Thesis for 'Pride and Prejudice' Versus 'Emma'

[Newcomer]

I find that the best understanding of Pride and Prejudice and of Emma lies in the titles chosen by Austen. The polysyllable one contrast with the abruptness of the other. In analogy of wine, the former is like Bordeaux while the latter is like Ice wine, picked when the frost has concentrated the flavor. Elizabeth is youth exploring possibilities while Emma is approaching spinsterhood without much understanding of her role in the Arcadian setting that is Austen's world. The scaffolding in both novels is marriage but the descriptive irony in Pride and Prejudice is structured on the minor characters while in Ema it is concentrated on the heroine herself. In Emma, Austen is surer of her skill, rarefies with a finer sieve.
Elizabeth is enchanting, mischievous and beloved by the majority of readers, while Emma is almost nasty. Both moderate their exuberance, marry older men of wealth. Cap their flowing hair with a mob cap and assume their place in the respectability and order that Austen sought as the English eden.

[mazz]

dear newcomer, did you really read what jbi or sciencefan wrote? They get it, you don't. Fine if you don't like the books but to me it seems you missed something and analyzed it sarcastically. Lizzie did not lose her exuberance and she was 20 and Darcy was only 28 or 29 I think, an older man ?? It's not about marriage it's about the journey. Or were you being funny?

[sciencefan]

I find that the best understanding of Pride and Prejudice and of Emma lies in the titles chosen by Austen. The polysyllable one contrast with the abruptness of the other.

That's a very interesting observation.

In analogy of wine, the former is like Bordeaux while the latter is like Ice wine, picked when the frost has concentrated the flavor. Elizabeth is youth exploring possibilities while Emma is approaching spinsterhood without much understanding of her role in the Arcadian setting that is Austen's world.

I didn't realize that Emma was so much older. I thought she was not married because she did not need the money.

The scaffolding in both novels is marriage

Ah yes. Austen shows us the very interesting ways the people of her times approached the idea of marriage.

but the descriptive irony in Pride and Prejudice is structured on the minor characters while in Emma it is concentrated on the heroine herself.

Since I have not read Emma recently, I did not remember this.

In Emma, Austen is surer of her skill, rarefies with a finer sieve.

I was unaware of this. I will pay closer attention to it next time I read it.

Elizabeth is enchanting, mischievous and beloved by the majority of readers, while Emma is almost nasty.

I did not remember this either. I have read that she is meddlesome. Is she like Elizabeth Bennett's mother in that way?

Both moderate their exuberance, marry older men of wealth. Cap their flowing hair with a mob cap and assume their place in the respectability and order that Austen sought as the English eden.

I did not get the impression that Elizabeth would ever be "tamed" to that extent. I think she has every intention of being true to herself. Neither do I think Darcy wants her to change.

I don't recall much about Emma, though recently reading other opinions that she was meddlesome in other people's affairs, and that she had learned a severe lesson and reformed, much in the same way Darcy did, one can only hope that Emma will stay reformed.

[Newcomer]

Dearest Mazz,
You may be correct 'that I don't get it' but I am ready to learn especially from a perspective from the Antipodes. And as to being sarcastic I certainly did not intend to maliciously laugh at someone, even simplest humor escapes me since like Mr. Collins I have to compose any witticisms in advance. I do not know Darcy's age, I would have guessed thirtyish, but then from my perspective anybody over sixteen is an older man. Would you not agree? Now if Darcy was sixteen, that would have been an interesting match!!! Why should Wickham have all the fun?
Hope to hear from you soon. In the meantime let's raise a glass of Shiraz to the Austen's ladies. Or do you prefer Yellow Tail?

[Newcomer]

.... sciencefan,
It would seem that I have a more pedantic than enthusiastic way of reading Austen: while I delight in Elizabeth and am amused by Emma, the novel itself is more interesting than the heroines. So I will defer in advance to your opinion as to the realism and emotional depth of the two young women. Only supposing that Austen was conscious of the contrasts and that the self awareness of her art had progressed, as I find Emma the more interesting novel.
I took Emma to be older than Elizabeth as she engages in meddling matchmaking, an occupation of an older woman such as Mrs Benett in P&P. But where Mrs. Benett is motherly, Emma is smugly self centered. She has an unpleasantly class conscious in her matchmaking. In the case of Harriet Smith, described as "the natural daughter of somebody" it is Emma's belief that Mr. Martin, a farmer, is beneath her, not quite a gentleman. In the case of Jane Fairfax, Emma, envies Jane Fairfax's talent and somewhat dislikes her. But the worst is when Emma thoughtlessly insult to Miss Bates and Mr. Knightley scolds her bad manners.
Of Emma, Austen wrote, "I am going to take a heroine whom no-one but myself will much like."

“I did not get the impression that Elizabeth would ever be "tamed" to that extent. I think she has every intention of being true to herself. Neither do I think Darcy wants her to change.”
I hope not ' Elizabeth would ever be "tamed”' but as Jane in the Wright's dramatization remarked – when some man catches your eye, you will have to tame your tongue. - only that, no more. Elizabeth in marriage, “Georgiana had the highest opinion in the world of Elizabeth; though at first she often listened with astonishment bordering on alarm at her lively, sportive manner of talking to her brother. He who had always inspired in her a respect which almost overcame her affection, she now saw the object of open pleasantry. Her mind received knowledge which had newer before fallen her way. By Elizabeth's instructions she began to comprehend that a woman may take liberties with her husband that a brother will not always allow in a sister more than ten years younger than himself.” Thus in Austen view marriage did not 'tame' Lizzy.
Pleased and grateful for your comments. Now to dinner of Boston baked beans. The pilgrims considered lobster as servant's food.

[mazz]

i have composed several responses but keep being rejected by this system am really ready for that glass of shiraz now, will test this before I try writing again

[mazz]

ah huh. thanks for the reply newcomer it is interesting getting other perspectives on a novel and from across the world too. I had an aunt who quizzed me on P&P so I know Darcy's age and his first name, which is....? As for being too old for me um.. nope. I've only read emma once because it was tedious, she wasn't nasty just naive. She wanted a purpose so set about matchmaking , being the daughter of wealth and nothing to do. See the movie Clueless for a modern take on this.