Do you want me to tell you the end?
Do you want me to tell you the end?
This sounds like an interesting story...I'll try finding it tomorrow and start reading it.
I'm the patron saint of the denial,
With an angel face and a taste for suicidal.
I'm glad someone else has started. I'm just under half way done. I love the machinery, but I think it's more than that to the chief. The more I read the more I see that he believes that there is actual machinery. It makes me wonder how easy it is to let an idea become fact in your own mind. I also have to wonder if the nurse means to be so demoralizing, or is it in her hard to do what she believes is best. I think our window into the situation has it's own tint.
Agree with you that the Chief believes that there is an actual machine/robot controlling things. When he mentions that once he opened up one of his medication capsules after pretending to have swallowed it, he says he saw a tiny machine inside the dust for a fleeting second.Originally Posted by motherhubbard
I was also wondering how it would feel to have the line between what is real and what is imaginary blurred... Once you start believing that what you are experiencing is real, how do you get out of that loop? How can you tell which one is which?
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"It is not that I am mad; it is only that my head is different from yours.”
~
I think one of the reasons I disliked the book was because I found McMurphy to be a hero with really no redeemable qualities, just about everything he does is because he wants it anyway. If he didnt want it I doubt he would have done anything out of the goodness of his own heart.
There once was a scotsman named Drew
Who put too much wine in his stew
He felt a bit drunk
And fell off his bunk
And landed smack into his shoe ~(C) Ms Niamh Anne King
So...you must have already read the book? Well, I've just re-read it, which is not really fair for everyone racing to be the first one done, so don't count me in that race...I recently re-read the book before I knew about the reading but am looking forward to the discussion.
Although there is a positive message(s) to be found in the novel, I do think Kesey puts forth many depressing realities about life. Is your cup half full or half empty? Will look forward to elaborating when most people are done reading.
Re the movie, Kesey didn't want it made into a movie afterall because the movie has a different narrator than the novel! Of course we all love Jack Nicolson but yes, the book is better.
I can see your point of view. However, he does raise the spirits of the patients in the hospital and increases their quality of life if only for a snapshot in time. This is a redeemable quality, isn't it? Even if he wanted the attention...
"I have so often dreamed of you that you become unreal." ~ Robert Desnos
No, I dont see that as redeemable. To me its still self-centred, and I had a real hard time liking him. (I dont actually expect many to agree with me about this, my high school teacher refused to mark the essay 'cos she said my premise was innacurrate).
I will address things more fully once people have finished reading.
There once was a scotsman named Drew
Who put too much wine in his stew
He felt a bit drunk
And fell off his bunk
And landed smack into his shoe ~(C) Ms Niamh Anne King
Okay, but he did have a zest for life, didn't he? That must be a redeemable quality, huh?
Yes, this is an interesting thread in the story. Real vs. imaginary. Schizophrenics, point of view, psychedelics- who knows what is real? How can we trust the narrator to present reality, or can we? Whose reality? Is the nurse's real world real? Is the patients world real? Is one more real than anothers?
Do people want to "get out of that loop" of what they believe?
"I have so often dreamed of you that you become unreal." ~ Robert Desnos
I'm trying to be objective in my view of each character instead of solely relying on the perspective of Chief. There are certain things about nurse Ratched that make me wonder. How does her military training influence her management of the patients? They just do things differently and it isn’t like Sunday school. The loud music makes me suspicious of her. Bombarding someone with loud music is a tactic used to break people down (Like they used in Waco, TX). Why is she so unyielding, is their care her main interest or is it complete authority?
That depends on how the zest for life is applied.
Regarding Nurse Ratched, I dont see her as particularly bad - more misguided. I think she truly believes what she is doing will help the patients, however her techniques are outdated (only mildly at time of the novel, but completely now) I see her as the stereotypical battleaxe nurse. Completely sure in her convictions but really doing more harm than good.
There once was a scotsman named Drew
Who put too much wine in his stew
He felt a bit drunk
And fell off his bunk
And landed smack into his shoe ~(C) Ms Niamh Anne King
Talking of Nurse Ratched, do you think her name is a play on the word 'wretched'? Their pronunciations are quite similar I think (need a native to confirm me here, please!)?
Even though I am only 1/3 through the book, I think I agree with Kilted regarding the Nurse. So far, I don't think she has shown any signs of intentional 'harm'.
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"It is not that I am mad; it is only that my head is different from yours.”
~
Yes, they are similar. Also there is a tie in to the machinery part with her name also being so much like ratchet.
There once was a scotsman named Drew
Who put too much wine in his stew
He felt a bit drunk
And fell off his bunk
And landed smack into his shoe ~(C) Ms Niamh Anne King
Hey, didn't know that word (can't say I know what it is even after looking it up in the dictionary)! Thanks, Kilted!
~
"It is not that I am mad; it is only that my head is different from yours.”
~
I think this is one of the aspects that make the book very interesting. One cannot help getting carried away and take his word for the happenings but, often enough, we are reminded that the Chief should not be relied on: The constant references to fog and warped time concept, eg. Also he seems to know things he should not; eg, the story about one of the carer's childhood and reason for his so-called hate. I really like this passage (at the end of Chief's dream):On a separate note, the Night Nurse's reaction to McMurphy is one of the funniest things I have read:Right and left ther eare other things happening just as bad - crazy, horrible things too goofy and oulandish to cry about and too much true to laugh about - but the fog is getting thick enough I don't have to watch. And somebody's tugging at my arm. I know already what will happen: somebody'll drag me out of the fog and we'll be back on the ward and there won't be a sign of what went on tongiht and if I was fool enough to try and tell anybody it they'd say, Idiot, you just had a nightmare; things as crazy as big machine room down in the bowels of a dam where people get cut up by robot workers don't exist.
But if they don't exist, how can a man see them?"Stay back! Patients aren't allowed to enter the - Oh, stay back, I'm a Catholic!"
~
"It is not that I am mad; it is only that my head is different from yours.”
~
I didn't read the book yet; i will soon. But in the movie she was a controlling freak, who thinks herself as boss of ill people and trying to dominate and control them with no respect to their personalities. From this oint of view, McMurphy may be a hero with a redeemable quality. He rebelled to symbol of harsh authority and this makes him someone who have redeemable quality. As i remember McMurphy seem to be self-centered, but it was just looking like his outlooking, from the inside he was a good guy and that's why he tried to attack the nurse when the nurse was a reason of suicide of one of other ills.
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