A thought on Evolution

[*Classic*Charm*]

My personal beliefs are a little different than anyone else's that I've read so far, so I'll put them out there and see what anyone thinks.

I believe that a person has an intangable aspect to themself- that is, a mind (not to be confused with a brain). It is this "mind" that gives us interests and what appeals to us. The mind is greater than everything else.

I believe that it really doesn't matter whether or not God, or anything along those lines, actaully exists. What matters is whether or not you want God to exist. I think that when a person dies, the mind is released from the control of the functioning brain, and it will create whatever scenario the person might have wanted. If that makes any sense; it's hard to describe what I mean.

So, it doesn't matter if a person believes in God or not. If they want God to exist, and they want to go to a fluffy white heaven, their mind will create that for them. If a person believes that when they die, they simply go back to the earth and that's it, than the mind will simply not create anything else for them.

In my case, I would like God to exist. I like the idea of there being a completely peaceful place to go when we are no longer people. So, my belief is that when I die, because that is what I want, my mind will create that for me. I suppose it sounds kind of selfish, but that's what I believe.

Any thoughts? I won't be offended...

[hyperborean]

That's a really interesting way of looking at things. You believe that the mind lives on after the bodies death, and our "afterlife" is whatever we perceive it to be...almost like a never ending dream after death.

[atiguhya padma]

Regarding the mind:

The mind and the brain are not so separable as you think. When someone suffers from something like senile dementia, or some accident that dramatically alters the brain, and thus the person, what do you think is happening to the mind? Senile dementia is a brain disease that creates changes in personality and mental ability. Scientists can create experiences, sensations, feelings, emotions, visions, thoughts, etc just by prodding areas of the brain. Theoretically, by taking parts of the brain away, you can change the characteristics of a person can't you? So what does that say about the mind? When you have a thought, it is always correlated with electrical activity in the brain. I really can't see that there is a place for a distinct entity called mind in the brain. Where could the mind reside outside a living body?

Furthermore, dualism is simply not defendable as far as I am aware. No-one has come up with an adequate description of how 'mind' interacts with brain. The mind is a unified experience created by the brain; it is an illusion, a sub-system of complex material processes.

I suggest you read Derek Parfit's account of mind in Reasons and Persons, or the more easily digestible account by John Gray in Straw Dogs, or Felipe Fernandez-Armesto's What Does It Mean To Be Human?

Regarding you view:

It sounds like a pragmatic point of view. The problem is, we might as well believe anything if it is of benefit to us. And if we did that, then our beliefs would be poorer for it. The value of belief would diminish.

[hyperborean]

The mind is a unified experience created by the brain; it is an illusion, a sub-system of complex material processes.

Very true. The mind and brain separation reminds me of Socrates' body - soul separation.

[Orionsbelt]

and yet ....

there appears to be something else.... if things were all just physical what happens when people pass on for what appears to be no physical reason. The cells all work... the chemistry is all good.. no major malfunctions in critical biological systems yet.. what? If it is all mechanical wouldn't things just continue? On the flip side... and not intending to be insenstive, where was Terri Schiavo while the courts where deliberating? or .... some trees return in the spring... some don't .... what changed?

[Wintermute]

Any thoughts? I won't be offended...

Hi Classic,

I think its a wonderful idea. I have two problems with it though. The first is physical--what is the medium for this existance? The brain cells are gone, no synapses are firing. Where does this happen? And my second problem may be related to my dim-witted imagination. But I'm unable to imagine anything or any scenario where I would be happy existing for eternity. I'd always get bored after the first trillion years or so...

[*Classic*Charm*]

Let me start off by saying that I'm still working out what entirely I believe- I'm young and I've only started to really explore my beliefs in depth recently. It was so much easier just to go along with what I was being taught!!

atiguhya padma:

I see what you're saying about how when the brain is damaged, so can be what I consider to be connected with the mind. I'll be quite honest with you and say that I haven't gone so far as to examine that to any great degree. I think, though, that while we are alive, our mind is controlled by our brain. It may have some creative input in our being (like I said, it gives us interests and what appeals to us), but while we are alive it is controlled by the brain. That's why while we're alive our brain cannot create a place for us like it can when we die if it creates a heaven or whatever it may be. While we are alive, our mind is subject to the chemical impulses and synapses of the brain. If the bain is damaged, the mind, too is altered. Let me emphasize my use of the word intangible. In this, I'm saying that the mind does not a require a place to reside.

It sounds like a pragmatic point of view. The problem is, we might as well believe anything if it is of benefit to us. And if we did that, then our beliefs would be poorer for it. The value of belief would diminish.

I'm not entirely sure of your meaning-please clarify!

And thank you for the reading suggestions, I'll definitely look into them!

Wintermute:

Thank you for your enthousiam! I haven't actaully suggested this belief to anyone until this thread. About your two conerns: Who are we kidding, I haven't worked out that whole physical part yet!! I'm thankful that everyone here has been pushing me to figure out what I mean! As for your not wanting to exist for eternity: I don't believe that you would have to!! If you thought that death would result in something other than permanent existance, than that is what your mind would create for you!

Thank you everyone who has replied!! Your comments will only help to push my mind further to decide what I truly believe. I'd love to hear more!

[smartblonde2010]

if you're dumb enough not to believe in evolution, I can see why talking snakes and trees might scare you.

who said christains are afraid of snakes and trees? your statement is blown completely out of porpotion.

[smartblonde2010]

So, my belief is that when I die, because that is what I want, my mind will create that for me.

Any thoughts? I won't be offended...

so your mind just does w/e you want it to? how can you explain that? if for a moment there isnt a God, then when you die you die. your mind doesnt stick around living out w/e fantasy you believe in. and God sure as heck isnt going to let you fantasize a heaven when you deserve to rot in hell.

[Redzeppelin]

so your mind just does w/e you want it to? how can you explain that? if for a moment there isnt a God, then when you die you die. your mind doesnt stick around living out w/e fantasy you believe in. and God sure as heck isnt going to let you fantasize a heaven when you deserve to rot in hell.

Eaaaaaaasy does it there, friend. I tend to be very careful putting the word "deserve" on the table in terms of God's judgment in connection with someone else I don't know. Take Classic's argument to task if you wish, but neither you nor I know the condition of his/her soul.

Welcome to the forums, by the way.

[*Classic*Charm*]

so your mind just does w/e you want it to? how can you explain that? if for a moment there isnt a God, then when you die you die. your mind doesnt stick around living out w/e fantasy you believe in. and God sure as heck isnt going to let you fantasize a heaven when you deserve to rot in hell.

Oh my, aren't we feisty!! I didn't mean to offend you or your beliefs (Seeing as I don't now what they are), but let's see here.

so your mind just does w/e you want it to? how can you explain that?

That's not what I said. While you're living, your mind is controlled by the chemical processes within your brain. That's why your mind doesn't simply whisk you off to somewhere else while your alive. Once you're dead, your brain is no longer functioning in control of your mind, leaving it free to create what it will. If while you were alive, you believed in God and everything that is a part of that faith, your mind will allow that to happen. This isn't saying that this can change whenever it wants- you won't be in heaven one day and then in a completely different situation the next. There has to be great faith and resolve when you're alive for this to occur after.

if for a moment there isnt a God

I never said that there wasn't a God. I said that I believe that it doesn't matter whether or not there is a physical nature to God.

your mind doesnt stick around living out w/e fantasy you believe in. and God sure as heck isnt going to let you fantasize a heaven when you deserve to rot in hell

Firstly, I might suggest that you cannot say that your mind "doesn't stick around" after your death, the same way I may not say there's no fluffy white heaven. Neither you nor I have experienced death, so I will not think so highly of myself to say that anything "is" or "is not" after we die. Secondly, I don't think that I would call it a fantasy. For example, for a person who believes in God, when they die, their mind will create that for them. So in your statement, based on my theory, you're calling someone's belief in God a "fantasy". Finally, in the same situation, if a person believes in heaven and hell, and deserves to go to hell, then that's where said person will end up. If he or she does not believe in that, their afterlife (or not) will be different. As for your final statement, it does not apply to my beliefs if you've read through them clearly.

BTW, welcome to the litnet!

And thank you, Redzeppelin, as always.

[The Atheist]

Neither you nor I have experienced death, so I will not think so highly of myself to say that anything "is" or "is not" after we die.

Goodo!

Once you're dead, your brain is no longer functioning in control of your mind, leaving it free to create what it will.

[The Atheist]

Eaaaaaaasy does it there, friend. I tend to be very careful putting the word "deserve" on the table in terms of God's judgment in connection with someone else I don't know. Take Classic's argument to task if you wish, but neither you nor I know the condition of his/her soul.

Welcome to the forums, by the way.

Even as a n00b myself, I'll echo the comments welcoming a smart blonde!

I think smart may have been using a second person "you" rather than suggesting Classic deserved to go to hell. Godly/ungodly, there are some people we all agree deserve to go to hell. Stalin, anyone?

[billyjack]

That's a really interesting way of looking at things. You believe that the mind lives on after the bodies death, and our "afterlife" is whatever we perceive it to be...almost like a never ending dream after death.

the movie "waking life" suggest this possiblity. its the scene when ethan hawke and some gal are laying in bed talking. or maybe its when somebody is watching t.v. anyways, its there.

and this topic is intersting. my input is this: belief in an afterlife is fine. brain studies of people who have come "near death" show that the happening which usually consist of a "white light" is associated with part of the memory cortex (meaning our last consciounce activity before death is remembering our idea of what death "should be like".) take that for what its worth.

when i see people claiming that they've "figured out or faithed out" what happens after death, i think that is fine and dandy. but, this "figuring out" of the afterlife is often accompanied with testimony of the all powerful god outlining rules for this life. this is when i raise an eyebrow.

[Wintermute]

. . .but, this "figuring out" of the afterlife is often accompanied with testimony of the all powerful god outlining rules for this life. this when i raise an eyebrow.

Yeah Billyjack, I does give one pause--particularly when its asking for 10% (or is it 15%) of my income.