your opinions on that statement within this passage of text. Obviously it is from Syson's perspective, don't you think?

Downing posted this already but I wanted to comment. Isn't this passage beautiful and so painfully poignant?

He felt as if it were underground, like the fields of monotone hell, notwithstanding. Inside his breast was a pain like a wound. He remembered the poem of William Morris, where in the Chapel of Lyonesse a knight lay wounded, with the truncheon of a spear deep in his breast, lying always as dead, yet did not die, while day after day the coloured sunlight dipped from the painted window across the chancel, and passed away. He knew now it never had been true, that which was between him and her, not for a moment.

The images are wonderful and perhaps 'shade' could be applied, Pensive, to the "monotone hell" idea in the first line. Also note the contrast of the 'coloured sunlight' in next to last line.


OK, if I think of anything else I will add it later. Thanks for your comments on my bolding up type. Did you see what Scher did about that in "To The Lighthouse" thread (think it was in there).

Again all your posts were great and gave me a lot to think about. Now we are delving deeper into the meanings in the story.

[Virgil]

I was myself wondering about the title 'Shades of Spring' and now I have noticed something I would like to quote!

Shades also make me think of shadows, which makes me think of the past...which is what we are seeing her with Hilda and Syson...a shadow of a love that was in the past, or a shadow of love, which could mean it was never real. Hilda mentioned this, that he never saw her for who she was...meaning he was in love with a different Hilda...a shade?

This is a good theory, but personally I feel inclined towards another simple one: you see shade can be referred to a screen from light, complete darkness or even something unpleasant. Syson comes here in the spring, found his ex-lover in love with someone else and has to go away, and it is clear he doesn't seem very happy going back. This is something 'unpleasant' for him in what's-thought-to-be-a-beautiful-spring.

Pensy, I think both you an Downing are correct. Both theories fit nicely, so why couldn't they both be what he intended.

He felt as if it were underground, like the fields of monotone hell, notwithstanding. Inside his breast was a pain like a wound. He remembered the poem of William Morris, where in the Chapel of Lyonesse a knight lay wounded, with the truncheon of a spear deep in his breast, lying always as dead, yet did not die, while day after day the coloured sunlight dipped from the painted window across the chancel, and passed away. He knew now it never had been true, that which was between him and her, not for a moment.

As a stylist in his writing I know Virgil will agree with me on this one, we both think L is extraordinary. I absolutely love this line in the story - "where daffodils all along the hedgerow swung like yellow, ruffled birds on their perches." - the imagery is so lovely, don't you think?
This whole paragraph with Syson thinking how "He loved the place extraodinarily" and "To his last day, he would dream of this place"

"To his last day, he would dream of this place, when he felt the sun on his face, or saw the small handfuls of snow between the winter twigs, or smelt the coming of spring."

Janine, those are lovely quotes. The descriptions of nature are wonderful in this story.

Does anyone else find the statement "She was so static" strange? What are your opinions on that statement within this passage of text. Obviously it is from Syson's perspective, don't you think?

I find it odd. I don't know what to make of it. I'm not even sure what it's supposed to mean. How does a person go static? Does he mean she's standing still?

[Janine]

Hi everyone (in bold! ), Please read my previous post; sorry to post two together like this. Here is the continuation of the story:

"This was the countess's chair," she said in low tones. "I found her scissors down here between the padding."

"Did you? Where are they?"

Quickly, with a lilt in her movement, she fetched her work-basket, and together they examined the long-shanked old scissors.

"What a ballad of dead ladies!" he said, laughing, as he fitted his fingers into the round loops of the countess's scissors.

"I knew you could use them," she said, with certainty. He looked at his fingers, and at the scissors. She meant his fingers were fine enough for the small-looped scissors.

"That is something to be said for me," he laughed, putting the scissors aside.

She turned to the window. He noticed the fine, fair down on her cheek and her upper lip, and her soft, white neck, like the throat of a nettle flower, and her fore-arms, bright as newly blanched kernels. He was looking at her with new eyes, and she was a different person to him. He did not know her. But he could regard her objectively now.

What does everyone think is the significance of the sissors and this intimate moment between them? I found the line "ballad of dead ladies!" curious and interesting. Also note the mention of a "countess" - aristocracy perhaps contrasting to the simplistic life of Hilda? He wants him, the gentleman to have the sissors. Aso some significant words, phrases I have underlined.

I will underline some of the key words in next section:

"Shall we go out awhile?" she asked.

"Yes!" he answered. But the predominant emotion, that troubled the excitement and perplexity of his heart, was fear, fear of that which he saw.

There was about her the same manner, the same intonation in her voice, now as then, but she was not what he had known her to be. He knew quite well what she had been for him. And gradually he was realizing that she was something quite other, and always had been.

She put no covering on her head, merely took off her apron, saying, "We will go by the larches." As they passed the old orchard, she called him in to show him a blue-tit's nest in one of the apple trees, and a sycock's in the hedge. He rather wondered at her surety, at a certain hardness like arrogance hidden under her humility.

"Look at the apple buds," she said, and he then perceived myriads of little scarlet balls among the drooping boughs.

Watching his face, her eyes went hard. She saw the scales were fallen from him, and at last he was going to see her as she was. It was the thing she had most dreaded in the past, and most needed, for her soul's sake. Now he was going to see her as she was. He would not love her, and he would know he never could have loved her. The old illusion gone, they were strangers, crude and entire. But he would give her her due--she would have her due from him.

She was brilliant as he had not known her. She showed him nests: a jenny wren's in a low bush.

"See this jinty's!" she exclaimed.

He was surprised to hear her use the local name. She reached carefully through the thorns, and put her fingers in the nest's round door.

"Five!" she said. "Tiny little things."

She showed him nests of robins, and chaffinches, and linnets, and buntings; of a wagtail beside the water.

"And if we go down, nearer the lake, I will show you a kingfisher's . . ."

"Among the young fir trees," she said, "there's a throstle's or a blackie's on nearly every bough, every ledge. The first day, when I had seen them all, I felt as if I mustn't go in the wood. It seemed a city of birds: and in the morning, hearing them all, I thought of the noisy early markets. I was afraid to go in my own wood."

She was using the language they had both of them invented. Now it was all her own. He had done with it. She did not mind his silence, but was always dominant, letting him see her wood. As they came along a marshy path where forget-me-nots were opening in a rich blue drift: "We know all the birds, but there are many flowers we can't find out," she said. It was half an appeal to him, who had known the names of things.

Up until this point that follows Syson is observing Hilda and his reaction to her is interesting. There are many key words in the text to indicate that he recalls how she used to be. What follows is the reality and the scattering of the dream when she announces she has someone, "a lover as well". The beauty and intimacy of the scene up until this point if dissolved by the reality or intrusion symbolically of the new lover. Also, the last paragraph is very revealing with the use of the local language and the 'language they had both invented'; indicating more intimacy. Interesting he points out the 'forget-me-nots'. Also of interest - the word dominent to refer to Hilda.

She looked dreamily across to the open fields that slept in the sun.
"I have a lover as well, you know," she said, with assurance, yet dropping again almost into the intimate tone.

This woke in him the spirit to fight her.
"I think I met him. He is good-looking--also in Arcady."

Without answering, she turned into a dark path that led up-hill, where the trees and undergrowth were very thick.
"They did well," she said at length, "to have various altars to various gods, in old days."

Seems significant - this line various altars to various gods, in old days. I wonder if this could be a metaphor for how Syson worshiped Hilda in old days or a suggestion of it. Any opinions? Also if you notice now the scene has shifted from light to darkness - "turned into a dark path that led up-hill" seems significant to me and echoes the change in mood.

"Ah yes!" he agreed. "To whom is the new one?"

"There are no old ones," she said. "I was always looking for this."

"And whose is it?" he asked.

"I don't know," she said, looking full at him.

"I'm very glad, for your sake," he said, "that you are satisfied."

"Aye--but the man doesn't matter so much," she said. There was a pause.

"No!" he exclaimed, astonished, yet recognizing her as her real self.

"It is one's self that matters," she said. "Whether one is being one's own self and serving one's own God."

There was silence, during which he pondered. The path was almost flowerless, gloomy. At the side, his heels sank into soft clay.

This sunny scene has now turned to one of flowerless gloom - interesting don't you think? Also, Lawrence mentions soft clay often in his stories.
I think Virgil might be able to tell us the significance of this reference. I may have missed some significant phrases, words. Please everyone add comments to this text and the key words I sited.

[downing]

I was myself wondering about the title 'Shades of Spring' and now I have noticed something I would like to quote!

Shades also make me think of shadows, which makes me think of the past...which is what we are seeing her with Hilda and Syson...a shadow of a love that was in the past, or a shadow of love, which could mean it was never real. Hilda mentioned this, that he never saw her for who she was...meaning he was in love with a different Hilda...a shade?

This is a good theory, but personally I feel inclined towards another simple one: you see shade can be referred to a screen from light, complete darkness or even something unpleasant. Syson comes here in the spring, found his ex-lover in love with someone else and has to go away, and it is clear he doesn't seem very happy going back. This is something 'unpleasant' for him in what's-thought-to-be-a-beautiful-spring.

Pensy, I think both you an Downing are correct. Both theories fit nicely, so why couldn't they both be what he intended.

Virg, it was grace who came with that theory, not me. I agree with you, both Pensive and grace are right.

Does anyone else find the statement "She was so static" strange? What are your opinions on that statement within this passage of text. Obviously it is from Syson's perspective, don't you think?

I find it odd. I don't know what to make of it. I'm not even sure what it's supposed to mean. How does a person go static? Does he mean she's standing still?

I also find this a bit wierd. I think that it could be connected to Hilda's later statement: "I am like a plant,I can only grow in my own soil."Perhaps it refers to the fact that, unlike Syson, she was quite ''static''...she needed ''this environment'' as she says at a certain point.

Syson went round the buildings, and into the orchard at the back of the house, where daffodils all along the hedgerow swung like yellow, ruffled birds on their perches. He loved the place extraordinarily, the hills ranging round, with bear-skin woods covering their giant shoulders, and small red farms like brooches clasping their garments; the blue streak of water in the valley, the bareness of the home pasture, the sound of myriad-threaded bird-singing, which went mostly unheard. To his last day, he would dream of this place, when he felt the sun on his face, or saw the small handfuls of snow between the winter twigs, or smelt the coming of spring.

As a stylist in his writing I know Virgil will agree with me on this one, we both think L is extraordinary. I absolutely love this line in the story - "where daffodils all along the hedgerow swung like yellow, ruffled birds on their perches." - the imagery is so lovely, don't you think?
This whole paragraph with Syson thinking how "He loved the place extraodinarily" and "To his last day, he would dream of this place"

Janine, those are lovely quotes. The descriptions of nature are wonderful in this story.

I agree with you both. I was also impressed by the nature depictions Lawrence used.

What does everyone think is the significance of the sissors and this intimate moment between them? I found the line "ballad of dead ladies!" curious and interesting. Also note the mention of a "countess" - aristocracy perhaps contrasting to the simplistic life of Hilda? He wants him, the gentleman to have the sissors. Aso some significant words, phrases I have underlined.

I don't know what is about that countess. Did there live a countess in Hilda's house years before? I don't know what this is about, but this paragraph does certainly represent, as Janine said, an intimacy moment between Syson and Hilda. Also the quote about the ''ballad of dead ladies'' is strange...I'm curious what Virgil thinks about this passage.

She looked dreamily across to the open fields that slept in the sun.
"I have a lover as well, you know," she said, with assurance, yet dropping again almost into the intimate tone.

This woke in him the spirit to fight her.
"I think I met him. He is good-looking--also in Arcady."

Without answering, she turned into a dark path that led up-hill, where the trees and undergrowth were very thick.
"They did well," she said at length, "to have various altars to various gods, in old days."

Seems significant - this line various altars to various gods, in old days. I wonder if this could be a metaphor for how Syson worshiped Hilda in old days or a suggestion of it. Any opinions? Also if you notice now the scene has shifted from light to darkness - "turned into a dark path that led up-hill" seems significant to me and echoes the change in mood.

Thanks for pointing this out, Janine! When I read this dialogue, I thought that the altar refers to Hilda's love for Syson-years ago and for the keeper-in the present.I guess that the next part of the dialogue accetuates this aspect:

"Ah yes!" he agreed. "To whom is the new one?"

"There are no old ones," she said. "I was always looking for this."

Well, her reply makes me think that she never loved Syson... I really don't know what to believe. Maybe my interpretation is not good. If we apply this interpretation to the whole text, we find out that the Hilda's tears we talked about before might mean something else than love...Help me over here, I am confused.

[quasimodo1]

Be still when you have nothing to say; when genuine passion moves you, say what you've got to say, and say it hot.
D. H. Lawrence

[Janine]

Be still when you have nothing to say; when genuine passion moves you, say what you've got to say, and say it hot.
D. H. Lawrence

Good post Downing, I will wait and let Virgil answer it or anyone else who jumps in. I want to see if anyone can answer some of your questions, since I don't have any ideas now as to what L meant by certain phrases or words. I will have to think more about it.
quasi - nice quote, isn't it? I have a whole page in my file of these quotes of L's. We probably found the same site online.

I have a map of Lawrence's area (I scanned) and it includes 'Willey-Water' (note near the top of map, Willey Spring Wood) which someone pointed out was used in "Women in Love"; I also think it was in "Sons and Lovers". Below and little to the right of 'Willey Spring Wood' there is an area of water with a 'boat house' at the bottom. I think that is probably 'Willey-Water.' I think that 'Haggs Farm' would be the stand-in for Hilda's family's farm and house.
It very well must be the area that Lawrence is writing about in this story, with the woodlands and fields that Syson passes through. I thought it might interest all of you.

[Pensive]

I think the tears are also a reaction to his return and stirring up the feelings that Hilda must have had being left behind or hurt by Syson. That deep kind of rejection and hurt never really goes entirely away. Now she has moved on, but part of her remains faithful to her memories and affection for Syson. Obviously she has kept some part of him, by accepting his letters and poems. I think she accepted Syson from a distance with limitations and learned to live within herself; she mentions this later on in the story, saying she has the stars for herself or something like this, don't know the exact quote.

I agree with you, Janine! I don't think the tears in Hilda's eyes indicated her love for Syson (though it is possible) but rather she shed those tears because of the memories Syson must have brought with him.

Thanks for your comments on my bolding up type. Did you see what Scher did about that in "To The Lighthouse" thread (think it was in there).

Hehe, yes, I did, Janine!

Pensy, I think both you an Downing are correct. Both theories fit nicely, so why couldn't they both be what he intended.

You are right, this can be so! Lawrence already seems to be in love with ambiguity.

And thanks for showing us the map, Janine!

[Janine]

I agree with you, Janine! I don't think the tears in Hilda's eyes indicated her love for Syson (though it is possible) but rather she shed those tears because of the memories Syson must have brought with him.

Pensive, oh good, so we are in agreement. I think the tears are from the hurt she has endured in the past.

Hehe, yes, I did, Janine!

Very funny!!! If you noticed I have reduced it back to 1. I am shy now.....

You are right, this can be so! Lawrence already seems to be in love with ambiguity.

He does indeed. I think that is what fascinates me about him. His writing always gives me something to figure out.

Will be right back - want to post next part of story.

Next part of the story starts with III:

III

"I," she said, very slowly, "I was married the same night as you."
He looked at her.

"Not legally, of course," she replied. "But--actually."

"To the keeper?" he said, not knowing what else to say.
She turned to him.

"You thought I could not?" she said. But the flush was deep in her cheek and throat, for all her assurance.

Still he would not say anything.

"You see"--she was making an effort to explain--"I had to understand also."

"And what does it amount to, this understanding?" he asked.

"A very great deal--does it not to you?" she replied. "One is free."

"And you are not disappointed?"

"Far from it!" Her tone was deep and sincere.

"You love him?"

"Yes, I love him."

"Good!" he said.

This silenced her for a while.

"Here, among his things, I love him," she said.

His conceit would not let him be silent.
"It needs this setting?" he asked.

"It does," she cried. "You were always making me to be not myself."

He laughed shortly.
"But is it a matter of surroundings?" he said. He had considered her all spirit.

"I am like a plant," she replied. "I can only grow in my own soil."

[downing]

Good Janine, thanks for posting the next part of the story! I will make a few statements concerning it; I will quote and underline the things that seem important to me and I'll try to interpret them as well. I've also got some questions-I hope the debaters will help me find an answer to them.

But the flush was deep in her cheek and throat, for all her assurance.

Does the flush affirm the idea that Hilda was ''married'' ''actually'' to the keeper?

"You see"--she was making an effort to explain--"I had to understand also."

"And what does it amount to, this understanding?" he asked.

"A very great deal--does it not to you?" she replied. "One is free."

"And you are not disappointed?"

"Far from it!" Her tone was deep and sincere.

Sincerely, I don't get this. Of what understanding is Hilda talking about?

"Here, among his things, I love him," she said.

His conceit would not let him be silent.
"It needs this setting?" he asked.

"It does," she cried. "You were always making me to be not myself."

He laughed shortly.
"But is it a matter of surroundings?" he said. He had considered her all spirit.

"I am like a plant," she replied. "I can only grow in my own soil."

This part of the dialogue accentuates the difference between the two characters; Hilda is ''static'', like Syson perceived her at the beginning of their meeting, whereas he is a ''traveller'', just like Lawrence was.
I think that the quote I underlined: ''He had considered her all spirit'' revolves around the idea of Syson's comprehension of his former love's character. He now realises that she is not ''all spirit'', on the contrary. Hilda reproaches Syson with the fact that he made her feel not herself. This sustains the idea of how much different they two were.
And the quote of which we talked so much about:

"I am like a plant," she replied. "I can only grow in my own soil."

which I perceive as rather silly, shows us that Hilda is ''static''.

Well I have to say Good-bye now for a time(5 days I believe) because I am leaving for the countryside tomorrow.
I wish you only the best!

[Pensive]

Does the flush affirm the idea that Hilda was ''married'' ''actually'' to the keeper?

What do you mean by 'actually' married? I think not if you mean the legal process because she has said herself 'not legally'. It must mean that she started a relationship with him that day.

Sincerely, I don't get this. Of what understanding is Hilda talking about?

I think it means she had to understand it that Syson was no longer hers. He was a married man and had to try to let go of Syson's image from her head.

Well I have to say Good-bye now for a time(5 days I believe) because I am leaving for the countryside tomorrow.
I wish you only the best!

Oh this seems like fun! I hope you enjoy that time!

[downing]

Does the flush affirm the idea that Hilda was ''married'' ''actually'' to the keeper?

What do you mean by 'actually' married? I think not if you mean the legal process because she has said herself 'not legally'. It must mean that she started a relationship with him that day.

This was what I meant when I said ''actually''-as you said, the fact that she started a relationship with him that day:

''I," she said, very slowly, "I was married the same night as you."
He looked at her.

"Not legally, of course," she replied. "But--actually."

Oh this seems like fun! I hope you enjoy that time!

Thanks, Pensy