can somebody help me understand this?!

[weepingforloman]

That material is not mine, Dostoevsky wrote the book; its, uh, supposed to be pretty good...

It appeared to me that you agreed with "the material."

[PrinceMyshkin]

You can only believe if God elects you. The criteria for salvation is the same, it's just that the initiative lies with God. His election is reflected in temporal existence.

For heaven’s sake, put aside your voodoo dolls, your tribal Gods and shibboleths, your priestly feathers and leopard-skins, your ever more sophisticated parsing of ancient texts, and concern yourself with over-population, global warming, starvation, the unequal distribution of wealth, pandemics...

[weepingforloman]

I am, of course, concerned with these things. God is, too. He tells us to be just, well, then we must be just. He tells us to care for the poor, well, then we must care for the poor. He says a rich man cannot get into the kingdom of God anymore than a camel can pass through the eye of a needle. Well, then the rich must give away their belongings.

[PrinceMyshkin]

I am, of course, concerned with these things. God is, too. He tells us to be just, well, then we must be just. He tells us to care for the poor, well, then we must care for the poor. He says a rich man cannot get into the kingdom of God anymore than a camel can pass through the eye of a needle. Well, then the rich must give away their belongings.

Let us begin then with those churches that have extensive real estate holdings, artifacts of gold and silver, giving away their belongings. As for what God is or is not concerned with, I have yet to hear from him other than in a book which proclaims that it is the work of God but which is derived from many other sources of other 'Gods' who have passed away.

[Gorilla King]

Let us begin then with those churches that have extensive real estate holdings, artifacts of gold and silver, giving away their belongings. As for what God is or is not concerned with, I have yet to hear from him other than in a book which proclaims that it is the work of God but which is derived from many other sources of other 'Gods' who have passed away.

You've made a lot of claims, now provide evidence.

[PrinceMyshkin]

You've made a lot of claims, now provide evidence.

There is none so blind as those who will not see. Which of course you might equally retort to me if I were to ask you for evidence of the existence of your God (as distinct from that of the myriad other sects and cults).

However, some sources you might consult are:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...837684,00.html

http://www.infidels.org/library/hist...n_america.html

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...34/ai_20226914

And many others you could Google

[Scheherazade]

It will be a shame if the thread gets closed simply because some are unable to refrain from making personal comments or showing disrespect towards others' beliefs.

[Gorilla King]

I don't disagree that the mega churches and such are a waste of money, but you made far more claims than that.

[weepingforloman]

Let us begin then with those churches that have extensive real estate holdings, artifacts of gold and silver, giving away their belongings. As for what God is or is not concerned with, I have yet to hear from him other than in a book which proclaims that it is the work of God but which is derived from many other sources of other 'Gods' who have passed away.

I suggest you read Mere Christianity, and pay special attention to the section in which Mr. Lewis discusses "good dreams." I believe his explanation of it appears in other of his works as well.

[PrinceMyshkin]

I suggest you read Mere Christianity, and pay special attention to the section in which Mr. Lewis discusses "good dreams." I believe his explanation of it appears in other of his works as well.

I feel that this is hopeless and I am hereby withdrawing from the discussion. The world is filled with people who hold beliefs other than mine, in some cases contradictory to mine, and yet I am content to leave them alone. I cannot adequately explain to you why it is not so for me vis a vis religious believers of every kind, but most particularly the evangelical sort. I feel - and I want to acknowledge that this is a personal feeling, one I’m not prepared to support with argument - I feel that religion is not merely wrong but that it is dangerous. Dangerous in the way that it is dangerous for any of us to live in or under mythologies.

I also feel that religious folk are among the worst for further dividing the world into Us and Them. Witness, if in no other way, the concept that only certain of us will go to Heaven. Now, I do not believe in an afterlife but I sometimes feel that this projection of my non-entrance to heaven is tantamount to wishing me in Hell - and in the present!

[weepingforloman]

I am sorry you feel that way. Understand that any shortcoming, in terms of hostility at least, of Christians is NOT the result of the beliefs, but of the person.

Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

[Gorilla King]

And the last thing I'll say about it is if in fact the Christian concept of heaven and hell is true (which I believe it is but I know you do not) then it's not by God's will that you would go to hell, but by your own choosing. And it's not because God is a tyrant. He became a man and gave his own life so that you could go to heaven. The reason you won't is for rejecting God's payment for your sins. Though while you still live there is still hope, but the choice just as with Adam and Eve between relying on God and relying on yourself for salvation is in your hands.

[Mr. Dr. Ralph]

It appeared to me that you agreed with "the material."

I was answering the original post, chill bro

[weepingforloman]

(Taking liberal amounts of Ritalin)

[Logos]

hey all, the other day i came across this quote by Voltaire:

"If God didn't exist it would be necessary for us to invent Him"

....

my question is how can someone not believe in anything how can you be an atheist?

This thread is no longer addressing the OP.