April / Wharton Reading: 'Ethan Frome'

[Alexei]

The narrator does not change, from start to finish it is always the engineer on work assignment who tells the story. At the end of the introductory chapter he states: It was that night that I found the clue to Ethan Frome, and began to put together this vision of his story... (then immediately followed by chapter One).

It is just that in the introductory chapter the narrator is more involved, he is part of the scene, there is first person narration. By contrast, from chapters One to Nine, the same narrator is completely detached; he tells Ethan Frome's story as he imagines the way it would have transpired and at the same time tries to tell it from Ethan's point of view.

Oh, yes, of course!!! I am such an idiot! You are completely right. After all, almost th whole book is in 3d person, and I have seen this! Of course!!!

[Janine]

Janine, That Hamlet quote is interesting and I need to study it further. Lit. critics make a great deal about Conrad's mention of a nutshell in a diff. way in "Heart of Darkness." C's emphasis is not on the msg. from within, but the glow of the moonlight on the haze that is outside the nut. Meaning is derived from "outside" the nut, not inside. I wonder now if Conrad was creatively doing a take-off or departure from that Hamlet quote. Byquist

byquist, well in the film version, when Hamlet recites this line, it always gets to me. I think - wow that is me! Some may think "what - a nut?" Truly though I am happy in my own little/huge world of "infinite space" - everything is in the perception of life.
You bring up a very interesting point and analogy to "Heart of Darkness". Unfortunately I have not read the book, but now it interests me, and lately I have been hearing a lot about it. If Conrad is seeing the glow on the outside of the nut, then I would think it a 'departure'. Well, not unusual that he might have thought about the Shakespeare words, since all authors draw from knowledge of other authors, even subconsciously. Perhaps he wished to expand on the nutshell image and meaning or deviate and express his own perception. I personally see the shell as a 'confinement' that really is an 'expansion' - of mind and spirit. Some may say readers are in a world of their own and retreat from the real world, or dreamers, or visionaries. But perhaps their world is more 'real' than the 'physical' world which most would consider "real". This would be my understanding on the Shakespeare quote. What do you think? Certainly it is an interesting connection to the Conrad story. I will have to venture further into it.

The narrator does not change, from start to finish it is always the engineer on work assignment who tells the story. At the end of the introductory chapter he states: It was that night that I found the clue to Ethan Frome, and began to put together this vision of his story... (then immediately followed by chapter One).

It is just that in the introductory chapter the narrator is more involved, he is part of the scene, there is first person narration. By contrast, from chapters One to Nine, the same narrator is completely detached; he tells Ethan Frome's story as he imagines the way it would have transpired and at the same time tries to tell it from Ethan's point of view.

bouquin, this is good and actually kicks off the book discussion very well, I think. It is interesting to note how the tone changes from introduction to core body of the book. It changed so much that Alexei even perceived that now Ethan was telling his own story. You are correct in that the narrator, too, takes on a different sort of role - less prominent and mades the story seem to be coming from Ethan's own persception or mind. I find this devise quite brilliant on Wharton's part. It does help to build suspense in a slowpaced sort of quiet way.

[bouquin]

yeah, something came up before I could expound further.

I have to disagree with several members, I thought the plot was predictable and kinda slow.

The interesting part was that everybody in a way got what they wanted. Ethan and Mattie stayed together and Zeena got something to do (I'm choosing to believe her sickness resulted more from her mind then anything else.).

I think Zeena was merely a hypochondriac; otherwise, if she were really seriously ill she would already have died long ago trying to take care of Mattie and Ethan. At the end of the story she seemed to be the "healthiest" of them all. One could almost imagine her taking a kind of perverse delight in Mattie and Ethan's tragic situation.

[papayahed]

I think Zeena was merely a hypochondriac; otherwise, if she were really seriously ill she would already have died long ago trying to take care of Mattie and Ethan. At the end of the story she seemed to be the "healthiest" of them all. One could almost imagine her taking a kind of perverse delight in Mattie and Ethan's tragic situation.

I wonder if she knew there was something between Mattie and Ethan? It seem like not much escaped her.

[Janine]

I think Zeena was merely a hypochondriac; otherwise, if she were really seriously ill she would already have died long ago trying to take care of Mattie and Ethan. At the end of the story she seemed to be the "healthiest" of them all. One could almost imagine her taking a kind of perverse delight in Mattie and Ethan's tragic situation.

bouquin, Oh, Yes, I agree. I think basically Zeena was a hypochondriac and she was actually quite ill mentally, but physically she probably played up any ach or pain and took all kinds of medication - perhaps just making herself sick and weak in the process. She definitely magnified anything she wanted to like the new doctor's report or advice. We never really know exactly what that doctor told her - only what she wanted us to believe was true. Good point - if seriously ill she would have died by now, shame she didn't. Of course we should not forget that in her mentally ill state she is a self-centered, pathetic person. And how did taking care of Ethan's parents make her ill? She, artfully, throws that one up in Ethan's face, somewhere towards the end of the book. She knew how to hit him at a low point and to inflict a guilt trip on him as well. Good point - ironically, at the end of the novel she does appear to be the healtiest of all the characters and I do think she would delight in the tragedy of Mattie and Ethan's situation. It would put her on top and the winner in the end, at least in her eyes.

Papayahead, To your question:

I wonder if she knew there was something between Mattie and Ethan? It seem like not much escaped her.

I do think that Zeena is aware of Mattie and Ethan's feeling for each other, from the beginning. Yes, of course when she goes away for the night and leaves them alone in the house, she tries to set them up so she can catch them at something indescent or irregular. She is very coniving, don't you think? If she catches them in anything out of the ordinary, such as the breaking of the pickle dish, and the reason the pickle dish was even used for dinner to begin with, she has a great excuse or reason to send Mattie away for good. It is some bit of evidence to back up her vague feelings and be justified as a wife to rid herself of this girl, who she now sees as a threat to her marriage. Of course we all know it is not much of a marriage, but to Zeena it is all she really has. Any breakup would undermine her own security. Zeena is a very controlling person or at least tries to be.

[bouquin]

[B]I do think that Zeena is aware of Mattie and Ethan's feeling for each other, from the beginning. Yes, of course when she goes away for the night and leaves them alone in the house, she tries to set them up so she can catch them at something indescent or irregular. She is very coniving, don't you think? If she catches them in anything out of the ordinary, such as the breaking of the pickle dish, and the reason the pickle dish was even used for dinner to begin with, she has a great excuse or reason to send Mattie away for good. It is some bit of evidence to back up her vague feelings and be justified as a wife to rid herself of this girl, who she now sees as a threat to her marriage. Of course we all know it is not much of a marriage, but to Zeena it is all she really has. Any breakup would undermine her own security. Zeena is a very controlling person or at least tries to be.

I find Zeena very controlling indeed. And Ethan's weakness is that he succumbs to the control wielded by the two women in his life. Firstly, he cannot bring himself to defy the moral and social control that Zeena has over him through their being married; and secondly, he is just so wishy-washy about his plans to run off with Mattie and it is she who decides what they should do to get out of their seemingly hopeless predicament. Ethan just goes along with what the women want.

[Virgil]

I'm through chapter seven, so almost finished. But I expect a big climax coming. I'm really enjoying this work. I'm finding a well crafted novel. It's such a short, fast, and enjoyable read i think I'll re-read it again right after. I'll hold my thoughts until I'm through it once.

[Janine]

I find Zeena very controlling indeed. And Ethan's weakness is that he succumbs to the control wielded by the two women in his life. Firstly, he cannot bring himself to defy the moral and social control that Zeena has over him through their being married; and secondly, he is just so wishy-washy about his plans to run off with Mattie and it is she who decides what they should do to get out of their seemingly hopeless predicament. Ethan just goes along with what the women want.

bouquin, I do think Ethan gets manipulated by both women, but mostly Zeena. I think your explanation of the ending is a little too pat or perfect. I recall an entire passage when Ethan carefully goes over all the options he has in his mind to elope with Matty and go West. In the final analysis the whole idea is really quite hopeless. I agree in retrospect, that that would probably have been the better option, but at the time Ethan felt totally trapped in all ways: emotionally, financially, and ultimately in his duty to his wife in not leaving her destitude. I will try to find the passages online and copy to post those paragraphs, in which he reasons all of it out, finally coming to the conclusion there is no way out for him. He is dedicated to both women and that is why he does go along with Matty. Of course, that decision is spontaneous, maybe as an act of passion, and not well thought out, but it was a 'option' as to how to escape their predictament.

I'm through chapter seven, so almost finished. But I expect a big climax coming. I'm really enjoying this work. I'm finding a well crafted novel. It's such a short, fast, and enjoyable read i think I'll re-read it again right after. I'll hold my thoughts until I'm through it once.

Virgil, well put, describing this book! I thought you would like it. It is a 'well crafted novel'. The theme of the book sort of reminds me of D.H.Lawrence's short stories. EF is short and easy to read. I think I read it now 3 times. A second reading will be beneficial to you. I think it is a beautifully written novel.

[Schokokeks]

I'm done with it, too, and liked it very much . Brevity is the soul of wit .

It seems like not much escaped [Zeena].

I think basically Zeena was a hypochondriac and she was actually quite ill mentally [...]
Of course we should not forget that in her mentally ill state she is a self-centered, pathetic person.

I agree with papaya and the hypochondriac idea, but I would not call Zeena mentally ill. But this of course depends on whether one uses that expression in a pathological sense or merely to say she was behaving excentrically.
I had the impression that she was well aware of all that was happening around her and used her alleged weakness / frailty to pull the threads and to tie Ethan to her, knowing about his sense of duty. I do not think a mentally ill person (pathological), depending on the degree, of course, would be that contriving.

And how did taking care of Ethan's parents make her ill? She, artfully, throws that one up in Ethan's face, somewhere towards the end of the book. She knew how to hit him at a low point and to inflict a guilt trip on him as well.

I agree, that was quite a hit . Ethan confesses at some point that after his mother had died and Zeena was about to leave again, he panicked with the idea to be alone in the house and, out of that fear, proposed to her.
Contrary to Zeena, who always has her will, Ethan is presented being such a wimp .

[Janine]

I'm done with it, too, and liked it very much . Brevity is the soul of wit .




I agree with papaya and the hypochondriac idea, but I would not call Zeena mentally ill. But this of course depends on whether one uses that expression in a pathological sense or merely to say she was behaving excentrically.
I had the impression that she was well aware of all that was happening around her and used her alleged weakness / frailty to pull the threads and to tie Ethan to her, knowing about his sense of duty. I do not think a mentally ill person (pathological), depending on the degree, of course, would be that contriving.

Hi, Schokokeks,
Well, I live with a person with bipolar disorder and believe me they can be very aware, very manipulative, very contriving, and very mean (at times) as well. Sly is a good way of putting their behavior, also, and they are keen and smart, as well. If not on the right medication, there behavior would be even more pronounced and evident. There are many degrees of mental illness and that is only one disorder that I mentioned. I knew a woman who was a true hypochondriatic and her family loved her but they suffered greatly. She was very contriving and manipulative. Sadly enough she took an overdose and died one day alone. They are very pathetic people.

I agree, that was quite a hit . Ethan confesses at some point that after his mother had died and Zeena was about to leave again, he panicked with the idea to be alone in the house and, out of that fear, proposed to her.
Contrary to Zeena, who always has her will, Ethan is presented being such a wimp .

I hate hearing people call Ethan a whimp. I don't see it that way. He was financially and emotionally trapped. He knew no other thing, but taking care of people. He was disfunctional as all the characters are in this story, but he was hardly a whimp. A whimp could not provide for three people and Ethan worked hard to do so. He was a certain quiet personality and a dreamer, but not a whimp in my definition of the word.

[SleepyWitch]

He knew no other thing, but taking care of people. He was disfunctional as all the characters are in this story, but he was hardly a whimp. A whimp could not provide for three people and Ethan worked hard to do so. He was a certain quiet personality and a dreamer, but not a whimp in my definition of the word.

i think his life is determined by the social circumstances he lives in. when he consideres eloping with Mattie he nearly decides to do it but then he can't make up his mind because a) he feels he has to support Zeena and b) he doesn't have enough money to go west.

if he could shake off his traditional views (the husband has to provide for the wife etc) and free himself from these obligations he'd be able to leave Zeena.
also, if he were less realistic/materialistic he and Mattie could go West anyway. they'd be destitute tramps but at least they'd be together.
the only way of living he knows is to live as a married man and hard-working farmer.

[Virgil]

I finished last night and I think this is an excellent novel. Although I must say I have mixed feelings on the climax. This was such a fast and pleasurable read, I'm going to re-read it before I comment on the ending.

Some good points already made. Let me give some of my thoughts.

As to the frame structure, Wharton's use here seems closer to Emily Bronte's use in Wuthering Heights. Wharton does it I think (IMO, before anyone jumps on me for thinking I'm an authority) to present an outsider's perspective up front. The core of the novel is told from Ethan's point of view, and I assume he is the one telling the narrator the story, and the narrator has written it out. To present an eye witness looking in at Ethan up front does several things: it separates the world that Ethan lives in as opposed to the outside world; it introduces another's value judgement; it gives the story more foundation as fact; it brings the reader in as if to say, look at this weird guy (we've all have seen such weird guys), what's his story? If the story was told only from the weird guy's point of view, then we wouldn't have the contrast. Ethan's world is quite distinct in many ways, somewhat out dated (perhaps there's a better word?) at the turn of the 20th century, but certainly still existed in rural pockets.

Another interesting fact is that the narrator is an engineer, and that Ethan had studied engineering in Worcester, the big city. Worcester is an industrial city, I've been there, and while somewhat delapidated today because it has not quite made the transition to the computer age, was an important technical center 100 years ago. There are good technical universties there still. This really caught my attention, since I'm an engineer , and given that both characters were or almost were engineers cannot be coincidence. There is clearly a suggestion here that Wharton is making, and given the shocking and detailed hard farming life that she narrates, presents a contrast between the modern world and an old world.

Another point, nature is no friend here. I don't recall reading any scene (except ironically the climax) where nature is mild and pleasurable. It is brutal and at odds with everything human. Janine somewhere above mentions some similarity to D.H. Lawrence. Yes, Ethan is taciturn and simple like some of Lawrence's characters, emotional and tied to natural cycles, but even where nature is brutal in Lawrence (and there are plenty of places) it is at least spiritual. I don't recall nature ever being spiritual here. The old world is not glorified here.

More points to come in future posts.

[SleepyWitch]

To present an eye witness looking in at Ethan up front does several things: it separates the world that Ethan lives in as opposed to the outside world; it introduces another's value judgement; it gives the story more foundation as fact; it brings the reader in as if to say, look at this weird guy (we've all have seen such weird guys), what's his story? If the story was told only from the weird guy's point of view, then we wouldn't have the contrast.

hello Uncle Virgil

yep, that's exactly what i thought, too. The narrator in the frame directly addresses the reader and draws his/her/their attention to Ethan.
If the story were told only by Ethan himself we might think "So what? what's this old fart on about? who cares about the story of his life?" but the narrator has already singled him out as an interesting person and makes us curious to learn more about him.

Wharton herself was unhappy with the frame but she couldn't think of any better way to do it.
Personally speaking, I don't like frames too much, but this particularly story would be a bit lame without the frame.

about the engineer-narrator... did he strike anyone else as a bit feminine?
i know he's supposed to be a male but to me he read like a female, especially because of his 'feminine gaze' (the way he describes Ethans face, takes an interest in a random male stranger, and is shy around him, particularly when they go to the train station on Ethans sleigh)

[Virgil]

Wharton herself was unhappy with the frame but she couldn't think of any better way to do it.
Personally speaking, I don't like frames too much, but this particularly story would be a bit lame without the frame.

Did she commet on it? I would like to read her thoughts on the structure. I doubt I'll have the time, but I would need to go to a research library and that's an hour a way in Manhatten for me.

about the engineer-narrator... did he strike anyone else as a bit feminine?
i know he's supposed to be a male but to me he read like a female, especially because of his 'feminine gaze' (the way he describes Ethans face, takes an interest in a random male stranger, and is shy around him, particularly when they go to the train station on Ethans sleigh)

I didn't get that sense. When I read it a second time I'll look for it. Perhaps you picked up Wharton's persona in the writing.

[SleepyWitch]

great... i wrote a reply to Virgil's post and my computer got stuck up and ate the post. now I'd have to write it all again...