Summer '07 Reading: 'To The Lighthouse' by Virginia Woolf

[Scheherazade]

Janine



(Sorry; in a goofy mood... woof!)

[Janine]

Janine



(Sorry; in a goofy mood... woof!)

I could not stop laughing - thanks Scher.....that is a good one!!!

[motherhubbard]

I started this book last night. I voted for this book; a friend of mine loves Woolf. Man- is the whole thing going to be like this? Oh, I don’t know if I can make it through. I don’t even know what I’ve already read. It sounds like the stuff that goes on in my brain when I haven’t had any sleep and I still have miles to go. How can anyone follow another’s rambling thoughts around in a circle until it all comes back again, then put together those peaces to make any since? I’ll start over again today and see if it makes any better sense.

[DianaT]

I don't think I'm skilled enough of an analyst to make particularly interesting remarks about Woolf because her writing is quite complex. However reading a novel like To the Lighthouse, for me, is much like listening to a Mozart opera--I may not understand everything completely (i.e. the harmonic structure and how it shapes, with liberty and restraint, the melodic lines; not to mention the foreign language in which the libretto is sung ) while listening "casually."

I just finished To the Lighthouse, and loved it. I found the prose flowed smoothly and melodically. I am excited to see what others discover while reading the text. I love reading analysis of novels.

But for now I'm going to transition from the flowing prose of Woolf to the staggering action of Wimbledon (talk about drama ).

Diana

[Behemoth]

This was one of the required texts for my course this year (I certainly wouldn't have approached it with a bargepole otherwise) and although I probably wouldn't read it again, I was pleasantly surprised with what I found. The stream-of-consciousness works well once you become accustomed to it, and I think the 'Time Passes' section is beautifully written. However, I absolutely cannot stand the character of Mrs Ramsay and I think it's that more than anything which would keep me from re-reading this in the future.

[plainjane]

Man- is the whole thing going to be like this? Oh, I don’t know if I can make it through. I don’t even know what I’ve already read. It sounds like the stuff that goes on in my brain when I haven’t had any sleep and I still have miles to go.

Kinda the way I felt first starting, but once you get in the flow so to speak, it is wonderful. And seeing the same view from different aspects is informative as well.

[applepie]

I started this book last night. I voted for this book; a friend of mine loves Woolf. Man- is the whole thing going to be like this? Oh, I don’t know if I can make it through. I don’t even know what I’ve already read. It sounds like the stuff that goes on in my brain when I haven’t had any sleep and I still have miles to go. How can anyone follow another’s rambling thoughts around in a circle until it all comes back again, then put together those peaces to make any since? I’ll start over again today and see if it makes any better sense.

I'm having the same problem. It feels like someone is just saying "Blah, Blah, Blah...." in my head while I am reading. I'm holding to the idea that once I get used to the rambling way in which it seems to be written I'll start to make more sense of everything.

[Quark]

Well, I'll say two things about the novel--one encouraging others to read the novel, and the other warning them of its shortcomings.

Encomium:
To The Lighthouse is a great representation of change: intellectually, spiritually, personally, whatever. Woolf creates the two Ramsey parents as stand-ins for the typical Victorian ideas. Mrs. Ramsey, for example, has all the conservative (and sexist) ideas as to women's place in society. She also represents the philanthropic ideal of the earlier nineteenth century. To make Mrs. Ramsey even less ambiguous, Woolf has her positioned in front of a picture of Queen Victoria at least once in the novel. Mr. Ramsey, like his wife, could be considered a conservative Victorian voice. He has all of the intellectual ambitions of the previous generation. He even quotes Tennyson. Both Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey have the Victorian ideal in mind; but, despite their high hopes, they consider themselves failures. Mr. Ramsey is comically stuck on Q, and Mrs. Ramsey knows she cannot end worldwide suffering. The parents must place their hope in their children and their younger friends who have radically different notions. This contrast comes out most strikingly in Lily Briscoe. Her painting is new and inventive; it aims at a completely different object than the one expected. In the tension between Lily Briscoe and Mrs. Ramsey we see the profound change occurring and all the confused feeling that go along with it. Both Mrs. Ramsey and Lily don't know what to make of each other. The complicated relationship between the past, present, and future is experience within their characters, and it's fun to watch.

Complaint:
I think the novel is a little over critical. Sometimes its overly suspicious to the point of paranoia. When Minta Doyle wants to hold Nancy's hand, Nancy's first thought is, "What is it that she wants?". The most basic affection is approached only warily. Not only do the characters have problems accepting emotion from others, they can't make the minimal effort to express themselves. Either a character makes the most circuitous attempt at a genuine communication, or they don't at all. The narrative is the closest thing we get to psychological contact with them, but even this seems distant. Distant? No erratic is probably the best word. It comes and goes; sometimes it is very subtle and at other times its brutally honest. Compare this to the transparency of Shakespeare's characters or Dickens'. Obviously, I'm not saying that Woolf should emulate them. I'm not even saying that her characters are poorly done. I just think that Woolf could be a little more forthcoming.

[Virgil]

Perhaps I should try to help a little with this since some of you are having trouble. First this is not a plot oriented novel. The tension is psychological. And her writing style weaves through the minds of the characters. This is what is going on in part I:

The main drama is occuring between Mrs Ramsey and Mr Ramsey, in that they are disputing whether to take their little child James on the next day to go visit the lighthouse. Also all the characters are all waitng or planning to attend Mrs Ramsey's dinner party that evening. Along with that Mrs Ramsey is trying to help two couples: Paul and Minta to get married (she has set them up) and Lily and William Bankes, trying to now set them up with hopes of a future marriage. Lily resists it, she is a solitary person and just wants to paint her picture. There are other guests as well and also the rest of the Ramsey's children. They each have certain motivations and psychologies. All though are centered in some way around Mrs Ramsey, her personality, and aura. Part I climaxes with the dinner party with the reflection of what Mrs Ramsey means to them.

And then we get to part II.

[Janine]

Quark and Virgil - I commend both of you on your excellent posts and explanations of the novel and it's style. I read the book a few years back and will be starting it soon, after I finish a short work of 100 pgs I am currently reading and half way. I think from Quark's explanation, I now can better conceptualize what I previously had read and my impression of the story and characters. This, in other words, clarifies my own vague ideas on what the story was intended to say or represent. Virgil is correct in saying this is not a 'plot driven' novel, although a simple plot does emerge eventually. I like his synopsis of part I - that was very helpful to me, in refreshing my memory. Thanks, V. It is the relationships in the novel and the interaction of the characters and their thoughts that are most important to this concentrated/intense novel. It is more 'cerebral' than most novels and so one has to withdraw into the minds of the characters, let their thoughts just flow within that 'weaving' and look beyond any concrete storyline. If you keep searching for a plot you will miss the nuances in the characters themselves and that is the main interest of the book, in my opinion.

[applepie]

Thank you both Virgil and Quark for your explanations. I still hold little hope of enjoying the novel, but at least I know where it is going somewhat. I've been more worried that admist all the talking that there was some busy plot that I'm missing when there seemed to be endless pages of thoughts about walking out of the house and such. I'm going to spend some time reading tonight and maybe I'll start to like the story a little better. It is nice to know before hand to not expect much in the way of plot since now I will not have the expectations and therefore no dissapointment in that arena. Thanks again for the explanations.

Meg

[Nossa]

I started reading the novel last night...as I couldn't get my hands on my copy, I had to search for an online text to start...but hopefully, I'll get my copy soon enough.
I'm still a little confused, that I have to read certain parts more than once. But so far, I think I understand almost everything.
I'm in no position of analysing Woolf's works myself, but I think I'm really gonna enjoy the discussion

[middleyears]

Hi, I new to this forum but what got me to join was the fact that you guys were going to read To the Lighthouse... I just read it for my "Mystical Writers" class... Not saying that what I learned is 100% correct, but when studied in class, the novel was very mystical... In the first part of the book we hear a lot about the lighthouse... As a matter of fact, we hear Mrs Ramsey comparing herself to the lighthouse... She says she is the steady beam of light... (I think, I'm trying to remember some of it) At the end of the first part we have the dinner party and we pretty much see what everyone thinks of everyone else... We find that everyone loves Mrs Ramsey and that she is the one that brings everyone together... They all come together in communion as represented by the fruit. The fruit mimmicks the wedge shape of the lighthouse. Mrs Ramsey doesn't like when someone takes a piece of fruit because it disrupts the shape... It makes her uncomfortable...
We know the dinner party was a very important part of the book because in the third part we see Lily reflect on it and remember it vividly.. But I'll leave it at this as I don't want to ruin the end for those who didn't finish it...
Thanks for letting me be a part of To the Lighthouse.... And happy reading...

[Virgil]

Oh I can't wait to discuss this either. I promise I will start in a serious way by the first of August. This is an all summer read. Thanks middleyears for bringing up the symbolism of the Lighthouse and its link to Mrs. Ramsey.

[Janine]

Hi middleyears and welcome to this forum, I am so glad you are going to join us. I will be starting my reading soon of the novel. I am very familiar with the novel and the story since I read it several years back and also (now some may groan) I own the BBC film version, which is quite close to the book and well done. I have wanted to discuss the book/story for sometime now. Having just read your post, I am excited since it seems you have gathered much insight into various parts and symbols in the book, which you picked up in your recent class. I have never thought of the book as 'mystical' - how very interesting. This gives it a new direction and interests me. I also, did not correlate Mrs. Ramsey to the 'lighthouse' as a symbol. This is good as you quoted it. I agree - the dinner party seems to be very significant and I believe it also marks the passage of time. Were there not two dinner parties or two dinners in the entire book that are of significance? The big significant dinner party with all the guests attending does mark a time they all gather collectively and each personality is made very evident with contrasts and comparisons and loyalities and pettiness as each thinks about the individuals that make up the group. It is like a mini-world. In fact, I felt the dinner party to be the most memorable event in the book. Now, by reading your post and writing this, I have interested myself in my second reading. I am anxious to get started.
To others - stick with the book, eventually a very coherent story does emerge and it draws one into the thought process(es) of the story. The characters begin to form and take most definite shape and are the interesting part of this novel. Each is presented as a very distinct portrait.